If you are a ‘professionally accomplished’ woman, how do you meet men?

[ElleintheWoods]

Just to pre-empt, I don’t think ‘success’ (titles, possessions and other things society sees as such) matters and everyone is the same. However, more and more, men and people in my life seem to highlight that it still does matter in today’s society.

In my 20s I was a top 10 university graduate working in corporate London with HNWIs, so I used to think everyone was like that and that was normal life (young and naïve, sorry!). I’ve had 2 significant long-term relationships (5+ years) and a few shorter but still serious and enjoyable ones. Never really had bad experiences with men.

I then took a step back and moved to the countryside. I’m quite a friendly and bubbly person. However, I’ve found that men see me as a bit of an alien once they get to know my background. I play my background down a lot now that I’ve found it can alienate people, but obviously things do come out once you get to know someone/ people have Google. I was in a long-term relationship with a mechanic and he would make ‘how the other half live’ comments as a joke regularly. He was also ashamed of his house and family initially. I’ve also had the ‘why would someone like you want to be with someone like me’ comment from more than one guy. Frustratedly, I asked a male friend why guys like him don’t pursue me even though they seem interested and he said ‘I’d feel like I’m punching a bit/ long-term I’d feel lesser than you’.

So it seems that although I was open to dating anyone, it doesn’t seem many men are open to dating a woman who is more professionally accomplished than them. I’m also from Denmark where ‘class/ background’ generally is a lot less at the forefront of people’s minds and it’s common for women to be dominant.

Then I met someone who seemed perfect. Committed to the mission of using his skills to improve people’s lives, had worked abroad like me, on the board of a household name company, very varied interests, deep thinker, similar childhood experiences. We had what I’d regard as the perfect relationship – theatre, shows, weekends away attending cultural events and exploring new places, good food, talking about ideas, philosophy, politics... I could be fully myself around him and share the same values. My favourite moment in our relationship was a few weeks in when he had a huge presentation at work and he called me afterwards and talked about it for an hour – it may sound boring but I knew then this was someone I could relate to. It also made me feel close to him that I was the one he wanted to share his accomplishment with.

Ultimately it did not work out but it got me thinking... I felt much more ‘at home’ with someone like that than where I had tried to force a relationship with someone very different and had to lock away parts of myself to fit in with their family and friends. So maybe it’s just easier for me to try dating men who aren’t ashamed to be ambitious and want to make a difference in society, and who like arts, classical music etc

So 2 questions to the thread:
1. If you are ‘professionally successful’, how do you feel that affects your personal life?
2. Where have you met men that pique your interest/ you’ve settled down with?

But the ‘real you’ includes your education levels and income. If you are continually dating men who would prefer a girlfriend who had fewer degrees and earned less, that’s just not going to work. You clearly don’t think it matters because it doesn’t matter to you, but it clearly matters to the type of men you’re dating. Is it completely impossible to find dates of equivalent ‘status’?

"Is it completely impossible to find dates of equivalent ‘status"
In short. Yes once past your mid 30s.
Because these guys date women who are younger and better looking.
Your choice as a woman is then to look for an older man or give up completely.
It's not about being a snob. It's about realising that as soon as the relationship gets going, a guy who is less qualified, and who earns less than you will start to feel emasculated and then end the relationship abruptly. So why waste the energy?
I sound like a downer but it's just pragmatism. If you're lucky enough to pair up with a man in your 20s at university, and you pick a good one, then that's how it mostly goes.

Dating an older man might work for women in their 20s and 30s but it most definitely does not work for me in my late 40s.
I've been married and had kids but I'm resigned now.

I struggled with this at certain points in my life as the male ego is very fragile and some men just don't like a woman who earn more than them or is more successful.
I am truly happy now with my fiancé who I met on Tinder. He has a true inner self confidence which is super attractive to me. Whilst I am more academic , he is much smarter than me in many other areas - particularly practical things. He is also very curious about nature, technology , travel etc.
I deal with C level professional people all day and actually enjoy being with someone who is more laid back. He calms me hugely and we have the best laughs and chemistry.
Sometimes it's just about clicking with the right person. But I think he needs to be very secure in himself and share the same values and outlook on life .

Sorry to read you're still struggling with this kind of attitude from men. Did the conversation about him not being on your level come in the context of a potential date, or was it just a general statement from him? If it's the latter, I'm wondering if he just wouldn't think you'd be interested in him - might be worth a direct approach...

@MySweet it's not that I continually try to date guys with lower income and less qualifications, which, like I said, don't matter to me. I don't really go round with a checklist and date lots of people/ 'look' for a man, I notice people that intrigue me and that I click with. I met this guy IRL and wasn't looking for anything, we just started talking more and more, really clicked, he was the first guy in a long time that made feel something very different and special. Just different backrounds by sheer chance.

@Autumnblackberries I can't comment how it changes with age as I'm mid 30s. I imagine some men may be tempted by the young ones. In my circle, it tends to be high earners of the intellectual type, and they're very much 'I'd sleep with someone much younger, but I can't imagine a LTR with someone in their 20s'. Some men have dated 10 years younger and say they wouldn't do it again, find the generational differences/ life stages too incompatible. Also they worry about how they'd be perceived.

2 men from my circle certainly have options but have chosen to date slightly older women and are very proud of their partners/ talk about them with a sparkle in their eye.

I know the 'I want to date much younger women' brigade exists, but I wouldn't want to date someone that has these kinds of values. Everyone's looks fade, there's got to be more that holds people together.

It's feasible to date someone with equivalent qualifications and earnings, but above all I want someone who's a good person with good values and excites me. A lot of the 'accomplished' men want to talk about work so much it gets dull, a lot of their self-esteem is tied to their career and achievements.

@Kyogo67 really feeling your comment. Was there any akwardness in the early stages of dating/ did you ever discuss those differences?

@YRGAM he knew me quite well before any dating and actually seemed very interested in my career before anything romantic between us - we're in the same industry. Last time we went out, he quizzed me a lot about effectively my CV, past life, dating history came into it a bit as I've dated someone well-known and it comes up on search. After that conversation things really shifted between us.

In finance/law, there are a fair few couples where the man is let’s say mid to late 30s and the woman is mid to late 20s, not to mention the 40 year divorcees dating trainees or women on the grad scheme (less common). Two friends - mid 30s- had crushes on their male colleagues who went on to have a serious relationship with women in their 20s whom they met at work. So I think my friends certainly feel left out by the professional men they work with/meet IRL.

As someone in my 40s, I don’t even dare think about dating someone in finance/law as those men are typically, like me, at the peak of their career and attracting women from late 20s to 50s - and plenty of them are professional and accomplished. And that leaves no other choice given what you’ve already observed with your work crush - trying to date someone who is outside of my professional world is really challenging if not impossible!

You’re making it sound a bit like the stereotypes are true! In my head, people in finance/ corp law/ other fields where earnings/ reputation/ ego are a big driver are perhaps, in my head, a little more that way inclined. I used to be in entertainment/ media for a long time and it was obviously very looks/ age oriented there, big age gaps. I never found ‘my people’ there in terms of dating, it all seemed so externally oriented.

At work I tolerate these kinds of guys but outside of work I wouldn’t go anywhere near them. The men I’m properly close to just look for something different - genuine emotional connection and trust first, being able to hold their own in complex debates. Frankly I can’t imagine any of them with a perfectly manicured 20-something gf. Who knows what happens when they turn 50 though 😂

I also don’t think of dating in terms of leagues and 1-10 though, and I guess some people do. I don’t really care what a man brings to the table in terms of looks/ career/ status/ money/ … I have everything I need already, all I’d really like is someone I’m very attracted to who intrigues me and who’s a good person with good values and a compatible lifestyle.

The guy I’ve just said goodbye to… The kindest person ever (with waiting staff and animals), such broad range in terms of conversation topics, really considerate of others, so respectful, never had an issue with saying ‘sorry, I was wrong’, honest, funny, savvy, and so hot… They do still make them like that!

Right, I need to stop using internet forums to try mend a broken heart 🙈😂

I wrote this yesterday on another thread:

"There are a few good men around, however they don't make it out of their 20's still single, and no woman is giving them up easily.

Now in my early 40's, with 2 DC's and been single for 3 years I've accepted it's unlikely I will meet a decent guy to settle down with. It's clear that there are just too few good men to go around."

When I add in that I work at Director level, earn a high salary and have lots of solid qualifications, I can't see it happening organically.

I've been attending more professional events lately which men of a similar level attend (finance/property/law). These events have been good as I am able to say what I do without a man keeling over in shock/awe.

However even at these events the men in their 40's and over and unmarried (glancing from a ring perspective) seem to gravitate towards the early 30's women. Hopefully continuing with attending those types of things into the Christmas season might yield more positive results 🤞🤞🤞

2 men from my circle certainly have options but have chosen to date slightly older women and are very proud of their partners/ talk about them with a sparkle in their eye.

I know a woman who ended an ltr with an older man and then met a millionaire business-man at speed dating ...they coupled up and had a child quickly.

She was mid 30s, maybe even late 30s - he was around 40.

So I don't agree with that poster either that every single man in his late 30s/40s chooses younger women.

I think if they fancy the woman and hit it off with her, they' may go for mid 30s and above (if they're not the ageist type).

I also know a divorced architect who was single for quite a while, and then when he settled - he chose a 30s single Mum.

And he had plenty of options.

But clearly they hit it off and were on the same wave length.

That example proves the point of this thread though surely @HazelPlayer
He went for someone he can rescue/provide for no?

In fact for late 30s onwards divorced and separated men, who often already have kids and may not want more; younger women - if they don't have any kids yet - often want their own kids. Some men will go along with that, some men really won't.

I'd say the reason the architect I mentioned above chose a single Mum (with a not very young child) was that she already had a child and he didn't want to go back to the baby and young child stage.

So, again, it's not always "successful men will choose younger" - especially if they already have kids.

Which example?

I gave two examples (of men choosing mid to late 30s women when the could have chosen any age).

Op, what activities and hobbies would the sort of man you want to meet be doing?

I'm thinking of activities that are male dominated and that may have more educated etc people in my experience;

Sailing.
(And theory courses).

Climbing, bouldering.

Tennis is usually half and half.

Photography courses.

Maybe language courses (might be more females).

Any meet-up in their interest. My friend met her partner through a meet up group (in Germany).

Lots of men are into running, triathlons and cycling.
You could volunteer in if you don't want to participate.

Conferences and events in male dominated industries.

Gym.

Old can be very shit but at least most (?) people are single, whereas at hobby groups etc it's probably minority (sometimes none).

So keep both going.

It needs to be a multi pronged approach.

(And I do know people who met their spouses and LT partners through old).

@Starseeking - your observations are absolutely spot on. I have now been observing this for the last ten years and whilst I thought that there might be a few more divorcees once I hit my 40s they are interested in my single 30s friends. Good luck with the Christmas season events!
@HazelPlayer - this is a list of great suggestions but I would say having tried a lot of them for 10+ years with no results, there are few single men at this events over the age of 30- lots of 20s and then 50-60s. This is also true for my local running clubs, the gym and my friend’s tennis club. Language and similar courses and even meet up groups tend to predominantly female. I have also tried golf/golf lessons, cooking classes, wine tasting/courses, art courses, every industry event or conference. Social padel has taken off recently so my friends and I are going to try a singles event soon.
@ElleintheWoods - sending lots of virtual hugs!!!

@HazelPlayer - that might be the case if they are way older (late 40s/50s) or involved in childcare etc but the men I mentioned are in their late 30s/one is 40, have kids and they are still interested in women in their 20s. As high earners they don’t seem to mind having another child with another very high earning partner who can afford a full time nanny, maternity nurse etc so having to do it all again doesn’t seem to bad as the price to pay for having a younger partner.
I appreciate I am talking about 1% of the population so not particularly representative at all but my three single friends - early to mid 30s- also had a crush on a former colleague of mine (banker) who was married young to a yoga teacher, got divorced in his early to mid 30s and before his divorce was even final for couples up with a late 20s lawyer. My friends were again pretty devastated as they didn’t even found out he was single before he got coupled up again.

Old can be very shit but at least most (?) people are single, whereas at hobby groups etc it's probably minority (sometimes none)

@HazelPlayer this is such a good point that is overlooked on most dating advice threads, which is you can attend all the groups you like, but you don't know who is single and you can hardly go around trying to find them. Once over 50 (as I am), it's like a needle in a haystack. So OLD is awful, but it does at least provide people most of whom (apart from the married ones) might be single.

I wouldn't say it's a desert out there. I didn't want to date finance guys at all, lived in London, didn't want to date media guys either so I'm with you on that. I joined a dating agency back in the day, I don't know if they even still have those, and went on many dates with interesting people I simply wouldn't have come across, all professional good-looking men but also interested in settling down for the most part.

I don't think they do those any more or they are very expensive, but it was worth it, both me and the girl friend I joined with met and married partners from there.

OP, I think you are feeling a bit sore about this latest guy and rightly so, it's horrible to think something has legs and for it to go wrong again. It may not be though just about your different educational background, it might just be something about him and his relationship style you can't fix. I hope it works out for you though, or that if not, you are able to move on pretty quickly and meet someone lovely as you sound like a person with a lot to offer.

there are few single men at this events over the age of 30- lots of 20s and then 50-60s

Have you seen in densely populated areas or less densely populated?

I found similar but I'm in a rural ish, slightly parochial backwater of the UK

I did however come across a single divorced guy at kayaking - he was keen but unfortunately I wasn't interested or attracted enough back to date, for various reasons. And I did meet a widowed nan with a family at Sailing. Dated for over a year but unfortunately didn't work out (he was one of those men who describes himself as traditional but it actually chauvinist, controlling etc. His eldest dd was also antagonistic, and apparently had also been to his previous partners, it was unpleasant).

But, though in small numbers, there are some single ones occasionally. And you only need one.

Want predominantly male dominated hobby group suggestions ?
In my experience lots of men & few women

Any car & motorbike rallies, car auctions, jumbles, races, groups, charity fund raising runs, social events

Scuba diving groups which include have social meet ups UK & abroad

Sailing, fishing clubs

Well I was just saying they I know of at least two off the top if my head who didn't go for women in their 20s or even early 30s.

The first guy was around 40 and chose a 36/37 yr old. They had one child and I'm not sure if they'd had more since.

The second guy was in his 40s and chose a 30 something. (One child each and haven't had any together).

And I agree that very high earning individuals may be fine with more kids due to no cost worries ....but as you say; most people are not high earning.
There's also the fact that some men, esp the ones who actually pulled their weight, know exactly what the baby, toddler and young child phase is like and really do not want to return to it.

I’m professionally accomplished (Exec Director at large STEM global company). I’m also autistic, work from home and a big family bod. I am a nerd and I struggle with burnout. My goal in post divorce dating was to find a guy who would love and support me rather than someone equally career driven who was changing the world and listening to Bach. It took some weeding out but I got there via Bumble. Being clear on what I wanted, having firm boundaries and being totally open about my pros and cons (I’m lovely but a bit emotionally high maintenance) really helped pick off the not for me guys.

That’s my experience, but I would say it was in large part mandated by them having children from their previous marriage, and not wanting a longterm relationship with a younger woman who was likely to want a child with them.

Op the other thing is population/statistics.

London, apparently, has more women than men.

Meanwhile there are areas of Canada that have vastly more men than women. Some might be in more manual jobs but you don't seem to mind that so ..

I think the areas around Silicone Valley are also male heavy.

A few hundred years ago, women got on ships to Oz to get husbands. Economics may be different (women have a million more opportunities to earn than then) but "go where the men are, instead of where there are 50-50 men or less" still applies.

@SpringleDingle - very intrigued to hear about how you found him via Bumble - is he in a completely different field/without any professional qualifications/age gap? I have tied it off and on for five years with no luck - the men I met weren’t at all in law/finance or similar field as I tried hard to avoid the types of people I work with, but nonetheless I didn’t meet anyone who wasn’t looking for casual sex with someone much younger and I genuinely don’t seem to fancy people who are 6-10 years older and who’ve not aged well, which is another topic of itself.

had a crush on a former colleague of mine (banker) who was married young to a yoga teacher, got divorced in his early to mid 30s and before his divorce was even final for couples up with a late 20s lawyer. My friends were again pretty devastated as they didn’t even found out he was single before he got coupled up again.

Given the sheer volume of people who cheat and "monkey branch" I'd say the lawyer was probably a reason for the divorce (?)

So maybe they shouldn't have been so devastated about not having an opportunity with him.

(Anyway, 3 friends all fancying the same man and wanting an opportunity with him; sounds like that would've worked out well (!))