If you are a ‘professionally accomplished’ woman, how do you meet men?

[ElleintheWoods]

Just to pre-empt, I don’t think ‘success’ (titles, possessions and other things society sees as such) matters and everyone is the same. However, more and more, men and people in my life seem to highlight that it still does matter in today’s society.

In my 20s I was a top 10 university graduate working in corporate London with HNWIs, so I used to think everyone was like that and that was normal life (young and naïve, sorry!). I’ve had 2 significant long-term relationships (5+ years) and a few shorter but still serious and enjoyable ones. Never really had bad experiences with men.

I then took a step back and moved to the countryside. I’m quite a friendly and bubbly person. However, I’ve found that men see me as a bit of an alien once they get to know my background. I play my background down a lot now that I’ve found it can alienate people, but obviously things do come out once you get to know someone/ people have Google. I was in a long-term relationship with a mechanic and he would make ‘how the other half live’ comments as a joke regularly. He was also ashamed of his house and family initially. I’ve also had the ‘why would someone like you want to be with someone like me’ comment from more than one guy. Frustratedly, I asked a male friend why guys like him don’t pursue me even though they seem interested and he said ‘I’d feel like I’m punching a bit/ long-term I’d feel lesser than you’.

So it seems that although I was open to dating anyone, it doesn’t seem many men are open to dating a woman who is more professionally accomplished than them. I’m also from Denmark where ‘class/ background’ generally is a lot less at the forefront of people’s minds and it’s common for women to be dominant.

Then I met someone who seemed perfect. Committed to the mission of using his skills to improve people’s lives, had worked abroad like me, on the board of a household name company, very varied interests, deep thinker, similar childhood experiences. We had what I’d regard as the perfect relationship – theatre, shows, weekends away attending cultural events and exploring new places, good food, talking about ideas, philosophy, politics... I could be fully myself around him and share the same values. My favourite moment in our relationship was a few weeks in when he had a huge presentation at work and he called me afterwards and talked about it for an hour – it may sound boring but I knew then this was someone I could relate to. It also made me feel close to him that I was the one he wanted to share his accomplishment with.

Ultimately it did not work out but it got me thinking... I felt much more ‘at home’ with someone like that than where I had tried to force a relationship with someone very different and had to lock away parts of myself to fit in with their family and friends. So maybe it’s just easier for me to try dating men who aren’t ashamed to be ambitious and want to make a difference in society, and who like arts, classical music etc

So 2 questions to the thread:
1. If you are ‘professionally successful’, how do you feel that affects your personal life?
2. Where have you met men that pique your interest/ you’ve settled down with?

Your mentioned Glasto, have you tried it? Seriously! Away from the stages it's full of people with passions for all sorts of weird and whacky topics, with the festival vibe where you can talk to anyone. There are lots of small bars where you can get chatting.

Most of my friends who didn't meet at university have met at conferences or via the expat community. We all moved around so much we missed the dating boat at home, but other immigrants get it. I have an advantage of cover over you: I speak the local language, but only at around C1/2 level. That forces a level of directness so we can't hide our personalities behind clever words. They get a shock if I switch to English though, because my IQ goes up by 20 points! I do a couple of sports like triathlon that attract male mega geeks (not for dating, but because I'm a mega geek too) but they do tend to be a bit overly focused.

I live rurally, am professionally accomplished I suppose, and find it equally hard to date.

The books thing is important. I've dated three men who I later found didn't own a book between them, and it doesn't work. I enjoy learning, I enjoy books and am puzzled that anyone would ignore such an easy source of joy. They didn't see the value in always learning, thought it irrelevant. Seemed to have no curiosity. 🙁

I'm very careful, after two who developed far too close an interest in my house (one proved to be light-fingered).

My last two dates have been someone I met at a corporate clay shooting day and someone I met at a friend's barbecue. I loath OLD so just try to go to as wide a variety of places as possible, meet as many people as I can, and not be in a rush.

But I am lucky that I have a ds, and am happy as I am so don't feel under any pressure to find someone.

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing? My 'grievance' is mostly around men not wanting to date someone who outearns them or has significantly more life experiences, eg travel, living abroad etc. My experience seems to be that the average guy that lives within a few miles of where they were born doesn't see themselves with this type of woman. And thus this mostly leaves the option of 'successful' women dating 'successful' men (still hate the s-word!).

I think this is an interesting view, I’ve moved around for work and now live hundreds of miles from I was born, when I go back, I still know people ( men and women), who have never left , work locally and who that going to nearest big town is a day out,
those people seem to have a different mindset or attitude towards life, not better or worse just different

It's tricky. I've found it hard. I think it can take time to move in with someone. Or them to decide to move in. So it's easier to go ok what life would we build together, let's imagine and build that.

I've learned the hard way about letting go of expectations and fixed ideas - ultimately we are all slightly flawed individuals. There's no such thing as perfect.
This goes both ways.

I've always thought I should provide for myself and not depend on anyone. I don't think a guy cares about this so much but they like effort, openness and feeling appreciated. Chemistry and being able to have a good conversation is key.

When someone asks me IRL I am certainly up front re where I stand, although definitely not making any more dating profiles 😊

I wouldn't make a difference between my own biological child or someone else's at all, and I would be open to dating a father if I really liked them. As a parent you are stretched in terms of time and finance. Meaning if your new girlfriend goes off to dinner and theatre dressed to the nines while you are doing homework with your 10-year-old, it can cause conflict/ resentment and more compromising is needed - or you end up leading separate lives.

While childfree men in their 40s are probably hard to find, I do know a few great ones. It's not impossible as your relative's story shows but seems like a big ask.

You haven’t actually said whether you want kids or not. Are you open to men who have none but want one?

having to cling to the one reasonably interesting and single man you come across

That's an interesting point. Now that I think about it, I've met probably 2 men in the last year who I found quite interesting and a good match on paper. Because they were rare, I tried to have lots of patience with them and look past any areas of incompatibility, even when they probably were a good match only on paper.

I'm not moving to a city though, sorry! BUT I do go into major cities weekly and get about the country, so thankfully I'm not quite as isolated.

I guess the choice of where you live comes with pros and cons in many ways!

Do I have to say? 😋Think I made a good effort at dodging the question!

OK whatever. Good luck, won’t waste my time trying to offer any more advice.

I did mention it... I like the quiet life (moved to the countryside in my late 20s after all!) so to be honest music festicals and other crowded loud places like nightclubs is something I've never felt comfortable in. I'm a bookish girl so I like my book and arts/philosophy festivals, and conferences/ courses. So I guess the concept is similar, thanks for the idea.

That's interesting, where did you live? And what other sports would you say attract mega geeks?

I know it's an anonymous forum but it's still a very personal question to ask and can pertain to delicate health issues etc.

For what it's worth I am grateful for your advice nevertheless and I'm sorry you feel you've wasted your time.

You sound a fair bit like me then. I know many people don't read a lot with everything else is going on, but I don't get being allergic to books/ stories. even if it's not a book but a film, I'd still like to be able to discuss it with them.

Light-fingered! 😮

What type of places do you go to? Also, do you find that nowadays that so much interaction takes place online, men approach women less in real life, also in fear of coming across a creep, I guess?

What I find that nobody is particularly direct IRL anymore and tries to get your contact details under some guise to converse online.

What kind of attitude do you mean? One where it's about being on a more conventional path?

I feel that the people who stay closer to home are often also more family-oriented and regard family time as a big part of their lives, so they perhaps regard people that choose to live far from their families and aren't as close with some mild suspicion?

There is a correlation between high level of education and high level of marriage rates for professional men. As someone who has spent the last 20 years in law and finance, I would say that by late 20s every single male colleague was in a relationship/settled down and more than 30% of my female colleagues were still single.

So from my personal experience the only time to meet another professional with similar interests in the arts/culture is at university or when you start out work as a graduate. As I have got older, I have also witnessed much lower rates of divorce for my colleagues where their partners were dependent on them for financial security.

This is not helpful of course for all the single ladies like us but I feel that you need incredible amount of sheer luck to meet anyone outside of those age groups and environments no matter how hard you try. My single mid 30s friends have been single 5+ years and the only ones that met someone aged 30+ to settle down with was with someone without university education or in a manual job.

i am not saying that OLD is any decent indication of single people at any age but last time I briefly ventured on it in London, there were 3-4 times more single men without university degrees at all and I could count the number of single men with postgraduate degrees.

I've done a selection of sports for mega geeks! Optimal ones are team sports where you don't have much risk of talking to each other, just companionable shared goals and very focused on technique rather than luck or reading the opponent. Climbing and mountaineering you're separated by a rope; pingpong goes pingpong too much; canyoning, underwater hockey and kayak polo require you to keep your mouth shut; triathlon and marathon are in the zone; fencing has no expression and very formal rules; rowing you're staring at their back.

I've lived in a lot of big European cities. I'm quiet and bookish too, but couldn't bear the lack of privacy in a small place. I love the anonymity of cities, and the greater chance of bumping into similar people. Plus, large bookshops!

Haha, this really made me chuckle! This is a great list of sports for mega geeks! Rowing I could perhaps join in with! What about swimming?

Oh yes, everyone certainly knows everyone’s business here. After dining with a few different guys in my local, something told me I best take my dating life a couple of villages over!

As someone who has spent the last 20 years in law and finance, I would say that by late 20s every single male colleague was in a relationship/settled down and more than 30% of my female colleagues were still single.

So off the back of that… Succeeding in these fields in your 20s takes crazy hours. Do you think that at that age, the men’s female partners were willing to accept that, whereas the women’s potential male partners got frustrated over a female working all the time and perhaps looked for someone more available?

Or do you see another reason for that?

My working hours and travel were certainly an issue for partners in the past and made me feel guilty at times.

As a high earning woman I'm similar to you OP, but I have 2 primary age DC and in my early 40's. Split with my partner of almost 8 years because he became emotionally abusive.

Interestingly, his put-downs were always around his perception of my financial wealth and spending, rather than the reality, and my "easy life". Laughable as I didn't come from money, my parents both worked as carers. When we met I earned 50% more than him, by the time I left it was nearly 3 times. He last knew my salary when it was about double his, as his resentment grew as my salary did. I am now in the top 1% of PAYE workers in the UK, which I find staggering.

From my sample of 1(!) experienced relationship, and those of people in my circle, the success of a relationship where the lady is more professionally successful largely depends on the outlook of the man.

Mine obviously didn't work out, but I know of doctors together, lawyers together etc where the lady is the higher earner, and they all met at uni and stayed together. The man in these couples is usually very proud of his wife, as seems to have no issue with her being professionally successful.

Having been single for 3 years since the relationship above, I've been doing internet dating, with very little success. I've done it on and off over the last year, and only met one guy who I could see something developing with and we went on 3 dates, however he seemed to be in demand (it was obvious from something he said on the first date), then he ghosted me.

Through internet dating I've been on lots of first dates where men have been shocked that I own my own home, I own a decent car outright and I have a Nanny for my children. These topics all come up in normal conversation. These days I tend to say I "work in finance" to Ken I meet, rather than mentioning I'm a Director, which can feel a bit like I'm hiding myself away.

I've also started attending more networking events of all kinds, and talks in the field I work in and I'm interested in. The men who attend these are absolutely the type I am interested in, and in the right age group, however every one I have spoken to is married! I'm going to keep attending these type of events, in the hope that eventually 1 of them will be a divorced dad (my ideal 😍), looking for a new partner, plus I enjoy that I get to hear about interesting topics and further my knowledge at the same time.

*to men I meet, not Ken!

It is a mix of things I think, but spending lots of hours on one’s career rather than on other areas that are valued by these professional men is a key factor - women prioritising career over relationships in their 20s, not being prepared to give up their career or be a stay at home parent or prime carer for kids, not having the time and/or desire to prioritise appearance/physical fitness that may be seen as desirable by a lot of these men (quite a few younger colleagues have partners who are former models or Instagram influencers or Pilates teaches), not being in some of the more glamorous rather than boring professions such as PR, marketing and the like that also adds to a male’s status.

As you said, plenty of these men were working long hours in their 20s too, but their partners didn’t seem to mind because of the lifestyle and/or status they provide. For women, there seems to be little to no status and value added by a career woman unless they also run the family/look after kids and add some flair due to a popular career or stunning appearance.

Your experience is so common for women in finance at all ages, it is just scary!

My single friends are 10 years younger and they feel the same way. I have also found it even harder as you progress through the ranks of being well paid to the 0.5% of top earners, which makes the income disparity quite glaring.

I have attended fifteen networking events and conferences this year and didn’t meet a single divorced or singe age appropriate man. The only single age appropriate man from work I found on a dating app with a blank biography as I have mentioned elsewhere. He is however no doubt attracting hundreds of single women as a tall man with blue eyes in finance 😆

@ElleintheWoods ,

Forgive the delay in replying...... Enjoying a bit of time doing my main hobby!

So the reason I am maybe considering a FWB is pretty much what you have already thought of.

I have a career that involves a lot of time away and sometimes without easy communication. I'm not a high flyer, I just work hard and am good at what I do, so enjoy it, despite it's downsides. But I am intelligent, and I enjoy slightly off beat things (read I'm a bit of a geek), especially compared to my colleagues! I like the theatre (but rarely get to go), I read when I can (not as much as I used to), and I enjoyed learning..... At least subjects that interest me!

I know that my career, hobbies and the fact that I have children really restrict a relationship, so while searching for the unicorn of someone who ticks the proverbial checklist (or some of it), and lives within an hour and can tolerate the above...... The idea of a FWB has come up.

I won't lie and I'll be upfront, I miss the physical aspects of a relationship, but unlike a fair proportion of my colleagues (it's a certain kind of career) I can't jump into bed with anyone, much less pay for it (they will and do). I need to know someone and have built a rapport, and understand them to jump into bed with them, it enhances the enjoyment I like to think. Hence still wanting monogamous relationship and not a one night stand!

So, finding someone who is actually fairly independent, and had their own life, but also wants someone to spend the nicer times with one another and share time on a more easy going basis might be that answer?! Shared interests, or at least some, share outlook, but no pressure?!

It may also be the basis for starting a relationship that grows into more...... It's why I find the concept interesting.

I could be totally wrong, but it's certainly something I'm thinking about as an option if it suites both people!

Maybe it's a bit too much of a false solution, and nothing replaces 'doing things the old fashioned way'!

'Ivory towers' means academia? Surely you mean 'dreaming spires'? To live in an ivory tower means you live in a rarefied life surely?

Keep going with it @occhiazzurri, although that's been the experience so far, that type of event does seem to the best for meeting the kind of man I am looking for, and perhaps you too.

I actually met my EX at a similar event lol, although as this was 10 years ago, I was childfree and at a different stage of my career. Previous to my EX I also dated other similar status men who seemed fine with having a similar level partner should have stuck with one of them.

Absolutely the tall single guys in finance with no DC can have the cream of the crop of women, which I most certainly am not (looks wise anyway!), plus I have 2 DC, and there are swathes of women without DC looking for the same thing.

I must say I'm reasonably happy being single, and don't need a man for having a man's sake, but would certainly like to have a partner to share good times with, plus I want to gift him my tool box so he can do all my DIY lol

And as an academic, I can assure you there’s very little that is rarefied or ivory tower-ish about academia.