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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 13:14

Thank you everyone so far. You feel like sage sisters.

I just have so many questions, which I’m writing down to ask. I’m so sad. I feel guilty myself for some stupid reason and I feel like all the onus is on me to make any decisions.

I’ve got a lot out of this thread so far, and I’m so grateful.

OP posts:
Iaskedyouthrice · 22/04/2024 13:14

It sounds like they have been as intimate before, almost like this is normal for them?
I would be looking at the way he is nervous about you going out with her differently too. I mean, he would know exactly what she's like wouldn't he?
He obviously enjoys the attention she gives.
That's not to say they have slept with each other though. This is so shit OP I am sorry. I wouldn't rush to come to a decision, why upend yours and your children's lives because of HIS mistake.
I would be done with her though. She isn't your friend.
Did you ask to look at his phone? Don't be surprised if there has been a lot of contact between them. He will have deleted anything now so don't bother asking.

BulldogMumma · 22/04/2024 13:20

I lost my mum a few weeks ago, I haven't kissed my partners best friend so his excuse is pathetic.
It does sound like there's been interactions between them before, I know my best friend wouldn't put her arms around my partner and kiss him no matter how well they get on, and he also wouldn't feel comfortable crying in front of her.
I feel there's more to this than what you're being told, it's like they're trying to give you the minimum information possible in the hope you'll accept it.
Dig deeper OP

gannett · 22/04/2024 13:21

Don't let them play the "drunken mistake" card. I've sat up late drinking with male friends who have partners, and even talked about emotional things, but it's really bloody easy for everyone involved not to cheat.

Don't fall into the trap of tying yourself in knots over whether the decision you make is the "right" one or not. The wrong decision has already been made, by those two, and whatever you choose to do is what you need to do in light of that. Ending the marriage is neither right nor wrong; staying would be neither right nor wrong. The thing you should focus on to help you make that decision is whether you can trust him again. Not conditionally, not with caveats, but properly. If you can't trust him again you're setting yourself up for a horrendous life of paranoia and misery. And it's not a question of whether trusting him is right or wrong, it's about what you feel.

I think "just a kiss" is a red herring as well. It's the intimacy, the location with you in the same house and the betrayal with your best friend. To my knowledge neither DP nor I have cheated on each other but I've always thought that if he kissed one of my friends in our house, it would be a much greater betrayal than (for example) a one night stand with a stranger while travelling in a different country. In other words the scale of the betrayal is not correlated to how far they actually went.

The knowledge that he'd cheated before would be very, very hard to overlook for me.

Iaskedyouthrice · 22/04/2024 13:22

Do not let him ruin you. You are strong and you can get through this whatever you decide. Do not accept any blame because as soon as you do that he will leap on it. He acted like a nasty piece of shit with no thought for you. You have children, one is a baby and he still did this. Do not take on any guilt whatsoever. Deep breaths and put your needs first. People who do shit like this have a really good nack of making you feel sorry for them. This is about what's best for you and your children now. Not him.

Trytobeoptimistic · 22/04/2024 13:23

I'm another who thinks that what you saw on the cctv demonstrates they have a close and intimate relationship. It doesnt read like an isolated incident.The fact nothing more happened on this occasion might be down to the fact you were present in the house.
I don't think either of them are to be trusted. Good that you have ended the friendship. I would be looking to end the marriage.

RefurbMyAlloys · 22/04/2024 13:24

Sparklfairy · 22/04/2024 11:04

He could (should?) do all of those things anyway. The way you've written it (and my interpretation could be wrong), it's like he will do those things if you get over it. Which means, as you've said, it's you putting limitations on his life to right his wrong... Personally I think it would mean more if it all came from him regardless of what you decided to do re your marriage - that would mean he was showing willing rather than paying a penance you chose iyswim.

And IMO yes, it is cheating. They had an intimate cuddle, they danced, they kissed, they both rewrote history and minimised until you revealed you had hard proof. How can it not be cheating?

Good post, I agree with this. In my opinion, also, its so damn disrespectful to you, OP, and to your relationship, particularly in the house that you two share!

I would be less upset, more bloody sodding furious with the pair of them, how dare they?

It’s cheating, as cheating can take many forms (as we see from posters on MNet ) it was done in your absence, it was intimate, far too close, kissing etc involved, and you don’t know if this was the first time it’s happened.

I wouldn’t accept it in public, say on a group party night with friends, out in a club etc, I’m bloody certain I wouldn’t accept it in my own home… Talk about crapping on your own doorstep!!!

The pair of them are lower than a snakes belly.

Sendind strength, OP🌸

FinkleFlint · 22/04/2024 13:25

I think your reaction is not in the slightest bit unreasonable.

She’s a bitch and deserves no place in your life – behaving in this disgusting way is the ultimate betrayal already, attempting to minimise your (entirely valid) feelings about this is unforgivable.

If it was all fine and dandy why did neither of them mention this quite remarkable development in their relationship the next morning

OP I would feel exactly the same as you, you deserve better, well done for maintaining clear boundaries and not letting this pair of creeps treat you like this.

Your instincts and judgement are spot on.

Whatthefrance2024 · 22/04/2024 13:27

Friendship 10000000000% over
Husband, your call, it was a mistake, can you move on?

RefurbMyAlloys · 22/04/2024 13:29

Just to add - I’ve just seen you’re on mat leave? So you have a baby?

Dear God… I double-down my feelings… disgusting, under-hand, lowlife pair, I am shocked how (some) people behave! Vile.

KiwiOtter · 22/04/2024 13:29

So sorry, this is such a betrayal, and under your roof whilst you were asleep with your baby too.

I agree that it appears they were very comfortable with each other, and it’s likely not the first time they have behaved this.

What’s difficult now is obtaining the full truth out of DH, as he is likely to never reveal it. You could try the relationship counselling and see if anything else is revealed.

Whatthefrance2024 · 22/04/2024 13:29

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:57

Whatever I want. Therapy, stopping drinking, total honesty, starting over…

I don’t want to put limitations on someone’s life though. That feels wrong. I want the two closest people to me to have controlled themselves.

In our early days there was some cheating on his part, when we were very young and hadn’t been together very long, but I never thought it would happen again after marriage and babies and not with my friend. I only found out about the early stuff years later.

Is it cheating? Do you guys see it as cheating? It feels like cheating.

Oh hes done it before, that changes things

wauchoppy · 22/04/2024 13:30

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Whatthefrance2024 · 22/04/2024 13:32

I also think you need to think about how trusting you are, never would I be happy in the situation you left them both in

Kittenkitty · 22/04/2024 13:35

What’s the rest of the relationship like? I think it’s already a bit odd that you went off to bed to get up with the kids, why couldn’t your husband do that? Why didn’t he want you to have a nice evening with a friend?

canyouletthedogoutplease · 22/04/2024 13:36

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 13:09

Yes.

I'd also be wondering if you may have just seen the tip of the iceberg.

Go to her house unannounced when you know you'll catch her in. Calmly tell her that your DH has told you everything and you'd like to hear her version of events. Say little, leave long silcences that she will be tempted to fill, and see what you get out of her. Leave. That's your friendship over with her whatever she says.

Your DH needs to arrange counselling like his life depends on it, plus childcare to enable you to go.

I don't think this is necessarily a marriage ender, but you absolutely do need him to pull his finger out like never before and make a certain and sustained effort to show you that he wants to remain married to the mother of his children. You've just had his baby if you're on mat leave, and he's taking the piss.

Convey to him that he needs to start being absolutely honest with you, starting now, because if you get a sniff of him trying to swerve or pull the wool over your eyes you will be out of there. He's got one chance, make him know that he needs to use it very wisely.

You'll get through this one way or another, marriages have survived and changed and grown through worse, but he needs to sharpen up quick for this to happen.

Fraaahnces · 22/04/2024 13:39

So let me get this right…
Your relationship wasn’t valuable enough to work on when YOU were asking for it?
He’s crying with and snogging your BF?
Your relationship suddenly becomes valuable when you catch him at it….? *With someone he’s actively attempted to dissuade you from hanging out with???

This has been going on for ages. Bin them both. He just doesn’t want to deal with the fallout from being the cheating bastard “bad guy.”

Takenoprisoner · 22/04/2024 13:40

Sorry you're going through this op. what a betrayal. a double betrayal. You've had lots of brilliant and astute advice so far. I just wanted to ask have you ditched the friend for good? I think you can only make a clear headed decision once she's completely out of the picture.

WhiteLeopard · 22/04/2024 13:42

I've been with my DH for 27 years. During that time, he has once kissed someone. (OK I know I can't be 100% sure that he's never done anything else that I don't know about- but that's true of all relationships.) To me, that one brief kiss does not negate the many years of love that he has shown me. It is possible to forgive him and move on OP.

FinkleFlint · 22/04/2024 13:44

Whatthefrance2024 · 22/04/2024 13:32

I also think you need to think about how trusting you are, never would I be happy in the situation you left them both in

This is the dort of thing that years ago I would have had no problem with

But having seen several husbands and bfs of friends use those late night moments when you’re finishing up drinks as an opportunity to pounce, I’ve revised this attitude. (And mind these are people with whom there had been zero sexual tension or flirting).

There is also research to show the main predictor of cheating is simply opportunity and reduced resistance to temptation – whether that be because someone is emotionally depleted, drunk, or in an intimate setting with someone who is not their partner.

Those late night lingering drinks at home or in the garden when everyone else is in bed are, let’s face it, a very intimate kind of space, and precisely the moment when cheating is likely to happen.

We might also not like to admit it, but our partner’s friends are actually in the unique position of being close and trusted enough to have this kind of access where confidences are shared and intimacies develop. I’m sure the cheating with a friend scenario is commoner than we would like to admit (while still inexcusable).

PrimroseYellow1 · 22/04/2024 13:46

Feel very sorry for you @Totalfuckingshitshow . Dumping the ‘friend’ is a no brainer. I would have nothing to do with her again, ever.

If you feel it was just this once, just this six minutes I would allow your husband to lead saving the relationship.

If you feel this has been an ongoing thing I would end the marriage.

Don’t let anyone rush your decision. Maybe some RL friend can help.

Notlikelysaidthedragontothefly · 22/04/2024 13:48

Sod moving on , ‘forgive and forget’, or getting over it.

This is about how the situation makes YOU feel. Someone else might think ‘meh’ no big deal, it was only once etc. But how does one know it wouldn’t have escalated into something else if you hadn’t confronted them?

I’ve always believed I’m in a happy marriage (it sounds like that’s how you felt about your own marriage) so I too would feel how you are feeling now about DH dancing, kissing and getting close with someone else.

Your thoughts and feelings are valid- as is your reaction.

Maray1967 · 22/04/2024 13:50

He needs to work very hard to rebuild your trust. It will be your decision as to whether he’s succeeded.

She clearly loved it - the happy attitude the next morning indicates that. I would find a way to make her pay- but I can be vindictive, and you probably don’t have the energy for that just now with a baby to care for.

If I was your other friend who’s currently supporting you, with your permission I’d do it for you.

pikkumyy77 · 22/04/2024 13:51

I think the reason you feel shame, and like you are “stupid” is that they have made you feel like a patsy. Its a horrible feeling to have foisted on you. But it comes naturally to us when we have trusted against our better instincts. You already forgave your dh the previous infidelity. You shared your best friend with him! And they both took advantage of your trust. That is such a toxic experience. The cure is to get mad and assert yourself and your needs. He should stop sniveling and work to repair the marriage—let slone you stopping the wife work he should do all the laundry, cooking, shit work for you and the children. She should drop off the face of the earth. You should take all the time and space you need.

MILTOBE · 22/04/2024 13:51

Shame on them for saying they were both crying about their dead mothers. That is such rubbish.