Why do so many women set the bar so low?

[Anonymouseey]

I’m feeling so sad having just read the latest ‘he does nothing but please don’t suggest I leave him thread’. Why? Why do women want so little for themselves? Every day there’s a thread like it, half the time the woman seems to pay for everything too so the man brings nothing!

I am in a same sex marriage. We have our issues but everything is 50:50 there is no doubt about that. When I had a child free weekend with friends my first thought is ‘right we’d better work out when my wife gets the equivalent for herself’.

So what’s the reason? Is it self esteem? Is it fear of being single? I do have slightly more understanding when there is financial reliance on the relationship because that must be scary but in the cases where the man doesn’t even pay it just makes zero sense to me.

@GerbilsForever24

Gotcha. Thanks for your judgement. So important and necessary.

I think women do often bow down and accept the patriarchy when married...how many change their last name and title, for example?

I am still with my DH because of the fear of what will happen with the kids. Its nothing to do with wanting a man or relationship, I would love an empty bed and to be left the hell alone by men. But I've got 2 kids and a joint mortgage and I think he might get really nasty and I can't see a way from protecting my kids from that dysfunction. I think he will turn the kids against me or certainly tell them lies about me. I know its not a good reason to stay but it's fear for the kids, it's nothing to do with wanting or needing a man.

Though certainly even though I have clarity now and no interest in male approval anymore - it was probably deep desire to be loved and appreciated that made me ignore red flags at the beginning of the relationship

I've never had a good example of a man in my life. All men are lazy, entitled and self serving in my experience. I enjoy and trust the company of women a lot more.

I think many place the bar so low because then they won't be disappointed.

If you tell yourself that your partner isn't lazy and selfish, it's just how men and women are different/the way families are/he's ok really, then it means you don't get angry and disappointed at who you've ended up with and how little they actually care.

I'm in a heterosexual relationship where it really is 50-50, but frankly they seem rare. My husband is constantly shocked by how low the bar is set, or how men that still do very little are regarded as good partners and fathers.

@Abstractthinking amen

@frozendaisy honestly, you think women stay because they want to show off holiday photos? Seriously? Some of us are accepting a more medicore life to not create a traumatising one for our children. I don't care about going on holiday. The thing that fucks kids up is conflict. And my home is conflict free. I don't love DH anymore but there is almost no conflict. If I leave - it will cause years of conflict and bitterness with my kids in the middle. And yet you think women like me are doing it for Instagram. It lacks real empathy or desire to think through issues properly.

I'm genuinely sorry that that is your experience of men. I can say from my own experience that isn't true of all or even of most men. You have been very unlucky. I hope you manage to escape your toxic relationship.

@TooManySlipperz But your kids.will grow up witnessing a loveless marriage?

@TooManySlipperz

The thing that fucks kids up is conflict. And my home is conflict free. I don't love DH anymore but there is almost no conflict

That fucks kids up too though. They will model their adult relationships on your relationship. They will choose relationships with fear, and no love, and almost no conflict. Conflict isn't the only thing that fucks kids up, and to convince yourself that staying is doing the right thing by them is to neglect to consider what is wrong.

We must model for our children what we want for our children. You are being kept silent by the control of an abuser.

Have you taken any professional advice? Please do.

Home - Women's Aid (womensaid.org.uk)

Not a woman, but I wondered about similar scenario. I equated "giving up" with failure, wondering if there was just this perspective or idea that would help and trusting I guess that she was similar. That it was some kind of communication problem. I don't think it's ever that simple, even in the best cases. Then of course our own fear of change vs the bullshit we (think we) know how to cope with

There are some great men. My dad was the best. My ex husband was an abusive twat but my new partner is the loveliest most helpful man. It’s been 4 years, hes been in the thick of it with a baby, the house, me and my illness. There is love after abuse, you’ve just got to be brave enough. It was difficult for my eldest but she has come through it and she lives and laughs with us. I’m happy I’m modelling this relationship. She loves her”step dad” she has mixed feelings about her real dad because he still shouts etc.

@Rainbow03 I'm pleased you've found such a good relationship. I'm put off men by life. Taken 40 years but i can honestly say I have no interest in men or babies or intimacy. How often does your DD see her DF?

@MsLuxLisbon I don't know if it's bad luck. I think I attract them maybe.

@Watchkeys @AbFabDaaaaahling yes, I know its loveless. But isn't that better than no money/courts/50% of their lives spent with neglectful dad/other partners/poss changing schools? They want stability and predictability no? I can't guarantee that if I leave.

Because their parents were the same and it's all they know. Because they cannot afford to live alone.

I'm extremely lucky that the Bank of M&D helped me buy a house so I could afford to split and didn't have to put up with any more crap from my ex.

Yes, they’ve gone backwards. I left school in the 80s. Three of my schoolmates got married in their early to mid 20s - all three divorced the useless twats they married within years. No DC, but other friends got rid of awful Hs with DC in their 30s. Twenty years on and I’m reading posts like these - very depressing.

I had a DM who worked (professional career that she worked her way into via night school classes) and a DF who stayed home with us on the nights DM was at college, bathed us and did bed time, and taught me to take no crap from anyone. No low bar for me.

Where are all the great men? I've never managed to find one and I'm 62. I brought up my DS alone, I have my own modest home and my career.
I'd love a decent partner and only have a few reasonable but non negotiable requests.
That he owns his own home, has a job and a pension, is prepared to take on 50% of the load and work with me.
What there actually is out there. Sad whiny cocklodgers with nothing who expect me to be their mum.
So I'm still single.
My ex husband left me because he wanted to do swinging and BDSM. He lives in a shitty bedsit and has nothing but apparently his seedy lifestyle is better than doing some occasional washing up???
What the he is wrong with men now.

@TooManySlipperz I was off men, in the midst of a metal breakdown, was at court, I never thought in a million years I’d meet my partner. He was just a breath of fresh air. I lt wasn’t right away, I was single for a few years. My ex sees our daughter every other weekend. It was court ordered after years of no contact (court ordered). He is still abusive. He never could understand that yes although he wasn’t intentionally doing what he was doing it still had devastating impacts none the less. Because he refused to look at himself and put the blame elsewhere he’s exactly the same, still flying off the handle and expecting everyone to just deal with it. I’m teaching my daughter to not minimise how she feels for him. It’s never ok to shout and scare people. It’s all I can do. She has a safe home here most of the time so it’s damage limitation.

I had an amazing farther. But he did unfortunately placate my mum. There was no love there and he did teach me that I should put up and accept things I shouldn’t. They modelled the type of marriage that got me stuck in my abusive marriage. I can’t agree more with posters who say to model the relationships you want your children in. Even if that means breaking up and showing your children it’s ok to leave something that’s not good. It’s not failure it will show them that they can do the same.

Sorry I answered someone else’s question but it’s similar experience.

Yes, a lot is down to upbringing. If men are allowed not to do chores, or it’s ok if they mess them up, you’ve got a job on your hands. Even then it can still be tackled successfully. I won’t tolerate the pass- agg comments like ‘well I won’t bother doing it at all then’. On the odd occasion I’ve had one of those, I make it clear that if I have to do that chore, something else of his will not get done by me. And I stick to it. Laundry? I’m perfectly capable of doing mine and DSs, and leaving DHs. If he doesn’t iron his stuff and leaves it blocking the laundry basket? I dump it in his wardrobe so I’ve got room for the fresh washing. Mail left hanging around? I dump it in his office. Clothes on floor instead of in laundry basket? I chuck them in his wardrobe. No shouting or ‘nagging’, just action.

But then I don’t have one who can’t be bothered to look after his kids or goes out drinking all the time. You’ve got huge problems if you’ve got one of those.

@Maray1967 what if you've got one who does his own laundry, looks after the kids, doesn't drink, doesn't have affairs, goes to work - but there is no love, no kindness, no support?

@Makeitstop9 gosh. I worry that divorce will teach my kids to feel bitter and not trusting in relationships? But maybe staying is worse for their perception of relationships. My home is conflict free but that's certainly because of me doing lots of placating and holding my tongue rather than anything else. My kids are young. I don't think they understand any of that. But I guess they will as they get older. I'm pleased you found someone who sounds so great. I guess I know in my heart that things would be better if we split but I don't know if I have the stomach for how awful it will get

Ok. Lets say that your Dh IS one of these men. How many others do you know who reach the same standards of respectability, decency, and the willingness to put in 50/50 effort in every aspect of the relationship?

How many men do you know who raise up their women, instead of causing them more stress, emotional upheaval and dissapointment than they would feel if they were single? Men who do a REAL fair share of the housework and life load. Who are supportive, thoughtful and dedicated to the emotional well being of their wives and children. Who take the time to understand the impact of their behaviours on the people in their lives, and who actively try to be the best partner they can?

Nearly EVERY woman I know gives this in a relationship. Yet ive never met a man who truly does. If I really, really think about it there may be ONE out of all the guys I know who genuinely gives equally mentally, physically and emotionally in their relationship. I know hundreds of couples.

My point is that it should be the norm, and yet overwhelmingly it is not, to every woman I knows detrement.

People were doing this way before Instagram. Most of my friends' parents are all like this, mine included. Can't stand each other, should have divorced decades ago, but they were childhood sweethearts bla bla bla then they had kids so they had to get married, and they just put on the 'ol song an dance for friends and family cos they're stuck with each other now and too beaten down to do anything about it.

@TooManySlipperz I don’t really have the answers and I suppose it could sound selfish wanting to have a nice happy life. I grew up in a house where there was no love and kisses and cuddles between my parents and it affected me. Whether I’d have been affected if they spilt I don’t know as that didn’t happen. I look at it as damage control as you dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t. It’s difficult.

@Asantesauna, sorry to write as a man.
I have lived in countries where this behaviour in a man is seen as something special and I must say the U was certainly not one of those nations. It has always been taken for granted.
As a man, what you experience as being taken for granted in women, is something most men I know would see as truely exceptional and precious.
There does seem to be a huge perception gap which I do not see elsewhere as much.

Hi Sweden99
Good to have a mans perspective.
Was a little confused by the first part of your post. Are you saying that it is taken for granted in the UK that a man will put in as much effort as a woman? That it is perceived here that they do in fact do so? It hasn’t at all been my experience nor one I’ve observed, but I’m interested in your viewpoint here.

I would love to see a generation emerge where this is the case, for my son as much as my daughter. If we can achieve it as a society I think it would make for happier men AND women.

From a mans perspective how do you think we can move towards this and what do you think are the barriers to it being possible?