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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
Opentooffers · 10/09/2024 12:42

It sounds like you have a fair sized house, so can get your separate space still within it. Beyond that, you've probably got the ick due to his toxic masculinity, which is fair. It takes as long as it takes, you don't have to decide anything, take time to grieve, I'm sorry for your loss.
Doesn't sound like he's in a rush to make changes to the situation. It's not about that 1 night anymore, but that it happened is probably useful to him and others as a reason to ultimately split when the time is right. A simple excuse to bow out, as he will never get or understand toxic masculinity, because to him, he's just being right in his view of women.

Snappers3 · 10/09/2024 12:48

OP, please try and find some kindness towards yourself as your mum would undoubtedly counsel you to.

You are absolutely reeling and will be for a very long time.

NOT the time to make any rash decisions.

As a mother I would advise that you do nothing any time soon.
Share the house, and childcare.
Get him to do his fair share of EVERYTHING.
Make sure he has BOTH children so you can visit your father and sister and take down time regularly.

This is not the time to call time.
Put your needs front and centre so that you can get through this awful time with maximum support.
Forget about him, just get your needs met.

Well done for getting rid of that awful woman.

Keep posting, we are here for you.
Sincere condolences on the tragic lost of your wonderful mum.

Nicebloomers · 10/09/2024 12:49

I’m so sorry for the loss of your mother, what a devastating blow. You really have so much going on, it must be exhausting. Agree with pp about you not feeling like you’re somehow letting the side down because you’ve not done XYZ yet. You work to your own timescale. It’s a lot and you need to do things when it’s right for you. You’re not under any illusions. Glad the former friend has got the message finally. May we all be lucky enough to find a friend as good as Brilliant friend! Hang in there and be kind to yourself.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 10/09/2024 12:53

It’s not so much his view of women, it’s his view that men discussing emotions or in any way connecting with them is ‘weak’.

His own dad was widowed two years ago and he just bottled everything up and then exhibited some strange behaviours (inappropriate relationship with a younger woman, poor diet, poor housekeeping etc).

My dad is very open and talks about his feelings and how sad he is that my mum died. My dad had some disastrous luck years ago and his finances are difficult.

My H said because my dad is struggling financially and is open, he considers him to be ‘weak’ and certainly much weaker than his dad.

It was raised in a broader context (I was expressing how I agreed with the therapist who said he needed to allow his emotions in and not use aggression to shut me down when I ask difficult questions). And now my gaze has been dragged back to the shitshow that is our marriage.

OP posts:
Nicebloomers · 10/09/2024 13:00

@Totalfuckingshitshow I didn’t realise we were all playing the ‘my dad is better than yours’ competition. He does sound like a monumental prat. What a callous comment after your father had just lost his wife. Do ‘strong’ men snog other women while their wives are a couple of rooms away and ruin their marriages then? I’ll make a note of that. Tell your husband thanks.

You’ll be much better off without his nonsense.

Conniebygaslight · 10/09/2024 13:27

My heart breaks for you OP

AcrossthePond55 · 10/09/2024 15:14

"So I’ve let everyone down, mostly myself, because my action became inaction...."

@Totalfuckingshitshow

No. You haven't let anyone down. You've had a major loss. You're grieving. In those situations we cope any way we can. We shouldn't think about 'right or wrong' because of the other things that were going on in our lives at the time. You coped the way your mind told you to cope. And that's OK. And now, if the grief is allowing you to think about your future, you will pick up the threads of your life and move forward at your own pace. And that's OK, too.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your mum.

Delphinium20 · 10/09/2024 15:45

I lost my mother too...outside of losing our children, for most of us with a good mother or even a mother we're close to (but possibly tension-filled) that loss is one of the greatest we will ever go through. It takes a long time to come to peace with it, and your mother died when your kids were little, so you have that other grief of them not knowing her, which will come up at times you least expect it in the future. I know, mine died when my youngest was a baby.

What you're going through is HUGE...so it's no wonder that you've put the dissolution of your marriage on the back burner. It's too much to deal with that AND the loss of your dear mum. The status quo is probably the best thing for now, assuming that he's not physically abusive or dangerous or sucking your money away.

Take your time. There's a reason people advise loved ones to hold off on any major decisions until at least a year has passed since the loss...it's because taking on too much stress (even stress that means good things are happening) is a weight and we can make imperfect decisions under that burden of grief.

Peace to you and be kind to yourself. You'll be okay, but don't push yourself to do anything except care for your family and yourself. screw the husband's needs...he obviously knows how to put himself first.

keffie12 · 10/09/2024 15:49

@Totalfuckingshitshow I am so sorry for your loss. The loss of a parent especially your mom is massive. I spoke to my mom everyday so I get it. I really do. I'm not going to say anymore than that as words don't make things better.

I'm just going to leave you this link for CRUSE bereavement for if and when you are ready. It is a free service They are none profit making charity.

I used them about a year after my late husband passed 5 year ago. I've just reconnected with them as my MiL passed earlier this year. Much love and virtual hugs 🫂

www.cruse.org.uk/get-support/

Secondstart1001 · 10/09/2024 16:10

Op you were in my thoughts a few weeks ago and I was wondering how you were.
I am so sorry for the loss of your mother, how heartbreaking for you and your father.
Sorry that the reality is that your husband cannot be who you need him to be and also that you are kind of “stuck” for now.
I lived with my ExH while we were separated for a while and I send you my solidarity and bedt wishes. Please continue to have hope in your heart that this situation isn’t permanent though I know at the moment, it feels like there is no way out 💐

dibly · 10/09/2024 16:13

Calliopespa · 10/09/2024 12:34

I’m sorry for your Lois OP.

Well done ( to you and friend) for getting rid of FF ( again!)

OP what I would say is your life is your life. It’s probably messy and imperfect like everyone else’s . But it is yours.

Sometimes these threads are great for support, but sometimes I feel like they play God with other people and decree what Must Happen.

You are entitled to be doing and living with whomsoever you want. You don’t need to feel you’ve failed anyone. If DH is providing support you need, then so be it. He’s far from perfect. But, realistically, we all are.

Only you can decide if or when you are ready to be alone. It’s great to empower women who desperately want to leave, but mentally denying them the option to stay isn’t any better than compelling people to stay in a toxic relationship. Relationships aren’t pristine. You do what you need to do and don’t apologise.

All of this. So sorry about your Mum. I think one huge life change is enough for now, decisions about your longer term future must feel so secondary, just focus on what you need day to day for now and the rest will follow when you’re ready. X

HesterPrincess · 10/09/2024 16:30

I'm so very sorry to hear about your Mum. Take a breath and just focus on getting through each day at this stage - I'm 18 months on from losing my Dad and just starting to feel that there is some light at the end of the tunnel. It absolutely knocked me sideways.

Don't make any decisions while you're grieving - take the fact you're in the same house as a win right now, he can help you get through the basics if nothing else. Don't even give his actions headspace. It'll wait Flowers

Tahlbias · 10/09/2024 16:45

I'm so sorry for your loss OP. I lost my mum, almost 2 years ago now and it's left a great big gaping hole in my life. Sending hugs to you xx

JenniferBooth · 10/09/2024 16:56

So sorry for the loss of your mum @Totalfuckingshitshow You are far too good for your H. you are articulate and intelligent and deserve so much better. I get why you are leaving it for now though. Flowers

Meanwhile as a pp says he is a monumental prat. But what sticks out to me too is that he has a complete lack of emotional intelligence as his comments show. Your dad is not weak Far from it. What nasty things for your H to say

Chatonette · 10/09/2024 19:27

Don’t feel pressured to make any decisions while you’re grieving. But please do take a long, hard look at what you’ve written:

a man who did something really shit, is ultimately a good person despite that, but who has beliefs that I find so toxic and unhealthy that it impacts everything

Maybe it’s time to reflect on whether he is a good person?

pikkumyy77 · 10/09/2024 19:44

Leaving a toxic marriage takes as long as it takes. Please don’t be hard in yourself! What s one-two punch the universe has sent you. It will take time to stop bailing and start beaching and repairing your little boat.

Take all the time and support you can get. But, if I may suggest, occasionally lift your eyes to the far horizon and ask yourself how you can look forward to finding the right person, as your dear father was right for your mother. Because it will be easier to make your move knowing you are aiming to be free, loved, cherished, respected by someone one day than simply leaving this wanker behind.

Totalfuckingshitshow · 10/09/2024 22:06

Thank you everyone. I feel so wrung out. So up and down. I have a therapist now and I’m seeing her about everything. She was dumbfounded when I rang her to pause my sessions and told her why. She couldn’t believe there was more to add to the pile. My beloved dog died the day before my mum too. He was my shadow.

I’ve been left with this terrible feeling of ‘unsafety’. There are no rules. Bad stuff doesn’t happen in threes, it happens as much as it happens. It can keep happening. More could fall on me. And I might get no warning again.

My mum died in her sleep. It was the biggest shock.

I miss my mum so much, it all feels impossible. She was the bravest woman. She had been dealt such a difficult hand in her own life, an appalling childhood full of cruelty and abandonment, and she was fierce in her determination to not hand that to us. She loved us all. And my god did she extend that love to our children. I feel deeply robbed that she’s won’t see my babies grow. My baby girl was in intensive care for a long time and my mum was deeply affected by it. She held it together at home for us. And she loved my son so dearly. He held a special place in her heart.

I talk to her as though she can hear me. I don’t really believe that but it makes me feel less alone and slightly comforted if I can imagine that she can see us, even if we can’t see her anymore. I like to think she can see my children. See them grow and laugh. She missed my baby’s first birthday. My son’s first day of school, his new little uniform. She’d been looking forward to both of them. I hope she could see us all.

I know it makes me sound like a child, I feel like a child, but it’s so scary when you are getting close to the top of the tree.

OP posts:
Jl2014 · 10/09/2024 22:11

You don’t sound like a child at all. It’s an awful loss to have to process on top of everything else. So sorry, OP.

Secondstart1001 · 10/09/2024 22:18

@Totalfuckingshitshow your last update brought tears to my eyes. Wish I could give you a hug 😢
It feels like you can’t be certain of ground under your feet being taken away. You are grieving and you feel insecure as so much has happened in a very very small space of time. It is a lot. The sheer shock of losing your beloved mother hits so hard right now as it’s been a time when you’ve needed her the most. I have no good words of advice except let yourself grieve. Let your H help when he can to give you the space to process it all and accept any help offered. I’m very sorry 💐

CraftyYankee · 10/09/2024 22:25

I'm so sorry OP. And your H is a twat, what kind of awful thing is that to say about your dad? Bad enough to think it but then to actually say it!?!

ZoomyYaris · 10/09/2024 22:35

Keep talking to your mum, tell her about her grandchildren, keep her involved in your life. I did the same with my mum. I don’t find it childish and if it is, so what?

Do what you need to do. Sod everyone else. Take your time making decisions. You’re in shock.

Life will get better, I promise you. x

WearyAuldWumman · 10/09/2024 22:43

Totalfuckingshitshow · 10/09/2024 22:06

Thank you everyone. I feel so wrung out. So up and down. I have a therapist now and I’m seeing her about everything. She was dumbfounded when I rang her to pause my sessions and told her why. She couldn’t believe there was more to add to the pile. My beloved dog died the day before my mum too. He was my shadow.

I’ve been left with this terrible feeling of ‘unsafety’. There are no rules. Bad stuff doesn’t happen in threes, it happens as much as it happens. It can keep happening. More could fall on me. And I might get no warning again.

My mum died in her sleep. It was the biggest shock.

I miss my mum so much, it all feels impossible. She was the bravest woman. She had been dealt such a difficult hand in her own life, an appalling childhood full of cruelty and abandonment, and she was fierce in her determination to not hand that to us. She loved us all. And my god did she extend that love to our children. I feel deeply robbed that she’s won’t see my babies grow. My baby girl was in intensive care for a long time and my mum was deeply affected by it. She held it together at home for us. And she loved my son so dearly. He held a special place in her heart.

I talk to her as though she can hear me. I don’t really believe that but it makes me feel less alone and slightly comforted if I can imagine that she can see us, even if we can’t see her anymore. I like to think she can see my children. See them grow and laugh. She missed my baby’s first birthday. My son’s first day of school, his new little uniform. She’d been looking forward to both of them. I hope she could see us all.

I know it makes me sound like a child, I feel like a child, but it’s so scary when you are getting close to the top of the tree.

I lost my husband 3 years ago. I still talk to him.

His granddaughter's graduation was webcast 2 years ago, so I watched the webcast "with my husband".

Pookerrod · 10/09/2024 22:45

So sorry for your loss. And to echo other PP’s you’ve not let anyone down.

grieving is a long and messy ordeal. As is ending a marriage. There is no right or wrong timescale. Who cares if you are still living with your husband? You need to take one day at a time and do what’s right for you that day. Major changes and life decisions can wait until you are stronger.

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 10/09/2024 22:49

Dear OP, I remember when my Mum died, very suddenly just after my 10-year relationship ended and I was having to move house and change jobs.

I felt as if the ground had crumbled under my feet, not figuratively but literally: I felt as if I was stumbling at every step. I became frightened of crossing the road in case cars appeared speeding from nowhere. The whole world felt like an unsafe place. I had clumsy accidents and caught every passing virus.

I got over it eventually, with help from loving friends and family. But I can’t forget how terrifying it was, and how vulnerable I was.

You are in so much pain already, you didn’t need another loss, and losing your Mum is one of the worst. Be kind and gentle to yourself. Accept all the help you can get. I hope you can feel your mother’s loving spirit backing you up. You will come through this. Xxx

ChiliFiend · 10/09/2024 23:07

My mother also died suddenly and unexpectedly in her sleep, the day my first child was born. It was ten years ago. I don't really know why I'm writing this - just to reach out and let you know I am here, I guess - I see you - and to tell you I survived, and you will too, one day at a time.

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