Why do so many women set the bar so low?

[Anonymouseey]

I’m feeling so sad having just read the latest ‘he does nothing but please don’t suggest I leave him thread’. Why? Why do women want so little for themselves? Every day there’s a thread like it, half the time the woman seems to pay for everything too so the man brings nothing!

I am in a same sex marriage. We have our issues but everything is 50:50 there is no doubt about that. When I had a child free weekend with friends my first thought is ‘right we’d better work out when my wife gets the equivalent for herself’.

So what’s the reason? Is it self esteem? Is it fear of being single? I do have slightly more understanding when there is financial reliance on the relationship because that must be scary but in the cases where the man doesn’t even pay it just makes zero sense to me.

@gannett haha, yeah I’m not great either. I work with quite a few women. I have to say the younger of them seem to have this attitude that they want a man to look after and one who looks after them. The older ones complain a lot that they taken advantage of. Must be something in the water at my work.

Very few if any have said sod that I’m going to make my own way. It’s always about relationships and getting into them.

If I did it again I would probably look at bit more carefully at a partner's family. My husband was quite charming until we had kids, but the signs were there that his father was a difficult and unpleasant man who was pretty brutal. That was my ex husband's template.

I was naive on that one. Children really do push people back to how they were raised, so irrespective of all those right words or doing the right things when you are young and there is no pressure, you need to look at the wider family. That's what I will tell my children anyway. If you do not like how your prospective in laws relationship then think again. It's the template for yours after marriage and kids.

I do have a relationship now but we live separately. That works well and removes all the domestic politics.

In many cases, the qualities that can make a man very appealing as a boyfriend are not quite the same as the ones that will make him a good husband and father.

One key quality that is needed to be a good husband and father is the ability to tolerate dull, boring routines for many years. A lot of parenting involves washing, cleaning, staying in...

Men who are spontaneous and unpredictable will be great fun when thet are single but won't do so well with endless dull routine.

My nephew is boring. He'll be great husband and a great dad but women walk straight past him and into the arms of the show offs.

I'm sure there are many who will say the husband is lively and a great dad- I believe you.

But in general the qualities that can make a man very appealing as a boyfriend are not quite the same as the ones that will make him a good husband and father.

I think there are lots of good men around. But they are often over-looked. Quite literally if they are short!

Why would he leave though? I think he would less likely to leave than men in 50/50 relationships.

Agree on this, before you have kids how do you know how the man your with is going to cope with less attention, sleepless nights, no sex for a while and the responsibility of been a Dad.

Talk is cheap until your up every few hours with a crying baby doing nappy changes and feeding then have do a full day's work.

I am also in a same sex marriage and I'm by no means saying that these are perfect. But all I hear is women complaining about men, in real life too. It often seems to me to be issues around communication, disrespect, women thinking well this relationship is better than the previous so It'll do.

I find it so sad.

@morbidd

Do you spend much time in male only company? (I think this would be hard if you're female, given that your presence would change the dynamic)

Men traditionally have plenty of complaints about their wives too. I'm absolutely not saying that this makes anything ok or good, but that there's more balance than you see. Definitely issues with communication and disrespect, but unless you assume that the woman is always right, there has to be another side, and we don't see that here, or in real life, unless we are a) the wife or b) spending time with men as they discuss their problems at home.

Men do moan about wives and girlfriends but you'd be surprised how low the bar is too for men.

Most men are happy to just plod along on a relationship until they are literally at breaking point as long as men get sex now and again and have time for hobbies inside or outside the house.

@Andyls who knows what could happen. Another lady catches his eye. I just don’t think it’s great to have all your eggs in one basket. If he did you’ve not worked since the age of 18, not married. That’s probably because I’ve had to start again and it’s hard.

Well, if men are moaning and staying and their bar is low, how is it the patriarchy that makes women do the same? That's my point, @Andyls It's happening both ways.

Men aren't 'happy to plod along'; they wouldn't be complaining if they were.

I often think that saying 'Patriarchy' is a bit of a get out of jail free card.

Some women make poor choices. Some women ignore red flags until it's too late. I'm not excusing men for the awful behaviour of some/many of them but some women ignore these and end up in grim situations where they have to do everything at home.

Most women want kids. 80% have them. Of the rest a lot wanted them but didnt have them.

Society is very punitive of women who want to be solo mums.

So women are coerced into relationships as a compromise to have DCs.

Both men and women don't carry out due diligence. Then oh no he or she is a dick. However modern society supports leaving so people don't learn how to navigate problems so they leave.
Blaming relationship dissatisfaction on the patriarchy is nonsense.
The patriarchal concept is a flimsy theory anyway.

This is a good point. I too lived alone in my own flat for several years. I was content with my own company and certainly did not define my worth on or self esteem on the basis of relationship status. Yes, at some point I knew I wanted to settle down with someone but that someone's presence in my life would absolutely have to be a positive enhancement. I was self sufficient, had a good job, my own home and car, holidayed alone etc and certainly did not need additional drama in my life or be required to fund someone else.

Sorry, Again, man in the wrong place.
I am just back from training at a boxing club and taking the mickey about of a man for complaining about his wife.
And this is wrong of me. Complaining about your treatment is slightly taboo and embarrasing. I have done it on a couple of occasions to very close friends and I still remember the embarrassment.

Perhaps the issue is that people do not accept that they themselves get brainwashed.
I live in a nation where feminism is more advanced. Women are more inclined to consider a man who is shorter than then and earns less but will treat them nicely. Is that something many on here will happily do?

This is so perfectly put and I totally agree!

I’m happily single after my most recent long term relationship came to its natural end. I’m not interested in being in a relationship with anyone who can’t share the load equally. Anything less is disrespectful of me.

I think a lot of it comes down to self esteem and sense of your worth. I’ve only come to an acceptance of myself as I got older. But leaving a relationship can often be difficult from a financial sense - I’ve struggled massively with money since being single, it’s so much easier when there’s two of you and society is set up to reward that.
Also the mental barrier that once you’ve given however many years of your life to something it’s scary to think of “throwing it away”…again this is just a concept sold to us that you have to find one perfect relationship to stay in forever more and if you don’t manage it you’ve somehow “failed” and everyone ends up too scared to be single because we’re constantly told we’re worth less.
I’m not scared of dying “alone” - aside from the fact I don’t feel alone, the idea of a partner dying and leaving me behind or vice versa scares me more! I’m happy in my own company and have invested a lot of time in building friendships since I split from my partner. Of course it’s not the same as having that one go to person. Do I miss having a partner? Yes. But am I willing to compromise my values and accept less than I’m worth for a relationship? No.

I understand - I set the bar low but really did think it was high. I have a LTR - never married. He’s a professional (partner at law firm). High pay. He does the hard stuff around the house and is proud. We were both divorced - I had 2 daughter he took on as his own and then we had 2 together (in 13 months so quick succession). He told me to leave my job, he’d be the provider and I’d take care of the family - that was important to both of us. I thought it worked well and although it was hard work for both of us it was a lovely life. Until it wasn’t and I found out our entire 18 yr relationship was peppered with multiple affairs. Some short lived, some which lasted for years. We never had an energetic sex life but he seemed happy, we enjoyed each others company and were affectionate. I’ve realised I deserve much better and I’m just getting ready to split - he doesn’t know. He thinks it’s all perfect. However after the last four year affair which ended in 2022, and my super efforts to make it better he has started with another woman at work, someone he had been messing around with prior to the four year affair. My bar has risen and I will no longer be treated like crap. From now on it’s onwards and upwards. I’ve equity in my house and I’ll be sad to leave, but I will go eventually and will have somewhere which is only mine and I won’t have to clean up after him. Result!

I don’t think there actually is such a thing as a biological clock, it’s more down to social influences than anything.
Many women who decide as young kids that they don’t want their own children, never change their minds.
I decided at age 3 I didn’t want children, and never had the urge to be a mother in my whole 41 years on this planet.
Approaching peri menopause now with no regrets.

There’s a saying of sorts “there’s nothing more convincing that sexuality is innate than the existence of heterosexual women”

I think usually it's not easy to see how shit the guy is going to be at the the start of the relationship - because most men will make an effort for a year or so, plus there is all the rush of intense lust and (hopefully) amazing sex and passion at the start.....

Then once the mists clear and you start to see him for what he really is, you may own a house with him, you may have kids with him, you may feel deeply sorry for him, whatever - all sorts of things can mitigate against leaving even the shittest relationship. That said, I have left 3 LTRs before, it's definitely possible. But never that easy, it takes time and resilience to get out when your lives are entangled.

Oh, and I am bi, and I would say that ff relationships CAN be just as bad as mf ones. Tho I do agree that men are more dickish in relationships on average than women. But not always by as much as you would hope - I have known cheating women, drunk women, controlling women, etc etc. (There aren't all women I have been with by the way - some I know about second hand).

Yes let us not say that women cannot be difficult in same sex relationships. They can ime. But I suppose a key difference for me at least is that I have never been fearful of what a woman might do to me, whereas really, that has been true for some men, and I was right to be.

I haven’t read all replies, only some, and “the patriarchy” has been mentioned a lot, I do agree, however I would add that so many women themselves perpetuate that idea of “incompleteness without being in a relationship” crap to other women, how many times have you sat single around a dinner table, feeling uncomfortable or judged by other “complete” friends/colleagues (Bridget Jones comes to mind), so I am sorry but we are to blame also, it has started to change somewhat recently, but not fast enough in my opinion.

I think that can be considered part of patriarchy perhaps? The system would affect how women and men see themselves and each other.