If you are a ‘professionally accomplished’ woman, how do you meet men?

[ElleintheWoods]

Just to pre-empt, I don’t think ‘success’ (titles, possessions and other things society sees as such) matters and everyone is the same. However, more and more, men and people in my life seem to highlight that it still does matter in today’s society.

In my 20s I was a top 10 university graduate working in corporate London with HNWIs, so I used to think everyone was like that and that was normal life (young and naïve, sorry!). I’ve had 2 significant long-term relationships (5+ years) and a few shorter but still serious and enjoyable ones. Never really had bad experiences with men.

I then took a step back and moved to the countryside. I’m quite a friendly and bubbly person. However, I’ve found that men see me as a bit of an alien once they get to know my background. I play my background down a lot now that I’ve found it can alienate people, but obviously things do come out once you get to know someone/ people have Google. I was in a long-term relationship with a mechanic and he would make ‘how the other half live’ comments as a joke regularly. He was also ashamed of his house and family initially. I’ve also had the ‘why would someone like you want to be with someone like me’ comment from more than one guy. Frustratedly, I asked a male friend why guys like him don’t pursue me even though they seem interested and he said ‘I’d feel like I’m punching a bit/ long-term I’d feel lesser than you’.

So it seems that although I was open to dating anyone, it doesn’t seem many men are open to dating a woman who is more professionally accomplished than them. I’m also from Denmark where ‘class/ background’ generally is a lot less at the forefront of people’s minds and it’s common for women to be dominant.

Then I met someone who seemed perfect. Committed to the mission of using his skills to improve people’s lives, had worked abroad like me, on the board of a household name company, very varied interests, deep thinker, similar childhood experiences. We had what I’d regard as the perfect relationship – theatre, shows, weekends away attending cultural events and exploring new places, good food, talking about ideas, philosophy, politics... I could be fully myself around him and share the same values. My favourite moment in our relationship was a few weeks in when he had a huge presentation at work and he called me afterwards and talked about it for an hour – it may sound boring but I knew then this was someone I could relate to. It also made me feel close to him that I was the one he wanted to share his accomplishment with.

Ultimately it did not work out but it got me thinking... I felt much more ‘at home’ with someone like that than where I had tried to force a relationship with someone very different and had to lock away parts of myself to fit in with their family and friends. So maybe it’s just easier for me to try dating men who aren’t ashamed to be ambitious and want to make a difference in society, and who like arts, classical music etc

So 2 questions to the thread:
1. If you are ‘professionally successful’, how do you feel that affects your personal life?
2. Where have you met men that pique your interest/ you’ve settled down with?

I am a senior academic. I met my DH in my mid-30s after my college LTR ended. We met OLD. He has a much lower level of education than me on paper but went back to earn a degree in his early 40s which I really admired. THis sounds daft but what also helped is that 1. he is short so got filtered out of a lot of OLD searches and 2. worked odd hours so wouldn't have gelled with someone with a standard office job. He is kind and well informed and ready to try new things, which counts for a lot in my book.

100% agree with this , I know a couple of single divorced men with kids who are absolutely not looking to date women who are looking to start a family of their own, they certainly don’t want Young kids again

50% of marriages end in divorce though, don't they? Statistically it's not as bad as people make it sound, just a smaller, more time-constrained pool. I had that 'nice guy, met in our 20s' type of relationship, and the woman that gets to be with him is a lucky one - but he's still single despite being fit, socially active and a high earner in tech, with good morals and values. Women aren't queueing up to be with those guys.

I feel like the men have similar hang-ups after their first 'big' relationship blows up. Just looking at my single male friends who are well-qualified high earners... Some of the things I hear...
'All women just want to date the 10% of attractive, rounded guys'
'I'm afraid of getting hurt again'
'I'm afraid of hurting her feelings with the way I am'
'She'll dump me once she gets to know the real me'
'I'm quite a particular character so I can't imagine the type of woman that would get me'
'All the good ones are in relationships already'

Add to that body image issues, worries about their bank balance/ assets not being in 7 figures etc.

Seems like everyone carries baggage and is scared things won't work out, men and women.

I know I got friendzoned not because I'm unattractive or a terrible person. I know he likes me a lot, but because he's totally terrified of some of the above. Sadly I predict a year from now him and several other men I'm thinking about here will still be single, still be texting me most days and meeting for drinks, and still not having the confidence to 'go get the girl'.

I'm not really sure what the answer is to be honest.

I'm glad you're optimistic and wish you all the best with the holiday events. I have a smoking hot LBD and blow dries lined up for December, and hope at least somebody nice and kind and not self-obsessed has the balls to be more forward with me than just chatting.

@ElleintheWoods - the 50% statistics doesn’t really hold true for high earners/professional men in my experience. I reckon it is more like 10-15% max since the women who are married to them aren’t letting them go, no matter what! I have a few hundred people I am fairly familiar with in my industry that I have known for around 10 years and I can count those that have been divorced on one hand. At work there are a reasonable number of men in their 40s-50s and I’ve only encountered two 40s divorcees who are living life to the fullest on OLD or with their 25 year old analysts. My friends are architects and I keep pestering them to introduce me to any divorcees and they could only come up with one or two got coupled up before they managed to introduce us.

Love your plans for a smoking hot December! Enjoy! We will live vicariously through your stories!

Thanks for your posts. Agree with this: So, again, it's not always "successful men will choose younger" - especially if they already have kids.

I'd say men that lack self-esteem often choose younger. And I don't mean men who haven't achieved a lot, I mean men who want to impress everyone with their job title, car, body... A lot of high achievers have issues, they often aren't at ease and comfortable with themselves.

To be honest at the moment the 'meeting men' part isn't too much of a challenge, I seem to have that routine nailed.

A few things that seem to work for me:

• Office - ok, so that one hasn't worked out so well! But men from around the building I have nothing to do with come up to me and introduce themselves. I've found this happens more often on a good hair and smart dress day. Unfortunately only one of them ever interested me, and that's exactly how we met, he saw me and started trying to talk to me
• Gym/swim club - I attend one with a bigger social aspect than most, so a lot of the members see each other and chat. Mostly speak to familiar faces in th sauna, one guy more than others, but nobody of real interest
• Book launches/ debate and political events/ book stores - yet to come across anyone I'd like in those, but I might start going more again. Been approached a few times but not by the types of guys I'd see romantically
• Car parks! - hear me out. Drive an unusual car so men do sometimes approach me to talk about cars
• Conferences and events - it does work, last one I attended I exchanged numbers with 2 guys. However I do find the men in my industry either really stuffy or big-headed or a bit sleazy. They all look a bit interchangable and usually very materially driven (finance/ accounting)
• Working in hotels/ pubs/ restaurants when wfh - again, at times you get chatting with someone, so may do that more
• Generally out and about - trains, shops, services... If you don't look like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders, generally conversations may start. Recently met someone in an airport for example

OLD - I wouldn't do again. The concept just doesn't sit right with me. I'll be totally honest, I'd love to go on right now and get validation from guys and chat with a few cos I feel down and think 'how can he not want to be with me?' I'm a bit broken and would love a pick-me-up - and knowing what I'd use it for, I exect other users to have a mixed bag of similar motives. In my experience the guys I've met on there have all had some big unaddressed hangups, despite being nice people. My chats with men on there have almost been like offering free counselling at times. I'd rather get to know someone slowly and properly, I can't make up my mind about someone after 2-3 'dates'.

Thank you. Yes, you're right as to your last point, I am sore. I'm not really going to try to find out what and why on his side, there's no point.

When we first met he was so nervous around me he barely spoke and couldn't finish his food. Then it gradually got a lot better to the point where he admitted he really liked me and eventually asked me out. We have a few close mutual friends and they were hugely cheering for us and went 'phew, finally, get together already, so the rest of us can get a coffee without having to listen to you 2 flirt'.

I feel like it's a few things with him. He's junior to me at work and I'm paid lots more, so he's very openly self-conscius about that. He's been getting stick at work for hanging around me a lot, too. A bit younger than me.

Mostly though I think it's a life stage thing. He's had a difficult few years, lost a well-paid senior job, had to scale down his lifestyle a lot, hasn't had a serious relationship for a while. I can see why - his self-esteem's taken a big hit.

So, you've been out of the game a while and then a woman who's 'got her life together' makes it very obvious she's interested. I think it's 'fight or flight'. He's definitey had jitters before but I truly think it's done now.

I just remember our last long conversation and how he was asking me about things I'd done, family, qualifications, past relationships, what my friends do. And to almost everything he brought an example that said 'this is very different, we haven't had the same opportunities, we don't have the same background'.

Or it could be that the lightning of the room was very unflattering to my face and that did it 😂

I just wish he saw the person that I see when I look at him - but you're right in that you cannot fix others or change their way of thinking. They need to be at ease with themselves and find confidence in who they are, and feel comfortable with the dating choices they make.

Sorry for delayed response.
I think as we both come from a similar working class background that helped.
Although our careers had moved in completely different directions we shared a lot of common ground and values. He loves that I am so accomplished but haven't forgotten my roots. I love that he is an excellent communicator and can be at ease with anyone.

It's a bit of a cliche but the male ego can be extremely fragile. It sounds like he's had quite a few setbacks in his life that have stopped him being the person that deep down he wants to be (which is probably why you see flashes of it!), and your success and status is bringing out those insecurities. The other thing that might be bothering him is the famous-ish ex (you mentioned that on this thread, right?) - for some reason this can REALLY bother a lot of men. But again, this is a good filter for you if this is a problem.

The main thing to remember is that it's not you, there's nothing wrong with you, and you don't have to change who you are or hide what you've done. I definitely empathise with your experience as I am the husband of a Nordic woman (I gravitated from the parenting board to this one!) and a lot of what you've said about British class consciousness, difference in dating/approaching culture etc really rings true and is something even more pronounced outside of London. I really hope things work out for you as you sound like such a nice person and I am now invested in this thread!

Thank you 😊 Yes, I agree with your sentiments and think you’ve hit the nail on the head. I don’t think he’s in a secure place/ doesn’t love himself at the moment and instead of making him feel good/secure/happy around me, things I say in passing make him overthink and worry. Does that sound about right?

Yes, I can imagine the famous ex issue can trigger yet more insecurities. Can you elaborate? If I met a guy whose ex was, say Kelly Brook, I’d probably go into my head too, especially if I’m feeling insecure already.

I feel a bit sad about it all. I’m confident we’ll stay good friends because we get on so well. In fact I have a good number of good straight male friends that take me for coffees, lunches, check in with me a few times a week etc, help me with significant things, talk to me about their problems etc… So I’m probably gaining yet another 🙄 Why is nobody trying to sleep with me and every man just wants to be my friend?

Now I’m curious, what do you think are the biggest differences with the Scandi dating/ relationship culture? As I feel there are quite a few!

I married for love. I met my DH through a shared sport. He is intelligent but profoundly dyslexic which when he was at school unrecognised. He was labelled and just gave up on education. He has a gift of analysis and in a different world would have done well in an analysis job. He was a natural athlete and talented footballer but a catastrophic knee injury meant he was never able to follow his dream. He was being scouted for a professional career when he had his accident.
Footballs loss was my gain because we never have met
I’m a dentist and with his encouragement and support I had the confidence to buy my own practice. When I had fertility problems he accepted that we may never have children. When my miracle DS was born he has been a great father.
He has had a lot of criticism and accusations that he married me for my money. In actual fact he is the saver and the cautious one so we are now in a good position financially as we embark on retirement.
He worked hard for 40yrs and when I needed to work full time, gave up work to become a house husband. We are best friends.
We have both had serious health problems lately but we muddle along.

I think the secret is not to find a “suitable” partner, but one that balances your life. It’s easy to end up with a very small pool of available men based on educational and financial criteria. A few of my contemporaries have divorced over the years and re entered the dating game with much more open minds and ended up with men who they would never considered when they were younger.

Compatibility is not dependent on education. You have to share so much more to make a good life partnership. DH and I had a shared love of the outdoors and sport. We love spending hours in museums. Our taste in music is similar and enjoy the same films. We are both avid readers, although I can read five books in the same time it takes DH to read one. We also respect the fact that we have separate interests and allow each other space. There are always compromises, DH is not keen on big social get togethers. If truth be known I suffer with social anxiety but could put on an act. It’s quite a relief not to have to “keep up” with the social set.

We can talk for hours and DH loves the fact I’m a mind of useless information, like mr he has an enquiring mind and is always open to a different point of view.

We have been together for 30 yrs and although life has changed recently I am still happy.

I think you are right everyone has baggage by mid-thirties, thing is, men often think that this means they can take their time about sorting it out. Many women, especially if they want to have children or at least that option, don't have that time. By mid-forties these men realise they don't have that time because most of the nice women have settled down, and then they try to find a mid-thirties person to settle down with quickly, so they can be like their friends.

It's a very odd game.

I love hearing about everyone's successful matches and it's reminding me to keep my own mind open.

I think if a man (or a person) is prone to insecurity, the idea that you would be comparing him to previous partners can come up as an issue anyway, and this would be exacerbated if the partner in question is well known (this is just a personal theory but I think in general men get a lot more jealous of other men's life status and position than women do). But to be honest people who struggle with insecurity will find any aspect of their partner as a proxy to display it, whether that's a previous partner, a salary, a masters degree, or whatever, which is why being partnered with someone chronically insecure is really exhausting as you're always being tested and waiting to say the wrong thing. It's a shame you're drifting towards friends with this guy, but in my experience insecurity has a habit of getting worse over time and you may have found yourself suffocated in a relationship anyway...

Regarding the dating cultures, I found it's mainly the stereotypical things really - more direct communication and women being more likely to make the first move. The other thing I realised is that the Scandi women I've met really don't go in for the playing down of their own intelligence that some British women can do, and for British men used to women trying to hide their intelligence and achievements that could come off as quite intimidating. But the class/background consciousness and the fact that two different people from the same city could be judged and placed in a social box by their accent is a big one - my wife really couldn't get her head around that when she first moved to the UK

@Angrymum22 This is such a lovely story. Sounds like you have a really good balance. I’m the same, when I was 21 I wouldn’t have ever considered a guy without a degree, probably not even one that went to a ‘lesser’ university, or who didn’t work in a very exciting job. I was just brought up to see that as normal - parents are quite snobbish. I had a very narrow idea of who I should date.

Whereas now I just want someone that intrigues me, provided they don’t have concerning baggage - eg I went on a date with someone that didn’t see their kids and things like that are a no.

To illustrate that point, I only found out recently that the fella I was seeing didn’t have a degree, and I still don’t know what his parents do - and that’s a few months into knowing him. I really don’t care.

@YRGAM He’s certainly an interesting one. He’s generally very confident and looks and dresses very well, but crumbles around me, I think I just bring his insecurities out at times.

Very interesting observations here!! Two things I do from there. Definitely comfortable making the first move, if I’m into someone they’ll know. Also I may come off competitive - if the guy says ‘I went to Yale’ I’ll say ‘I went to Harvard’. I try to be more modest and hide things, but when someone asks specifically about my achievements, I’ll be direct and proud. In Scandinavia a woman’s achievements/ independence are generally seen as positive.

It’s also more common to not consider class/ wealth/ success so much in dating and for men to be really comfortable and proud of powerful women, so that’s a bit of a culture shock, even after all my time in the UK.