Why do so many women set the bar so low?

[Anonymouseey]

I’m feeling so sad having just read the latest ‘he does nothing but please don’t suggest I leave him thread’. Why? Why do women want so little for themselves? Every day there’s a thread like it, half the time the woman seems to pay for everything too so the man brings nothing!

I am in a same sex marriage. We have our issues but everything is 50:50 there is no doubt about that. When I had a child free weekend with friends my first thought is ‘right we’d better work out when my wife gets the equivalent for herself’.

So what’s the reason? Is it self esteem? Is it fear of being single? I do have slightly more understanding when there is financial reliance on the relationship because that must be scary but in the cases where the man doesn’t even pay it just makes zero sense to me.

I used to go to a spiritual group. The women were putting up with men who were wrong in so many ways. One married a man who had not seen his two children since they were very lttle asbhe did not want to not did he even pay maintenance. Another woman chose a man who looked 20 years older than he was due to a health condition. She looked like she was going out with her dad. In addition he had no equity and although she had a house it was too small for her and her partner plus her 22 year old daughter so they subsequently took on a huge mortgage. The daughter also resented him as for years her mum had no new partner.I

I fail to see the attraction to the above two men.

@Pinkbonbon it was all a bit complicated.

I said I didn't care how much he earned but I wanted him to be kinder. He replied arguing that he may "come across as unkind" because he had built up resentment towards me as he "knows" i think he is "inadequate".

He tried to explain it but he basically admitted he feels inadequate and he takes it out on me. He said it more eloquently and all in therapy speak and therapist started saying that I "obviously trigger him".

God knows.

I do feel it's a lost cause.

For men regular sex papers over a lot of cracks in a relationship. The first thing to go in troubled relationship is been intimate.

@TooManySlipperz

I said I didn't care how much he earned but I wanted him to be kinder. He replied arguing that he may "come across as unkind" because he had built up resentment towards me as he "knows" i think he is "inadequate

That's not complicated. It's simple deflection: You are asking him to do something differently, and he is saying that he only does it in the way you don't like because of your actions/thoughts. It's a very common abuse tactic.

A person is responsible for their own triggers. So, if you do something that triggers him into feeling horrible/behaving in a way he doesn't want to, he needs to talk to you about that, and between you, agree on a way forward that hurts less, for both of you. But that's not what's happening, is it? He doesn't instigate conversations to say 'When you do x, I feel y, and I don't want to feel y, so can we talk about it please?' He doesn't instigate anything except treating you like shit. Then, when you try to instigate a conversation about it, he tells you it's your fault, really.

He's not from Mars, is he. He's from earth just like you, but has a different idea of how to treat people, and of his own importance.

He's not from Mars, is he. He's from earth just like you, but has a different idea of how to treat people, and of his own importance.
Bravo! I read that book and was mystified why we were expected to learn from a man who seemed to have the emotional intelligence of a child and an evidently abusive side.
Men will be looed down on if they earn less, that does not justify abuse.

This is what's called men having a low bar.

People of both sexes lower their bar when they place importance on the wrong things: regular sex, social status of being in a couple, the rarity of someone paying attention to them, what their parents and friends think, the desire to have babies, the desire for a fancy wedding.

Compatibility is all that matters and all those things paper over it.

A lot of people seem to have a man-shaped or woman-shaped gap in their lives and when it's filled by someone vaguely attractive, they don't think much deeper. So you see threads on here by women complaining that their husband of 20 years is unsociable or untalkative and always has been, but they've only just noticed. Like how? How did you not realise what kind of personality the man you were marrying had?

That book is such bollocks though. I feel it contributes massively to people's low bar, because they think men and women are inherently soooo different from each other and the behaviour they hate is just what all men (or women) do. No, there's no such thing as "what all men do" or "what all women do", and you don't need to accept it.

Poor male role models or none at all
Low self esteem, lack of confidence
Witnessed this crappy relationship between parents so it is just their norm
Low finances
Missguided belief that anything related to children and running a household is a women's job

I grew up in a two parent, happy home where my parents had traditional roles but my dad would always pitch in with cleaning and doing his share of the care for us. Both parents demonstrated respect for each other and a lot of physical and emotional support. They always encouraged us and instilled self respect. My dad would always say that a dh should never sit whilst his wife was standing and I always took it to mean that we all had to pitch in together. For me love is respect and any man that leaves his wife or partner to struggle isn't one worth having.

I value myself and came to realise what kind of partner I wanted and I wasn't willing to accept any less. In my mind I wasn't going to lumber myself with a layabout even if that meant a life without kids. I met dh and was very clear that I wanted a partner in every sense of the word who would be a hands on parent, that any future we would build for our family would be one we built together. I reinforced that I love my work and would want to continue despite having kids and I wasn't interested in a man that couldn't take care of his kids on his own or cook a meal. Dh is all of these things and more, he is an amazing father and wonderful dh. He raises me up and there isn't anything he wouldn't do for our children. It isn't as if he changes nappies etc. just because I'm not there but it's second nature to him to tend to them just as I would. If he hadn't been this way though I wouldn't have pursued a relationship with him and if he changed after dd1 I would have left him but I know that my parents would support me emotionally in that and I have a job that covers my finances. Not everyone has that!

We are asian and I'm aware that amongst his family there are very few men like my dh. One of his cousins told us about having to take his son to tesco to meet his wife so she could change their son's nappy as he had done a poo. His wife laughed it off as a 'whats he like' kind if thing. I have found it common within the South asian culture that women often have this belief that stuff re children and home is a women's job but tbh I've seen this in my White and Black friends too who set the bar of expectations of a partner so very low.

I hope to instil the same self worth in my girls and demonstrate a loving respectful relationshipto ds. Today ds was pushing his sister's stroller and when I said I'd take over he said he needs the patctice for when he becomes a dad.

Also important to note that "the bar" isn't a singular thing and nor is it the same for every woman. You have to figure out which bars are crucial to you and which are not important at all. I think a lot of people who seem to accept a low bar actually think, or thought at the beginning, that they'd found a partner who measured up to a different bar - looks or income or whatever. Only to find that bar wasn't what mattered in the end.

@gannett, we are arguing the same things.
We should not be shocked that people sometimes value shallow things in a partner. We accept that in men, that a man will be more attracted to a young woman with big boobs is obvious. Why should it be shocking that many women will want the fun rich man rather than the earnest one?
I was born in the mid-70s, and in house shares it was generally men who were more likely to be able to coo from scratch and both were able to loo after a house, the difference in people was whether they were willing rather than able. People on this thread write as though it is 1959.

Yep I know friends who like and message every single match on tinder or match.com

It's the same script when messaging too over and over with every person regardless of looks age etc etc

With match.com for example people think we'll we must be a good match if we "match" online not knowing that men just accept every match .

I had a four children with a shit man but he wasn’t too bad when we had the children. Over time though his work shyness, poor money management and general slap dash don’t care attitude eroded how I felt about him. Then he had an affair.

At that point it was time for us to split up. We had a council house and I was quite willing to leave and find a new house. The housing officer explained that as the primary carer of the children they would expect me to stay in the property with the children and he would move out. I was so grateful for that housing officer. She stopped me doing something stupid. He moved out and in with the person he was having an affair with. I’m still in the property over 12yrs later. He has since split with that woman and lives with someone else. She is lovely but it sounds like he’s still the same and I’m so grateful I’m not dealing with his money mismanagement and chaos now. Getting maintenance has always been difficult though.

I’ve stayed single. I didn’t want the complications of blended families when my children were small. I am lonely though and would like someone in my life - until I read some of these threads! I’m not sure I could tolerate someone around me 24/7 now (other than the children who are all pretty grown).

It happens, but you only get the stories on MN from the people who are currently enduring it. They initially hope for change, ask advice on how to change it. Some men may change after a threat to leave, often its temporary and slips back, resulting in more posting about it.
You don't hear further from people who have successfully turned their man around ( if they exist). You don't often hear from people who ditched their useless ex's, no need to post when you've come out of it.
Posters either want advice on staying with change or accepting that the relationship should end and how to do that. It's a skewed view on MN, the world outside is full of women who said 'f**k' this, as I did when DS was 3, no point of him - there was no need to post to see that.

Too many people expecting other people to change to fit. Look for someone who fits your needs from the onset and ditch the ones who don’t. Do men really start out really good then suddenly change after kids etc. In my own personal circumstances I chose a terrible first partner, stayed, hoped he’d change and surprise he didn’t. Second time around my radar was set to a partner who was actually a partner. He did housework before children and he does housework after children. I do think a lot of women perhaps like that they have a man to care for and then when kids come along they obviously have someone else to care for so get annoyed.

My sister in law seems to love it. She does 100% of the housework and childcare and he goes to work. She posts often on social media how much she enjoys taking care of her man. I’m sure he’s happy also. I find it odd, it wouldn’t suit me but it suits her. If he left though she’d be screwed as no job, not married.

@Makeitstop9, My first OH was initially amazing. She helped with housework, had a job, we could talk disagreements through, we had sex that satisfied us both and agreed on children. This completely changed once married. It does really happen like that sometimes, issues can be buried deep down.
I will genuinely put that down to bad luck. It is, I agree, often priorities. If we took this thread at face value, you would think that a young man with a job, who does housework and puts his partner first would be quickly snpped off and have lots of women after them, even if they are a bit dull and still struggling with bills. Clearly, that is not so.

@Sweden99 why change after marriage? Because she knew that she would get your
money if divorced?

I had a colleague once give me advice on choosing a partner. She told me to go lower and get a partner less good looking as they are more likely to behave. Another colleague has blatantly said she knows her partner is punching above his weight and so does he and she loves that he dotes on her…all a bit weird really.

I was always independant. I bought my first house at 19, alone,no help from anyone. I lived alone for 5 years and was content and single. I met dh and and married him. 20 years later and he has been nothing but an enhancement to my life. What I think was so important was that first few years. I know I dont need a man. I know I am capable and would be happy alone. Lots of woman jump from man to man and never prove to themselves that they can do it alone. It gives you the confidence to raise the bar high and take no shit. Time to know yourself is so important to self esteem.

I do not know.
It was why I originally come to MN. Of course, MN was much less men-friendly back then. I heard very indirectly that she also started to lose old friends in the years afterwards. Back then, emotional labour was a big thing and I am grateful our Scandinavian relationship therapist was having none of that.

@Sweden99 my first husband became abusive after marriage and down right appalling after our child. I come to see it as him putting bars on my prison.

That is horrible to hear.
Sorry, I am a man taking up a lot of posts. It is useful to hear some of the terrible things. I am sure my ex-wife would say that I was overwhelmed by the responsibilities of marriage and unable to cope, so became abusive. I have to consciously remind myself of how often this does really happen.

@Sweden99 I don’t doubt women are as capable as men at being abusive.

Certainly.
Sorry, I was unclear.
I think we tend to believe that we are reasonable and typical of our sex. Occasionally, there will be unfair accusations thrown at you and I find myself tending to then dismiss accusations. I have to remind myself women are genuinely suffering horrible treatment.

I sometimes think my slatternly domestic ineptitude was a bit of a dating superpower. No man who met me could have possibly thought "that gannett will be a domestic goddess who will look after all my creature comforts". So I never encountered any men with those misogynist expectations. (Maybe I was the low bar all along! But obviously I bring other things to the table.)