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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
FinkleFlint · 22/04/2024 13:52

Maray1967 · 22/04/2024 13:50

He needs to work very hard to rebuild your trust. It will be your decision as to whether he’s succeeded.

She clearly loved it - the happy attitude the next morning indicates that. I would find a way to make her pay- but I can be vindictive, and you probably don’t have the energy for that just now with a baby to care for.

If I was your other friend who’s currently supporting you, with your permission I’d do it for you.

I read this as the friend overcompensating with breeziness to try and mask the weirdness.

Maray1967 · 22/04/2024 13:55

FinkleFlint · 22/04/2024 13:52

I read this as the friend overcompensating with breeziness to try and mask the weirdness.

Yes, you might be right. I’d still make sure every woman she socialises with knows what she is capable of doing. Only with OP’s permission of course.

albatrossjoe · 22/04/2024 13:56

bracemyselfagain · 22/04/2024 11:12

Thing is ...
it was denied until you said you'd seen the footage ... sounds like they're more sorry they got caught ...

This was my thought too OP. There's two layers to this - the kiss itself and then the lying about it. I'm not saying whether I think you should stay or leave, as I believe only you can decide that. But it's the lying that would worry me more in some ways, as how does he imagine you're going to be able to trust him again in the future? I also agree with some others who have said his response sounds a little like emotional blackmail for forgiveness. Maybe he does intend it like that or maybe he's just phrased things poorly.
But maybe right now what you need is space to figure out what your relationship means and whether you want to explore repairing it after this? The very least he owes you is time and space to work that out from your side. X

gannett · 22/04/2024 13:56

FinkleFlint · 22/04/2024 13:44

This is the dort of thing that years ago I would have had no problem with

But having seen several husbands and bfs of friends use those late night moments when you’re finishing up drinks as an opportunity to pounce, I’ve revised this attitude. (And mind these are people with whom there had been zero sexual tension or flirting).

There is also research to show the main predictor of cheating is simply opportunity and reduced resistance to temptation – whether that be because someone is emotionally depleted, drunk, or in an intimate setting with someone who is not their partner.

Those late night lingering drinks at home or in the garden when everyone else is in bed are, let’s face it, a very intimate kind of space, and precisely the moment when cheating is likely to happen.

We might also not like to admit it, but our partner’s friends are actually in the unique position of being close and trusted enough to have this kind of access where confidences are shared and intimacies develop. I’m sure the cheating with a friend scenario is commoner than we would like to admit (while still inexcusable).

I've been in those situations a lot (I have never been the first to leave a party or go to bed). Very frequently the last people standing are me and someone else's husband. And nothing happens. We just have drunken chatter, sometimes heart-to-hearts, sometimes a bit of dancing (not with each other) and then go to bed a bit later than everyone else.

Blaming the situation is a bit pathetic, to me. Being alone with someone and a bit drunk doesn't make your lips fall on to theirs. That's a choice they made.

Fraaahnces · 22/04/2024 13:56

I’d be doing a long hard look at the cctv. If it’s been deleted, I’d see a solicitor.

Fraaahnces · 22/04/2024 13:57

*More than just that time obvs. Check specific times you were out and he was home. Esp “working.”

Tlolljs · 22/04/2024 13:57

They are both really unlucky if the first time they kissed they were caught on CCTV.
Ditch the ‘friend’ no question. Take your time about making a decision to leave dh.
Personally I would want the whole truth warts and all. Only then can you make an informed decision.

FinkleFlint · 22/04/2024 13:58

FinkleFlint · 22/04/2024 13:44

This is the dort of thing that years ago I would have had no problem with

But having seen several husbands and bfs of friends use those late night moments when you’re finishing up drinks as an opportunity to pounce, I’ve revised this attitude. (And mind these are people with whom there had been zero sexual tension or flirting).

There is also research to show the main predictor of cheating is simply opportunity and reduced resistance to temptation – whether that be because someone is emotionally depleted, drunk, or in an intimate setting with someone who is not their partner.

Those late night lingering drinks at home or in the garden when everyone else is in bed are, let’s face it, a very intimate kind of space, and precisely the moment when cheating is likely to happen.

We might also not like to admit it, but our partner’s friends are actually in the unique position of being close and trusted enough to have this kind of access where confidences are shared and intimacies develop. I’m sure the cheating with a friend scenario is commoner than we would like to admit (while still inexcusable).

All that being said, the OP is 100% in no way to blame here. Of course you absolutely should be able to trust your friend and husband not to neck each other if left unsupervised, and the only people responsible for their lousy behaviour is them.

Avatartar · 22/04/2024 13:59

There’s no regret from your “mate” given her attitude in the morning. She loved it! Glad you have ditched her.
once a cheat always a cheat I’m sorry to say. He cheated on you early on and here he is again. You don’ t get on, he would t consider marriage counselling before.
I say check out mentally and stay physically until the DCs are on their feet and into nursery. You will naturally find yourself a bit more again then and in the meantime a spare pair of hands to split the mundane 24/7 chores with is useful.
Hard mentally, but great if you can manage that and plan for your future while you grind these formative years out. Get out with baby, get husband on cook, clean rota to facilitate your calendar

Blondiebeachbabe · 22/04/2024 14:04

My first H did similar, many many times. We too had small children, so I did try to move past it, but after 4 years, I threw in the towel. In that 4 year period, he just did more of the same. Always when drunk, and always with my friends.

As we were in the process of separating, he slept with my very best friend in the world, so I actually lost my marriage and my friend at the same time. I absolutely hate him now. He has done the same in every subsequent relationship, so I think that's just who he is.

If I was in your shoes now, with my current DH, I'd walk away without hesitation. It's a huge betrayal from both of them, in your bloody house while you sleep upstairs (I also had this scenario as well).

Please, please don't continue your relationship with your "friend" either. She's absolute scum.

KittyWindbag · 22/04/2024 14:04

IncompleteSenten · 22/04/2024 11:06

"The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar."

Or
Maybe there's more to this than what you saw and he has been worried alcohol may loosen her tongue.

Sorry to say this was my first thought.

a few years ago I found out my husband was having an emotional affair. Not with a friend of mine. I forgave it, although to be frank it completely changed me and if we didn’t have kids and have some pretty unusual circumstances I would never have stayed.

you do have children. So I understand why, based only on this evidence, that you might not want to blow your life up over a kiss.

but he has to be prepared for so much resentment and hurt. And anger. Mine bubbles up unexpectedly sometimes and I feel like I’m back at square one.

She’s gone completely. You have kids with him, so whatever happens he will be in your life. but no need to see her again ever. Don’t let her try to work her magic on you. I don’t buy the narrative about not blaming the other woman. It’s disrespectful and gross to try it on with a married man and apart from all that she was your dear friend and she forfeited all your years for something slimy and wrong.

I wish you so much luck OP. And the strength to make the best decision for YOU.

EmpressSoleil · 22/04/2024 14:07

I had a friend I used to go and stay with years ago. She went up to bed and left me and her partner drinking (I was sleeping in the lounge) and he tried to kiss me. So I agree that it's not an uncommon scenario.

Obviously the friendship has to be over. Especially as it looks like she made the first move.

The problem with forgiving him, if that's what you want. Is are you then forever going to wary about leaving him alone with a friend? For me, almost worse than any cheating itself, are the feelings of mistrust that you're left with. That's why I personally have to have a hard line on any form of cheating as I know that I would never be able to regain any trust. Which is no way to live. Its a question to ask yourself, could you see yourself trusting him in future?

Fuzziduck · 22/04/2024 14:07

As it was your friend, could he not have said "I'll be the one to get up with the baby, and go to bed early"?
That's what my husband does.

Unless, he did want some time alone.
Shitty all round. But regardless what you decide to go, therapy is worth a shout.

ClawedButler · 22/04/2024 14:09

I wouldn't end the friendship or marriage over this, but that doesn't matter. Because it's not MY marriage and MY friendship.

You feel hurt and confused and are now second-guessing yourself as to what you should do and feel and say.

My advice would be to not make any decisions just now. You don't need to. You can make decisions at a time that's right for you. You can process your feelings in whatever timeframe you need.

Focus just on today, and what you need to get done (feed/change the baby, feed/change yourself, bugger off to Cornwall, shut yourself in your bedroom, punch a pillow - whatever you need to do).

Don't worry about what's right or fair or reasonable right now - you're still in shock, and need to take care of yourself at the moment.

HarpieDuJour · 22/04/2024 14:13

When you found out about his previous cheating, OP, how did that come about? Did someone tell you, or did you find evidence? How sure are you that these two instances are the only times he has cheated on you?

I agree that this isn't the time to be making big decisions, but on the face of it, he doesn't seem like a man worth fighting for. I'm so sorry.

FinkleFlint · 22/04/2024 14:16

gannett · 22/04/2024 13:56

I've been in those situations a lot (I have never been the first to leave a party or go to bed). Very frequently the last people standing are me and someone else's husband. And nothing happens. We just have drunken chatter, sometimes heart-to-hearts, sometimes a bit of dancing (not with each other) and then go to bed a bit later than everyone else.

Blaming the situation is a bit pathetic, to me. Being alone with someone and a bit drunk doesn't make your lips fall on to theirs. That's a choice they made.

Not blaming the situation at all, it’s completely on them.

However being drunk alone together late at night, and sharing intimacies about emotional experiences, is the exact kind of scenario that plenty of decent guys would avoid, just as it’s opening up an intimate atmosphere that invites a change in the tone of the relationship.

Maddy70 · 22/04/2024 14:16

Nothing actually happened.... drink happened....

You have made your point. I doubt anything like that would ever happen again.

Is it really worth tearing a family apart for?

Lookingoutside · 22/04/2024 14:18

OP, something about the tone of your posts suggests that you haven’t been happy in the relationship anyway? Never mind the whole truth of what they’ve done.

You say she has tried to get his attention before? She can’t be a good friend to you, and is unable to be regardless of what she wants or believes.

It sounds like he will take up attention and physical contact with others when it is offered and bugger the impact it has on you.

You deserve more than this.

FinkleFlint · 22/04/2024 14:19

Maddy70 · 22/04/2024 14:16

Nothing actually happened.... drink happened....

You have made your point. I doubt anything like that would ever happen again.

Is it really worth tearing a family apart for?

If they separate it will be the DH who has torn the family apart, not OP.

SallyWD · 22/04/2024 14:21

As long as I was sure that this drunken kiss or dance or whatever, was the only thing that has ever happened between them, and as long as DH was a good husband who I was happy with - then I wouldn't be ending ending my marriage over it.
You said they'd been drinking all night. I know people always say being drunk isn't an excuse but it really, really changes how a person feels and behaves. I know from experience.
I think it was a stupid mistake and I'd move on.

Forwarder · 22/04/2024 14:21

I hope this doesn't read as victim blaming, but leaving your husband alone, boozed up, with a flirty, attractive, attention seeking woman maybe isn't a good plan. An awful lot of cheating is opportunistic. On the plus side, he clearly had the option to go further with the 'friend' but didn't.

Does this woman have kids?

RetroTotty · 22/04/2024 14:21

People who do shit like this have a really good nack of making you feel sorry for them

Oh yes. Be wary.

Trytobeoptimistic · 22/04/2024 14:24

Maddy70 · 22/04/2024 14:16

Nothing actually happened.... drink happened....

You have made your point. I doubt anything like that would ever happen again.

Is it really worth tearing a family apart for?

But something did happen.
They kissed, hugged and danced . And according to the DH shared an intimate emotional moment.
Then they lied about it.
It must beg the question what other such moments have they shared.

Blackcats7 · 22/04/2024 14:25

My ex husband had a long affair with my best friend and I finally found out by accidentally coming across photos of the two of them on my computer because the deceitful scumbag had left his phone synced to it.
I then went round to confront her and through a pane of glass in her front door saw my husband bollock naked in her kitchen.
I think when you have actually seen something this awful you can’t unsee it and this makes it a thousand times worse because that image is always there.
I divorced the fucker and cut her off straight away.
I can never forgive either of them.
I honestly don’t know if you can get past this even if you want to. I think if you might want to stay with him but aren’t sure I would tell him you need time to process what they did and you will let him know your decision then with whatever stipulations you need to make.
If at all possible he should go away for a while for you to come to a decision without him pressuring you in any way.
So very sorry OP.

FangsForTheMemory · 22/04/2024 14:32

How far back on the CCTV did you go? Did you check there’s nothing worse on it?

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