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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
BoobBounce · 22/04/2024 12:01

Very long term and he shows little to no interest in her. She sort of exists in the same place as him because that’s kind of all they’ve known.

Ahh, poor her. Her own DP is a dick, so she goes out to cop off with her mates DH’s to reassure herself that she’s still got it ;)

I’d tell her DP. She doesn’t deserve to get off Scot free.

Janetime · 22/04/2024 12:02

The lying I understand actually. Doesn’t mean it’s ok, just I think most folks would be tempted to lie in this situation.

however I couldn’t get past this. Not with a friend. My best friend. It’s a line that if you cross it you can’t back.

Janetime · 22/04/2024 12:03

BoobBounce · 22/04/2024 12:01

Very long term and he shows little to no interest in her. She sort of exists in the same place as him because that’s kind of all they’ve known.

Ahh, poor her. Her own DP is a dick, so she goes out to cop off with her mates DH’s to reassure herself that she’s still got it ;)

I’d tell her DP. She doesn’t deserve to get off Scot free.

She hasn’t got off Scot free. She’s lost her best friend and it will impact the others on the group too.

Growlybear83 · 22/04/2024 12:05

I don't think you're being over the top, OP. For me, it would be an issue of the breach of trust by both of them, and whilst it might have been just a kiss you saw on the CCTV, I wouldn't be able to trust my husband not to do more than that, either with the best friend or someone else, once the trust had gone.

SunflowerTed · 22/04/2024 12:14

I think I’d get rid of both of them. He’s shady and cheated before you met. You’ve needed couples counselling for years - start over is my advice

StarDolphins · 22/04/2024 12:17

I would also ditch the pair of them. They both had the opportunity to fess up the next day. You even asked him & he outright
lied. Then sorry & guilty when confronted.

They both should have loyalty to you. None have. I just couldn’t trust either of them again.

CheeryPye · 22/04/2024 12:19

It does seem odd that he is always twitchy about you going out with her alone. What is he afraid of? Could he be afraid she might get tipsy and blab to you that similar encounters have happened with him before?

CheeryPye · 22/04/2024 12:20

SunflowerTed · 22/04/2024 12:14

I think I’d get rid of both of them. He’s shady and cheated before you met. You’ve needed couples counselling for years - start over is my advice

How can you cheat before you met?

Opentooffers · 22/04/2024 12:22

I doubt it would be helpful to delve into the crying aspect. Unless you saw crying on the CCTV, that could just be a fabrication to make it seem more excusable.
How your friend was the next day is telling. Happier than usual, not guilty like your DH, shows her ego depends on the stroking of other men, whoever they might be. He massaged it for her.
It will be hard to trust your DH going forwards, as you know he's already got prior form for lies, that were hidden from you for years. Its not great to be unfaithful even early stages. You should be in the honeymoon phase, that is bigger incentive than years down the line when monotony of life takes hold. If there isn't willpower then, there's likely less down the line.
But, you know they went to bed separatley, and you've already forgiven past worse behaviour. Make sure all the steps he needs to take are on the understanding that, on completion, you will consider resuming the relationship. Best to avoid promises, you dont know yourself how you will feel, but its his best shot and its up to him to take it. This includes him arranging coucelling, not you and him just agreeing to turn up. Put the ball firmly in his court for doing the work. Meanwhile, stay separate but living together if moving out is tricky. It sounds like you have a large home so can maybe keep out of each others way. Be more co-parent ish if you can. Certainly dont do any cooking or washing on his behalf anymore. He needs to feel the seperatness as much as possible.

britneyisfree · 22/04/2024 12:31

Sounds like something might have happened between them in the past tbh.

Either way, whatever you decide about your marriage, your friendship is over. You'll never be able to trust her again, now that she's shown you who she is. I don't know why I feel as though her betrayal is worse because she's basically told you to get over it. You can cut her out completely whereas you have small children with your husband.
Good luck!

Funkadoodledoo · 22/04/2024 12:39

Ohhhhh this is so hard. Previous poster right, much easier to leave if a clear case of infidelity.

I had an ex who crossed a few emotional intimacy lines with female friend of his early in our relationship. I forgave, and thought clear boundaries had been drawn. A few years later he had a full blown emotional affair with a female colleague that led to physical interaction although they didn’t sleep together. I foolishly forgave that, and then he just started a full blown relationship with someone that, when it came to light, made me leave him.

My conclusion was that once I’d shown him I would forgive my boundaries being trampled on with a few days of crying or a period of cold shoulder time, he didn’t really worry about doing it again or doing worse. He thought he could get away with it, essentially. I think in your circumstances I’d think long and hard about the previous infidelity early on, the guilt text that shows he knew immediately he was in the wrong, and the several minutes this played out over along with denials until you showed hard evidence.

It would have to come down to trust for me. If you can’t hand on heart say you’d trust him alone with a flirty single female friend in the future, you are flogging a dead pony.

ridingfreely · 22/04/2024 12:41

What the heck is DARVO
I have the abbreviations when I can't guess them

Bumblebeeinatree · 22/04/2024 12:42

Sounds like he was embarrassed by what had happened the night before. If he had no intention of letting it go further, I can understand him not wanting you to know. He was trying to avoid what has happened happening, would you have been forgiving if he had told you the truth? Or would you have reacted just the same way?

The 'best friend' is anything but a best friend and is gone forever. Husband led a bit astray by an apparently very attractive, available and overly friendly woman (after having too much to drink) gets a second chance. It sounds like if he had wanted he could have had sex with her that night, he didn't.

PointyMcguire · 22/04/2024 12:45

This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

So have there been other times when they’ve stayed up drinking without you?

Londonismyjam · 22/04/2024 12:46

DARVO = Deny and Reverse Victim and Offender

ChampagneGold · 22/04/2024 12:46

I really don't think I could get over this. What a betrayal.

Plus his bullshit about crying and being comforted, give me a break!

I'm not saying you should leave him OP especially as you have young kids, but I'd want an HONEST account of what happened. Not all this crying bollcoks.

Disturbia81 · 22/04/2024 12:49

SheSellsSea · 22/04/2024 11:40

I’m going to be very honest here in case it helps. Is your friend single?

I am single (divorced) and quite a few of my friends’ husband sometimes suggest a kind of accelerated emotional intimacy with me. I don’t take them up on it, but for instance one of my closest mum friend’s husbands suddenly leant in and kissed me after we’d all been walking back from something with our kids. Kind of like a cheek kiss but more. He’s not a cheater, but there’s something about being single, men are just interested. I can feel it available there but I don’t do it. But I can sense the power I have.

I think you need to ditch your friend and keep your H. Yes, it’s cheating, but it’s easy to do if a woman is inclined to offer and tap in to the vulnerability of the men around. Your H sounds like he needs to talk to you a lot more.

This. Everytime I'm single. And it's ALWAYS the married/taken ones never the singles ones you hope for.
They are so risky too, they are literally doing it to their wives friends who could easily say something.
It's like they are desperate and love the forbidden fruit or something. And know nothing will happen but want to acknowledge the singleness or something.
Very weird and not nice to experience and see. Men!

WhichEllie · 22/04/2024 12:53

ridingfreely · 22/04/2024 12:41

What the heck is DARVO
I have the abbreviations when I can't guess them

It stands for Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.

EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 22/04/2024 12:53

You don't have to make a decision right now. You can, but you don't have to. You can take your time and think about this, see how you feel. If you decide you want to wait and see or try marriage counselling first you can still end it later over this if that's what you need. This is about what's right for you, that might be seperating or it might be staying and seeing if he can fix things. If he sorts marriage counselling and engages, communicates more and accepts responsibility, doesn't gaslight you about it being your fault, maybe this is something you can come back from. Maybe it's not. Work out what you need out of this and go for that.

Farahfawsett · 22/04/2024 12:56

I think the fact that he's cheated before and that you were at such a bad place in your marriage that you wanted to go to marriage counselling (& he refused) indicates that this is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Had this been a one-off drunken blip, there would potentially be consideration for working through it, but given all the background, I think not.

The thing that stood out most for me was that the situation in which this intimacy could happen seemed almost engineered.

If my best friend was visiting (who I rarely got to see), then my H would be the one going to bed early and leaving us to chat AND getting up with the baby in the morning, regardless of whose turn it was (& I would do the same for him if his mate was staying).

When you went to bed, why didn't your friend leave? Or why didn't your H say "don't be daft, you stay with BF and I'll do the baby shift"?

That's what happens in good marriages.

pikkumyy77 · 22/04/2024 13:00

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:57

Whatever I want. Therapy, stopping drinking, total honesty, starting over…

I don’t want to put limitations on someone’s life though. That feels wrong. I want the two closest people to me to have controlled themselves.

In our early days there was some cheating on his part, when we were very young and hadn’t been together very long, but I never thought it would happen again after marriage and babies and not with my friend. I only found out about the early stuff years later.

Is it cheating? Do you guys see it as cheating? It feels like cheating.

If he already cheated early in the marriage that is who he is. The time when he didn’t cheat (if there was any such time) is the outlier. Don’t rush things but get into therapy with the goal of accepting this and moving on. Don’t do couples therapy unless he makes alllllll the arrangements and is absolutely up front about doing all the work. I don’t think he is capable of it, though.

rickandmorts · 22/04/2024 13:04

I've scanned the replies and haven't seen it mentioned but the way you describe their encounter makes them seem familiar and at ease with each other (in an intimate way). Is there a possibility they could have been having an affair before this? I'm really sorry you're going through this ☹️

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 13:07

Opentooffers · 22/04/2024 12:22

I doubt it would be helpful to delve into the crying aspect. Unless you saw crying on the CCTV, that could just be a fabrication to make it seem more excusable.
How your friend was the next day is telling. Happier than usual, not guilty like your DH, shows her ego depends on the stroking of other men, whoever they might be. He massaged it for her.
It will be hard to trust your DH going forwards, as you know he's already got prior form for lies, that were hidden from you for years. Its not great to be unfaithful even early stages. You should be in the honeymoon phase, that is bigger incentive than years down the line when monotony of life takes hold. If there isn't willpower then, there's likely less down the line.
But, you know they went to bed separatley, and you've already forgiven past worse behaviour. Make sure all the steps he needs to take are on the understanding that, on completion, you will consider resuming the relationship. Best to avoid promises, you dont know yourself how you will feel, but its his best shot and its up to him to take it. This includes him arranging coucelling, not you and him just agreeing to turn up. Put the ball firmly in his court for doing the work. Meanwhile, stay separate but living together if moving out is tricky. It sounds like you have a large home so can maybe keep out of each others way. Be more co-parent ish if you can. Certainly dont do any cooking or washing on his behalf anymore. He needs to feel the seperatness as much as possible.

Thank you. We have space to live separately. I’ve stopped doing anything for him. I’m on mat leave so I’d been carrying the majority, and though he was fairly contributory.

I think you (and another couple of posters) are right that he needs to sort any counselling and be the driving force for change. I’d tried to do it for years and it didn’t work. He wants to do it, he has to do it and sort it out. That will be interesting to see if he does.

I can’t get past that if there had been this profoundly emotional moment, whereby my husband was crying, why the fuck did neither of them mention it? Why keep it as their little secret?

OP posts:
Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 13:09

PointyMcguire · 22/04/2024 12:45

This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

So have there been other times when they’ve stayed up drinking without you?

Yes.

OP posts:
Todaywasbetter · 22/04/2024 13:09

Keep the husband ditch the friend.

If it was me

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