If you are a ‘professionally accomplished’ woman, how do you meet men?

[ElleintheWoods]

Just to pre-empt, I don’t think ‘success’ (titles, possessions and other things society sees as such) matters and everyone is the same. However, more and more, men and people in my life seem to highlight that it still does matter in today’s society.

In my 20s I was a top 10 university graduate working in corporate London with HNWIs, so I used to think everyone was like that and that was normal life (young and naïve, sorry!). I’ve had 2 significant long-term relationships (5+ years) and a few shorter but still serious and enjoyable ones. Never really had bad experiences with men.

I then took a step back and moved to the countryside. I’m quite a friendly and bubbly person. However, I’ve found that men see me as a bit of an alien once they get to know my background. I play my background down a lot now that I’ve found it can alienate people, but obviously things do come out once you get to know someone/ people have Google. I was in a long-term relationship with a mechanic and he would make ‘how the other half live’ comments as a joke regularly. He was also ashamed of his house and family initially. I’ve also had the ‘why would someone like you want to be with someone like me’ comment from more than one guy. Frustratedly, I asked a male friend why guys like him don’t pursue me even though they seem interested and he said ‘I’d feel like I’m punching a bit/ long-term I’d feel lesser than you’.

So it seems that although I was open to dating anyone, it doesn’t seem many men are open to dating a woman who is more professionally accomplished than them. I’m also from Denmark where ‘class/ background’ generally is a lot less at the forefront of people’s minds and it’s common for women to be dominant.

Then I met someone who seemed perfect. Committed to the mission of using his skills to improve people’s lives, had worked abroad like me, on the board of a household name company, very varied interests, deep thinker, similar childhood experiences. We had what I’d regard as the perfect relationship – theatre, shows, weekends away attending cultural events and exploring new places, good food, talking about ideas, philosophy, politics... I could be fully myself around him and share the same values. My favourite moment in our relationship was a few weeks in when he had a huge presentation at work and he called me afterwards and talked about it for an hour – it may sound boring but I knew then this was someone I could relate to. It also made me feel close to him that I was the one he wanted to share his accomplishment with.

Ultimately it did not work out but it got me thinking... I felt much more ‘at home’ with someone like that than where I had tried to force a relationship with someone very different and had to lock away parts of myself to fit in with their family and friends. So maybe it’s just easier for me to try dating men who aren’t ashamed to be ambitious and want to make a difference in society, and who like arts, classical music etc

So 2 questions to the thread:
1. If you are ‘professionally successful’, how do you feel that affects your personal life?
2. Where have you met men that pique your interest/ you’ve settled down with?

tbh I've never even considered or been attracted to anyone who is not from a similar background.... mainly because I am attracted to super nerds. I don't think it works when there are massive gaps of any sort except in rare cases. previously it worked with women being the less accomplished/financially secure etc. as relationships were inherently unequal. but given that human relationships are now more about companionship than reproduction, the unequal model doesn't usually work. especially if the woman is more accomplished (I don't like that fact, but it's true).

onto your second question, it is very hard to find someone one a similar level... I have also had the experience that the ones who are accomplished tend to be serious about work and not interested in much else and the ones who are fun are too laid back/goofy and hard to take seriously. hard to find someone with a balanced personality. I am also Muslim and most religous Muslims get married young (as no dating). I sort of missed the boat a bit for various reasons, so I have now pretty much accepted singledom and tbf I quite like it.

I am a ‘professionally accomplished’ woman and I think it’s very easy to believe that accomplishments and success are the most important part of what makes you attractive relationship material. Seemingly the important things to the men I have met are kindness and a caring nature, being good at domestic things and being a happy participant in a loving physical relationship. Some men see the professional success as a bonus some have no opinion and some do not like the idea. I’ve also noticed that it’s almost impossible to know which opinion they will have from the man’s background, it’s a matter of their own personal confidence and self worth. A lot of luck is involved for anyone in meeting someone decent and I don’t have a magic formula to offer sadly. I actually found my lovely partner online where we were each looking for friends with benefits. It turns out we both have demanding and very different professional roles but this was not why we selected each other at the start 😊

Sounds like you’re doing the right thing, being up front about kids is important. I actually really liked the idea of dating a man with kids for a while and if it was the right person it wouldn’t be an issue at all. But I dated someone who didn’t have kids and the day-to-day planning was a lot more straightforward, so that did affect my view.

Regarding hobby groups, I’m not sure anyone does a hobby purely to meet the opposite sex? But I have found many to be women only! I do find single men to be a bit more apprehensive about going out into the wild to meet people, or just do sports with other men etc.

I mostly find that I meet men at conferences and work events at the moment! I don’t mean romantically, but still, the kind of situation where you have a little chat and they give you their contact details

Interesting!

Well good luck with that! I don’t know anyone who has found an actual man like that on OLD -they get snapped up in the wild! 😂 .
I have a friend who is looking for a unicorn like that and was convinced she had hound one. But a man like that is not looking for a woman of 70 -yes he was a bullshitting player…😔😔😔

Yes — the “Z” men also get left over, which is another huge problem for China. Especially as China already has too many men relative to women.

Meeting on dates or chatting mostly. It becomes obvious if you're asked about your income etc quite a lot.

But I take your point that I'm also being a bit judgemental now too. Maybe a little jaded from the various cycles of OLD over the past few years! 🤦🏻‍♂️

Intrigued by this thread, and by the idea that some men are threatened by high-earning women. It wouldn't bother me one iota if my wife earned four times my salary - that would be great for us as a family enhancing our life experiences dramatically; why would men say no to that? I get that fragile masculinity exists but I struggle to understand it when it comes to the family pot. In the OP's case, I think just doing what you enjoy most is the best way to meet someone with similar values and interests... whether that's solo travelling, hiking, theatre, etc.

But maybe they’re checking you approximate their income?

I don't know if the phenomenon is that men don't like accomplished women as much as it is that it's just not something they care about very much when it comes to relationships.

I've read some articles showing that there can be a disconnect between men and women in OLD because people are putting out what they want rather than what the opposite sex wants (obviously not everyone but enough to create an observable phenomenon). So women might show how professionally successful they are because that's what they're interested in, but men are more interested in other things. And that can also be a reason for the hideous shirtless and bed selfies from men; because they'd like a woman who did that, but most women hate it.

And that can also be a reason for the hideous shirtless and bed selfies from men; because they'd like a woman who did that, but most women hate it.

Men really want blurred pics, aiming up the nose and half the head cut off? Hmm...

I've seen weirder stuff...

You're right, that's true.

Maybe it's a feeling, maybe it's my own unconscious bias!

If we”re going with the ‘men post pictures they actually want to see from women’ hypothesis, then a significant proportion of men dating online appear to want to see women grinning as they hold up a large fish.

Give it a try!

That's a very honest start to a relationship you have there, and I suspect probably a lot more healthy than trying to establish any other kind of relationship without that honesty, that is then doomed to fail.

I've certainly reconsidered my relationship goals over the last few years, and suspect the FWB approach may be the best solution. But saying that without sounding like you just want to shag or cheat your way through a dating site is tricky! Although in reality I'm probably open to any monogamous relationship that works!
Do you mind me asking if you used a specific site, or app, or did you 'meet in the wild' so to speak?

Or a picture of the genitalia taken just as they start urinating into the toilet.

Oh, super nerds are the best! I guess that's why I was gutted when my last relationship ended, as he was nerdy but also still interested in looking presentable and going to events, and with a wide range of interests beyond work. Balanced, as you put it. So now that I've got a taste of men like this exist, I do wonder where their natural habitat is.

Out of interest, would you marry outside your religion? I know it's not widely accepted but am aware of some couples.

Singledom certainly has many plusses! In many ways I am really enjoying it.

Erm, they are asking you about your income?! More than once?!

Surely that's a question you wouldn't even ask a close friend unless they volunteer the information? Sometimes I'm glad I'm not a man! Is that the point where you get ready to make your excuses?

In the OP's case, I think just doing what you enjoy most is the best way to meet someone with similar values and interests... whether that's solo travelling, hiking, theatre, etc.

Yes I think that is probably best.

I don't think it's the income/assets necessarily. I feel like the perception of some is that people that went to good schools and universities and whose family all have 'professional' jobs are very different from someone who left school at 16, even if said people are now part of the same friendship group/ generally get on brilliant.

Imagine your wife making daily comments such as

1. We didn't have anything like that where I grew up
2. Would you like some caviar with that?
3. I'm glad I got to know you before I found out these things about you, or I wouldn't have spoken to you

Even if they are innocent comments and jokes, highlighting differences between you as opposed to finding common ground that there's lots of does come between you after a while.

I've never seen it so well expressed, with this 'A.B.C' system. But it's very true

Perhaps it does help eliminiate what you really DON'T want though!

I'm just thinking of some couples we all know... Surely you would be quite surprised if someone like Obama, Starmer, Sunak, Gates, Jobs, Zuckerberg etc would be married to a nail technician (nothing wrong at all with nail technicians! But an example of what would be a surprising match).

Obviously these people are the super elite, but also just thinking of my own family, most couples went to the same university and many have exactly the same job and 'rank' as their partner. From the top of my head I can't think of "A" men that settled with "B" women, but I can think of a couple of of "A" women with "B" men in my family, e.g. wife is a senior banker, husband is a police officer. I am more used to women being head of the household to be honest, which is why my recent experience surprised me, but perhaps my family/ culture are just a bit unusual in the British context

Why do you think FWB works best for you? Not judging in any way, just curious.

I feel like one of the challenges hard-working people come up against is the lack of time/ frequent work dinners and trips/ some weekends spent preparing for a big work presentation/ just feeling tired and wanting be alone sometimes.

I have at times felt like most people would want to be together almost all the time and not understand being told something isn't possible due to work. I'm quite a structured, forward-planning person and when someone more spontaneous tried to date me I felt like I let them down a lot.

I also feel like men that work a lot may feel that a relationship is a distraction and avoid getting too close with someone in the fear of having to let them down.

But ultimately I feel like all these feelings are hypothetical and maybe one doesn't need to think so much and just see where individual circumstances lead.

There's always one 😂. It's an internet forum. We're having a conversation.

Agree you're doing completely the right thing, just getting out there and meeting new people and getting into new social groups. You sound really cool.

Wonder if it would actually be beneficial to do some "self-reflection" yourself on what actually drives and motivates you?

What are your key goals?

Are you looking to develop your own creative practice? Are you after children?

What are your financial goals? This is important.

A lot of creativity and personal growth is down to money and leisure time. A doctor with a super-pressurised career may have three degrees and an IQ of 187 but you're not going to get the relaxed conversation about literature after a 20 hour shift!

If you're clever and independent minded and good with money, you could easily live frugally and FIRE financially with a partner and then you'd both have LOADS of time to travel and explore things.

(I'd say emotional stability and support is the cornerstone for building up the life you want - you don't want some intense Ted Hughes type.

You want someone who brings out your best self so you can grow yourself).

Once you have those goals then if you're looking for a partner you can have your requirements and see if they mesh.

I'd just keep on getting out there and eliminating/filtering anyone who doesn't align with you.

I wouldn't stereotype anyone, just meet and get to know people. You may find an "artistic creative type" who is the most snobbish and closed minded person, or an IT geek who actually likes the opera.

Many social groups (as you've noticed) are female dominated or not enough people. I agree with pps about big cities. If I was London I'd try things like the late night gallery openings. It just takes one.

The other thing (this may not agree with your outlook which is cool) is I personally find men can be very initially looks-orientated. Especially if you're meeting in the "wilderness".

I'm not saying to put on a red fitted dress and heels if its not your thing, but I do find it increases my options if I'm dressed in a (slightly) more flattering way.