If you are a ‘professionally accomplished’ woman, how do you meet men?

[ElleintheWoods]

Just to pre-empt, I don’t think ‘success’ (titles, possessions and other things society sees as such) matters and everyone is the same. However, more and more, men and people in my life seem to highlight that it still does matter in today’s society.

In my 20s I was a top 10 university graduate working in corporate London with HNWIs, so I used to think everyone was like that and that was normal life (young and naïve, sorry!). I’ve had 2 significant long-term relationships (5+ years) and a few shorter but still serious and enjoyable ones. Never really had bad experiences with men.

I then took a step back and moved to the countryside. I’m quite a friendly and bubbly person. However, I’ve found that men see me as a bit of an alien once they get to know my background. I play my background down a lot now that I’ve found it can alienate people, but obviously things do come out once you get to know someone/ people have Google. I was in a long-term relationship with a mechanic and he would make ‘how the other half live’ comments as a joke regularly. He was also ashamed of his house and family initially. I’ve also had the ‘why would someone like you want to be with someone like me’ comment from more than one guy. Frustratedly, I asked a male friend why guys like him don’t pursue me even though they seem interested and he said ‘I’d feel like I’m punching a bit/ long-term I’d feel lesser than you’.

So it seems that although I was open to dating anyone, it doesn’t seem many men are open to dating a woman who is more professionally accomplished than them. I’m also from Denmark where ‘class/ background’ generally is a lot less at the forefront of people’s minds and it’s common for women to be dominant.

Then I met someone who seemed perfect. Committed to the mission of using his skills to improve people’s lives, had worked abroad like me, on the board of a household name company, very varied interests, deep thinker, similar childhood experiences. We had what I’d regard as the perfect relationship – theatre, shows, weekends away attending cultural events and exploring new places, good food, talking about ideas, philosophy, politics... I could be fully myself around him and share the same values. My favourite moment in our relationship was a few weeks in when he had a huge presentation at work and he called me afterwards and talked about it for an hour – it may sound boring but I knew then this was someone I could relate to. It also made me feel close to him that I was the one he wanted to share his accomplishment with.

Ultimately it did not work out but it got me thinking... I felt much more ‘at home’ with someone like that than where I had tried to force a relationship with someone very different and had to lock away parts of myself to fit in with their family and friends. So maybe it’s just easier for me to try dating men who aren’t ashamed to be ambitious and want to make a difference in society, and who like arts, classical music etc

So 2 questions to the thread:
1. If you are ‘professionally successful’, how do you feel that affects your personal life?
2. Where have you met men that pique your interest/ you’ve settled down with?

Male here, reasonably intelligent but I've never been bothered by a brighter or better educated woman, find it odd if guys are, I've got no problem to be challenged intellectually, pull me up on & take the piss out of my nonsense, is that unusual? although it can't just be a battle of wills at home after a long hard day, is all a balance.

However I've got male friends who definitely prefer to be the more intelligent one.

I've had female pals be exactly the same, in that they prefer to be the lead, really bright, good looking great jobs & well educated women, one married a bus driver who was a nice enough guy but thick as 2 short planks, not a looker quite dull, vs her funny & clever, but it seemed to work & the other v similar, she has a better looking guy but not close to her job level or education etc but it works.

Just a thought on your Nordic roots & mechanic ex, my pal years ago was a mechanic, he had a Swedish rather than Danish wife, great job etc she was terrific, waay beyond him educationally, but he was a good looking guy & v funny, it didn't last unfortunately but she certainly had no problem with his job or education, I don't think he had with her job, but he did with her work circle, some very rude & condescending people he encountered.

I don't have a problem with my H's job. I genuinely admire his capacity for hard physical work, his thick heavy shoulders and hands like shovels.
He's not had much education but he's sharp & I like to think has good instincts.

I think that you made a mistake moving to the countryside. At least in terms of romantic prospects. You will find more people with whom you have something in common in London (I am presuming that was the city you worked in). Also if you love opera and theatre why not live nearer those venues?

Also, taking “a step back” at 35 is quite unusual for someone who genuinely does/did get fulfilment from their job, yet it sounds like you do still somewhat define yourself by your professional status. Is this something you perhaps need to unpick a bit, in that maybe you are coming across as still hankering for your old life and that doesn’t sit well with people in your new one?

Any reason you didn’t go back to Denmark/Scandinavia? Perhaps you need someone who shares the same cultural background as you?

The only practical tip I have is to go on small group holidays perhaps with historical/art type themes.

As a man, this is a fascinating post, and I find myself asking 'what would matter to me?'

I love an intelligent and stimulating relationship, and my biggest challenge in dating is finding someone who is like that too!

I am educated, but work in a more manual industry, surrounded by a mix of educations and values. There are certainly a lot of people there who would jump to the same conclusions you've already mentioned about 'going to the opera' etc. But there are also a few who wouldn't.

Someone mentioned the importance of 'bringing something to the relationship' and I think this is probably quite important to anyone slightly intelligent. I'm very happy to be with someone financially and intellectually better than me, but I'd want to feel like I was contributing something to feel comfortable, even if that was just humour and company!

A question for the OP;

Are you also narrowing down your field by wanting someone to be not previously married or have children from a previous relationship etc?

Not saying that is wrong at all, but as many have mentioned, a lot of 'good' men have already been married earlier, and maybe some are now in the 'divorced with children' category. Is this a category you'd look in?

Also geographical location seems to make a difference here. Are you near bigger cities?

'Countryside' is a massive catch-all term that could mean an hour's train from London (the Cotswolds) or rural Devon. Which one??
I did wonder what OP was doing now. Is she still a professional?

I met Dh in a bar. 🤷🏻‍♀️ We both were working abroad. I criticised his drink choices. We became friends and the rest is history.

I think it’s about meeting the right person. Dh was attracted to the fact I was an educated single woman who up and moved to a somewhat high risk country for a career opportunity. He shared a similar sense of adventure and ambition. We are well matched in that way.

I think you may need to go where the people are who are going to have the background you do. I hate to say it, but it’s probably not in a rural part of the UK. I live in a traditional rural area and women here, by and large, don’t have careers, don’t travel, don’t have a lot of education. That’s obviously a generalisation. But I haven’t met anyone else like me. If I’d lived here in my 20s, it would have limited my options for meeting someone who was looking for what I had to offer.

Sure, but I lived in a village ten minutes’ drive from a railway station that was an hour out of St Pancras, and it was the most insular, provincial place I’ve ever lived in a lifetime of moving around internationally, including other stints in far more remote countryside. It’s the only place I’ve lived where I struggled to make friends, and if I’d been looking for a romantic partner, there would have been zilch locally. I’m a deeply ordinary person, but a foreign woman with a lot of degrees, a professional FT job and one child by choice was very unusual in this place.

I didn't mean locally. I've never bothered much with it - always headed to the nearest city.
An hour away is near enough to date in London! It's massive and so many live an hour apart anyway at either ends.
Finances may be an issue but OP sounds like she can afford it. If this is her situation

I haven't experienced what you are describing. Sure I know quite a few accomplished men who have much less intellectual/high flying partners, but also many who have equals. Mostly I believe it is a myth that men don't like smart and career minded women.

What strikes me as odd is as someone who is very career driven, why have you decided to take a step back at the age of 35? Are you practically retired or have you switched fields?

Are you looking for inspiration for a romance novel?!

Just get over yourself and go online dating again. We all have different backgrounds / cultures / intellects and have to go through the process of trial and error before finding the right one. There’s nothing at all special about your situation.

@Pepinoo - with all due respect, I have three 35 year old friends who have spent the last 5 years on OLD in London with little success for a long term relationship. They weren't going for anyone in their field or professionally successful, they haven’t been able to meet anyone who is willing to commit at that age to one woman. And yes they have tried dating divorced dads. They have as a result all acquired a therapist to deal with the fallout from OLD. So the process of trial and error doesn’t work for a lot of women.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

That's what I mean... I don't have any problem with a man's education and background as long as they make me feel something and are a good, fun, interesting person. The men, however, seem to make it something worth mentioning, and if someone says 'your family would never accept someone like me' on a daily basis enough times, it's hard to not feel like they see a power imbalance there.

There's an interesting video where the interviewer asks Swedish girls on the street about what they like about a man and they say 'personality', leaving the American interviewer puzzled that they don't call out things like 'good job' or 'nice car'. Sometimes I feel like Sweden etc is quite different from the UK in that sense and these things matter far more here.

That sounds very therapy-like 😂

I did not enjoy many things about being in London 24/7 (lack of green space, noise and pollution, pace of life, values of many people in the industry/ extreme capitalism, cost of living vs wages, ..., ...). I also worked in NYC and Buenos Aires, so quite a big change moving further into greenery. I still go to a big city about once a week but I wouldn't live in a city, it's not my lifestyle.

I've not taken a step back career-wise, I just have a job that's mostly remote so I don't have to live in a city. I tend to actually hide anything to do with work/ background and I'm quite a bubbly, happy-go-lucky person that doesn't try hard to sound smart, so I don't think I come across as big-headed. But people inevitably ask you questions like 'where did you grow up/ go to school/ what was your first job' so you can't exactly hide your basic bio. And it's 2024 so people have Google etc. You can't just show up somewhere and be anonymous.

While I share some typically Scandinavian values, I don't want to leave my friends, life and ties to the UK behind to live abroad, this is my home.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I'm near bigger cities and go in regularly.

Are you also narrowing down your field by wanting someone to be not previously married or have children from a previous relationship etc?

Oh I would definitely be with someone previously married. I used to also be very open to children, but to be honest I feel that I get a bit of judgement from men who have school-aged kids. I went on a date with someone who said something like 'well obviously you don't have children, you've been too busy for it!' and there have been a few similar comments. I feel like we may end up living very separate lives as I like to be active during evenings and weekends (opera!) which is not very compatible with being a near full-time parent. Being a parent AND working full-time is a big job that I have a huge amount of respect for but it also leaves very little leisure time when one isn't absolutely knackered.

Still very commutable to major cities, within 90 mins of central London.
Still a professional.

I live in a traditional rural area and women here, by and large, don’t have careers, don’t travel, don’t have a lot of education. That’s obviously a generalisation. But I haven’t met anyone else like me.

I was extremely surprised at that to be honest. I hadn't really known many women before that didn't have advanced degrees (sheltered life, I know) and to some degree you are right. Another line I've had off men is 'I haven't met anyone like you' as the women in their family have stayed local and had kids young.

I have met some people like me for sure and there's a nice enough cultural and culinary scene here. It's just that most people move to this part of the country and to my particular belt of villages when they are empty-nesters and want to pursue 'projects'. Or they are from here.

Where I live is a little similar to Hay-on-Wye if you are looking for a comparison, but much much less touristic.

I now feel like I need to change the thread title to 'dating in the countryside' as that's where the discussion is going! 😂

I’m a deeply ordinary person, but a foreign woman with a lot of degrees, a professional FT job and one child by choice was very unusual in this place.

The above pretty much sums up how I feel about myself vs how people perceive me, I think. I feel very settled in everyday life and love it though.

Apologies, I feel like I phrased it poorly. I meant taking a step back in terms of not living in a city/ having that pace of life. I'm still very much working.

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing? My 'grievance' is mostly around men not wanting to date someone who outearns them or has significantly more life experiences, eg travel, living abroad etc. My experience seems to be that the average guy that lives within a few miles of where they were born doesn't see themselves with this type of woman. And thus this mostly leaves the option of 'successful' women dating 'successful' men (still hate the s-word!).

Not a bad idea, any particular suggestions for the plot? :)

I did go online dating, this is mostly what inspired this thread and the stories within it! I did not think to limit my dating pool in any way prior to having these experiences. Talking to real-life men I have met organically previously, I never even realised people may still have these types of attitudes! Which is why I have given up and decided on IRL only.

Also interesting!

I have to admit that I'm looking at your post from the opposite end side of the fence. I'm interested in where you find educated and fairly independent ladies who aren't looking for someone to 'elevate' themselves so to speak.

I'm not for one moment saying that it is all women or even a majority, but I know some women on OLD are looking for a man to help elevate their own status, you should see some of the lists of what you have to have or be! There is definitely a proportion out there!

If this post delivers some magical answer, I'm all ears, that's for sure! 😂

I'll say good luck and keep searching, there are definitely the right kind of people out there, but I know it's the finding of them that is the problem..... And all the other dating compatability things too!

What exactly do you mean by ‘elevate their status’, though?

If I were OLD, I’d be looking for someone clever, highly-educated, well-read, multilingual, ambitious and successful in their career, interested in and knowledgeable about art and music in particular — but I wouldn’t be seeking to ‘elevate’ myself, I’d be looking for someone at my ‘level’.

So what is your current strategy? 😊

I suppose people are always looking for a partner to make them better, not worse... But how far does one take it?

I've always found those lists 'interesting'. My ex and I used to joke that if we ever ended up single, neither of us could do OLD, because how can you break a human being down to a checklist? You meet someone, you talk to them, hear their ideas, read their body language, and you may unexplainably feel attracted to them without even noticing before you can get your checklist out...

I must admit that I have now developed a bit of a checklist, but the checklist relates more to hobbies and interests, as I don't want to go to the theatre or obscure restaurant without my SO, or not be able to discuss a book with him.

To be honest I think the women have given up on OLD, embrace ther single status and do the things they like doing with other women. Many of the hobby groups seem to be female only, composed of either single women or partnered women whose partner has very different interests.

Forgive me, it's very clumsily worded. What I think I mean is that traditionally in some circumstances, women would look for a man who can provide and it can be about status and such things. It's kind of the opposite of what the OP was posting about, where some women do actively seek out A men for example.
I was just thinking that this attitude can still exist in the female to male paradigm, but doing the opposite of a man looking for a 'high status' women doesn't seem to (at least bit commonly - unless I've missed something). Confirming the OP point really.

All a bit half thought, and not well articulated! Sorry!

Certainly not suggesting anything is right or wrong or fanning any flames.... More observations that support the OP🙈

Well I'm trying OLD, but I'm not loving it! Hence finding threads like this!

I'm divorced, 40, with children (some if the time), so for me, I try to be honest about my current life situation.
Because I understand that the 35 to 45 age is very important for anyone who does want to have children, so I try to be very upfront about that. It seems like the most important factor to 'get out of the way'
Then I will talk about my hobbies and normally run out if space at this point! 😂

And then everyone swipes on a few pictures.......which is a start, but it's hardly personality matching!

I know checklists are important, I think we all have them, but as you say, when you meet someone for real, it's amazing how often the checklist goes out if the window, or looks are less important thst personality!

Clubs and groups do sound like a good idea, but if fidning a partner is the only reason to go, is that a good enough reason to go to one? Or do we go because it's something we really enjoy anyway, and sod the fact there are no potential partners there! 😁

I've been told there are a lot of men who pose with fish on OLD or go golfing..... I've never done either, but maybe it's a place to start if you're looking..... Not sure you'll find many opera lovers there though 😜

But what I’m asking is how you know these women you see online are looking for higher-status men, rather than men at their level?

I mean, I’m sure Nigel the plumber could ‘provide’ for me, and may well earn far more than I do, judging by my cousin, but I’ve always provided amply for myself, so that’s not what I need. I need someone on my intellectual wavelength, who grasps that my job won’t suddenly become optional when we have a child, that if he’s a CEO or MP, he will still be halving childcare, and who doesn’t want to sit around watching sport at weekends.