Page 17 | I’m a British female going abroad with fiance and will marry him Islamically- anything I need to consider?

Greyrabbit24 · 2024-04-28T10:36:31+00:00

My fiance and I are in our 20s. We are planning a visit abroad to his home country, which is Arab. We’ll be spending a day in his family’s home before travelling around the country on our own. My fiance is not religious but his family is. We will be having a nikah, the Islamic wedding, it will be a small family thing where the imam comes to the home to give a short ceremony. My fiance is not religious at all and this is more of a thing done to please his family. We will be arriving late at their home so they’ve said it’s ok if we sleep together for this night as it’s one night before the nikah. I’m also aware that I’ll have to be very covered and my fiance suggested I cover my hair during the ceremony. Just wondered if anyone had any experience with this? I’m expecting it to be a small easy thing- is there anything else worth considering? I want to be respectful to them but at the same time I don’t want to lose myself trying to please them. Thanks all!

sashh · 30/04/2024 04:02

Blah12345678999 · 29/04/2024 10:02

Also think this is better posted on a board where people have more familiarity and one on one experience with Muslim people, countries etc as I think a lot of people’s experiences in the UK with Muslim culture comes through the media so by default you will be viewed as being in immediate danger by a lot of people just be being associated with someone linked to the Muslim culture and faith.

So you don't think any of us have Muslim friends, neighbours, work colleagues or spouses?

Not one of us has visited a country with a Muslim man? Or a muslim woman?

sheitani · 30/04/2024 20:57

Blah12345678999 · 29/04/2024 10:07

Also everyone I know who moved to Dubai with plans of just staying for a year or so never came back 🤷🏻‍♀️ and they were both male and female and of diverse backgrounds - although were born and raised in western countries.

Former UAE resident here.
Dubai (& several other Muslim-majority states) operate on 2 levels. There is a veneer of Westernisation: people can buy alcohol in certain venues, go to nightclubs, wear swimwear on beaches, wear Western clothes, etc. But underneath is a deeply conservative Muslim society. And woe betide if you should fall foul of local laws which you are probably not aware of. Search "banged up in Dubai" for some eye-opening cases.
The law's treatment of women is very different from the UK. Marital rape is not recognised. Husbands can (and indeed should) beat their wives if the wife is "disobedient". Wives cannot use contraceptives unless their husband agrees. Extra-marital sex is punishable by a number of lashes. Women who have reported being raped have been found guily of "adultery" and have been punished.
Do not be fooled by the superficial Westernisation.

Bananasinpyjamas1988 · 30/04/2024 21:53

Meadowfinch · 29/04/2024 01:09

@strawberrycheesecakey Posters are not unreasonable at all.

Posters' concerns are that the OP is travelling to a country she doesn't know, where she doesn't speak or understand the language, has no understanding of local laws and where she will be isolated from her family. She may be signing a contract that she cannot read. She may be entering into a legal contract without understanding the terms or their implications.

And that she is doing so at the request of a man who has told her to lie.

Take the word Islamic out, and my concerns would be exactly the same regardless of the country or religion.

The OP will be making herself profoundly vulnerable and the concerns of others are perfectly valid.

You don’t sign anything as part of a nikah. I believe as a female marrying a Muslim male you do need to convert though - usually done as part of the ceremony (you say some words three times).

sashh · 01/05/2024 05:40

Bananasinpyjamas1988 · 30/04/2024 21:53

You don’t sign anything as part of a nikah. I believe as a female marrying a Muslim male you do need to convert though - usually done as part of the ceremony (you say some words three times).

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Er.

Yes you do sign something. You sign a marriage contract. Have you ever been to a nikah? The bride and groom can be in separate rooms.

A Muslim man can marry a Jewish or Christian woman, a Muslim woman can only marry a Muslim man.

Bananasinpyjamas1988 · 01/05/2024 08:20

sashh · 01/05/2024 05:40

Er.

Yes you do sign something. You sign a marriage contract. Have you ever been to a nikah? The bride and groom can be in separate rooms.

A Muslim man can marry a Jewish or Christian woman, a Muslim woman can only marry a Muslim man.

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Yes, I had a nikah. I didn’t sign anything.

Blah12345678999 · 01/05/2024 10:15

sheitani · 30/04/2024 20:57

Former UAE resident here.
Dubai (& several other Muslim-majority states) operate on 2 levels. There is a veneer of Westernisation: people can buy alcohol in certain venues, go to nightclubs, wear swimwear on beaches, wear Western clothes, etc. But underneath is a deeply conservative Muslim society. And woe betide if you should fall foul of local laws which you are probably not aware of. Search "banged up in Dubai" for some eye-opening cases.
The law's treatment of women is very different from the UK. Marital rape is not recognised. Husbands can (and indeed should) beat their wives if the wife is "disobedient". Wives cannot use contraceptives unless their husband agrees. Extra-marital sex is punishable by a number of lashes. Women who have reported being raped have been found guily of "adultery" and have been punished.
Do not be fooled by the superficial Westernisation.

Show quote history

Yes, I don’t deny these laws exist and some of these laws were also in existence in the UK until not really that long ago… I haven’t lived there myself and I am not a female UAE citizen where there does seem to be an imbalance with the laws between men and women. However I can only go on first hand knowledge I have of close friends and family that live there, and they only have positive things to say and don’t really intend on returning to the UK/Western home country, one of them also had a gf for a number of years there and they’re now married and I don’t believe they had any of these issues as I’m pretty sure they would have left otherwise and they’re not in prison! Maybe there is more of a turning a blind eye to expats 🤷🏻‍♀️ All have been there around 10 years and only had an intention of staying for 1-2 years initially.

Blah12345678999 · 01/05/2024 10:17

Marital rape only became recognised in the UK in 1992 although thank goodness it is recognised here!

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 01/05/2024 10:59

Blah12345678999 · 29/04/2024 11:29

I don’t know if it makes a difference if the woman goes there with a well paid job perhaps, which is how it worked for my female friends. The only issue was that their partners couldn’t go with them to Dubai unless they also had a job whereas if it was the other way round and the man had a job the woman wouldn’t have needed one if that makes sense which I personally think is unfair. However none of the people I know have to cover their hair or faces etc they just all seem quite glam and well put together and very financially comfortable and wealthy! I agree the Labour issues are more of a concern, some terrible things about the conditions with that, but it’s a tale as old as time, those with less options, money, financial power are always taken advantage of!

I have no idea about Arab women out there apart from women I saw with my friend and also my friend.

Most of the Western women I saw in Dubai especially in tourist areas like Jumeriah Beach and if I was with western people then I was told it was ok to wear eg shorts, mini skirts, bikinis. With my Muslim friend though, there’s no way I would’ve worn this as I didn’t want to show her up or make her into a topic of gossip.

What was interesting is you got friends of hers there who’d ask you a lot in private about western lifestyle and tell you if they knew women who were less haram then them and of course, dress is more relaxed in their own homes. One woman when she heard where I worked (near Marylebone high street) met up with me on a family visit to see her relatives in London and we did the “lingerie” shopping in M&S, Selfridges etc plus clothes for her and her kids. She was getting lots of pressure from relatives and friends for her 8 year old DD to wear a hijab (the DD didn’t want to do it yet), her DH didn’t actually care either way. She did say as others said that some husbands were strict and followed laws of the area re forced sex and so on but she and my other friend personally stood up for themselves and if their husbands ever tried that, they were London girls who were quite savvy. I believe my friend actually threatened to leave and divorce her DH at one point if he didn’t step up re what she could and couldn’t do, and was less controlling whilst they lived there and her DM supported her.

I do think a lot of the younger more risqué Emirati behaviour is partly powered by influencer types whose husbands don’t mind a certain amount of “show” especially if it’s business like, but a lot of what I heard of is ultimately controlled by the husbands. I did hear of people drinking alcohol which is supposed to be haram, but at some events especially if you mixed with westerners you were encouraged to have at least a couple of low/no alcohol drinks which could be switched to alcoholic ones easily. Like I said the women I met looked down a bit on that behaviour.

To me as a white westernised woman it’s never something I’ve experienced. The only possible comparable thing would be in Ireland where my stepdad is from where you were looked down on as DM
was if you weren’t married or were divorced as DM was.

Blah12345678999 · 01/05/2024 12:09

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 01/05/2024 10:59

I have no idea about Arab women out there apart from women I saw with my friend and also my friend.

Most of the Western women I saw in Dubai especially in tourist areas like Jumeriah Beach and if I was with western people then I was told it was ok to wear eg shorts, mini skirts, bikinis. With my Muslim friend though, there’s no way I would’ve worn this as I didn’t want to show her up or make her into a topic of gossip.

What was interesting is you got friends of hers there who’d ask you a lot in private about western lifestyle and tell you if they knew women who were less haram then them and of course, dress is more relaxed in their own homes. One woman when she heard where I worked (near Marylebone high street) met up with me on a family visit to see her relatives in London and we did the “lingerie” shopping in M&S, Selfridges etc plus clothes for her and her kids. She was getting lots of pressure from relatives and friends for her 8 year old DD to wear a hijab (the DD didn’t want to do it yet), her DH didn’t actually care either way. She did say as others said that some husbands were strict and followed laws of the area re forced sex and so on but she and my other friend personally stood up for themselves and if their husbands ever tried that, they were London girls who were quite savvy. I believe my friend actually threatened to leave and divorce her DH at one point if he didn’t step up re what she could and couldn’t do, and was less controlling whilst they lived there and her DM supported her.

I do think a lot of the younger more risqué Emirati behaviour is partly powered by influencer types whose husbands don’t mind a certain amount of “show” especially if it’s business like, but a lot of what I heard of is ultimately controlled by the husbands. I did hear of people drinking alcohol which is supposed to be haram, but at some events especially if you mixed with westerners you were encouraged to have at least a couple of low/no alcohol drinks which could be switched to alcoholic ones easily. Like I said the women I met looked down a bit on that behaviour.

To me as a white westernised woman it’s never something I’ve experienced. The only possible comparable thing would be in Ireland where my stepdad is from where you were looked down on as DM
was if you weren’t married or were divorced as DM was.

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Hmmm i suppose every case is different but I have close friends there from Muslim families but raised in the UK and they’ve definitely done very well out there, they were also the ones who went out there having been offered well paid jobs which they’ve really excelled in and they’re not worried about what they wear, wear western clothing, show their hair etc… 🤷🏻‍♀️ actually these friends are the wealthiest in my circle of friends, and one earns more than her muslim hubby which he has no problems with… Again I’m going on experiences of people I actually know and ime I wouldn’t say they’re anomalies either…

Blah12345678999 · 01/05/2024 12:11

However where I would say I have no first hand knowledge is with actual female UAE citizens 🤷🏻‍♀️ where the rules might be different

Blah12345678999 · 01/05/2024 12:15

Actually this is why I’m mindful of what’s said in the press because these friends are the ones who’ve helped with me really progress in my career and be in a very good place financial wise because of their advice etc If I’d dismissed them as being oppressed because of their backgrounds I’m really not sure if I’d be in my current situation!

therealcookiemonster · 01/05/2024 12:41

imagine Muslim women writing about non Muslim women in the same way they are being written about in this thread
voyeuristic and creepy

Oakstreet · 01/05/2024 13:39

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 28/04/2024 12:21

I’d have to be 100% sure that my current fiance doesn’t change from not being religious now to changing his stance on this once he’s married to you. I’ve heard of a few Muslim men who do this, not all, but a few. In fact I was warned off a Persian man a few years ago for this reason by a British Iraqi friend of mine.

Only yesterday I was speaking to a friend in her shop about her NDN from Bangladesh, trapped in a marriage where her MIL and BIL abuse her (physically too), she’s petrified to do anything, her DH may help her but he may side with his family as is often the case.

I'm not a Muslim, but I have very close friend and I've been to Jordan a few times. Yes, it's very true that many say that aren't religious, until marriage, but deep down they always go back to their religion and become quite religious too. What country is he from?

sashh · 02/05/2024 05:47

Bananasinpyjamas1988 · 01/05/2024 08:20

Yes, I had a nikah. I didn’t sign anything.

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Are you sure you had a Nikah? It is literally the marriage contract.

DramaLlamaBangBang · 02/05/2024 09:16

sashh · 02/05/2024 05:47

Are you sure you had a Nikah? It is literally the marriage contract.

Show quote history

It seems from.this threadvthatbtherecare two different types, and the OP needs to know which one it is. In some countries (like the UK) the Nikkah is not legally binding so you have to have a registry office marriage for the contract, and in other countries the Nikkah is legally binding. It's the same with sll religious marriages. Sometimes the priest etc is also a registrar ( Ibthink in the UK its only Christian ceremonies but I'm not sure) and you sign the contract but others you have to have a civil ceremony too.