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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
Lavengro · 05/06/2024 21:54

Perhaps your PMDD is improving because you're addressing emotional things that you've been holding on to for a long time @Totalfuckingshitshow? I'm a big believer in The Body Keeps The Score. You sound like you're doing pretty well, but I'm sorry for how sad you must feel. Keep your chin up. Flowers

Delphinium20 · 05/06/2024 21:58

Good to hear from you and very glad the therapy is helping, if anything to clarify what is really going on in your marriage. I'm glad you and husband will be able to co-parent regardless the outcome. Hang in there, if you do divorce, your life will not be over and eventually you'll get a man who actually deserves you.

As to former friend, talk about one massive manipulative narcissist. If she had any non-selfish feelings at all, she'd have slunk away in shame but nope, she's using dead people to guilt trip you. Unconscionable.

UPALLNIGHTMNETTING · 05/06/2024 22:25

It's bonkers that ex friend thinks that there's any chance you would want to get back in touch - she must have a very high and misguided opinion of herself to think it's tempting!!

I imagine some of the symptoms of PMDD are improved by taking care of your body (such as being able to sleep better, for example), so could partly be down to all your running. Good on you and keep it up!!

Silvers11 · 05/06/2024 22:39

Good to have an update @Totalfuckingshitshow Sounds like the therapy is helping - even if it's becoming clear that separating is probably the best way to go. It will be hard, but you will be better off in yourself in so many ways once the dust settles. Your ex friend sounds unbelievably selfish

Quitelikeit · 05/06/2024 22:47

Exercise and low sugar is amazing for pmdd. It’s hard to convince people but after twenty years of suffering I had no other options so had to try that road and voila it helped enormously!

Infact exercise and a good diet really do help with a range of things but I was far too ignorant to appreciate it before

Nicole1111 · 05/06/2024 23:09

It sounds like you’re handling this so well. I know it’s tough but give yourself time and be gentle with yourself. One day before long hopefully you’ll look back on this experience as a blessing in terms of the outcomes you get from it.

beanii · 06/06/2024 10:11

@Totalfuckingshitshow thank you for the update.

You mentioned trauma bonded to him, that's exactly what happened to me with my covert narcissist ex - took me 22 years to finally build up the strength to leave but I'm now genuinely the happiest I've ever been - it was extremely hard to build up the courage initially but surprisingly easy once I physically left.

I had a lot of trauma before meeting him so looking back I just clung onto him and then it just carried on - engaged, married, kids etc.

Good luck and thank you again for the update.

AnnieSF · 06/06/2024 10:38

You have CCTV which shows inside your house?

Whatifthehokeycokey · 06/06/2024 10:44

You are doing so well OP. Keep going.

Rania78 · 06/06/2024 11:25

OP, nice to hear from you. You seem such a strong levelled woman.
I have a feeling that deep inside you knew that you have nothing more to give each other and it was time to part. I think that this incident might have subconsciously worked as the excuse/final nail in the coffin.
There is a chance he felt the same but didn’t have the courage to do it. Men never do. And maybe this is the conversation he had with the bimbo and the reason he wept. It looks to me like he was in pain.
Sometimes people come together to heal each other and need to part ways when they are done. Time to uncouple and find another partner to grow with.

Jewel52 · 06/06/2024 13:48

beanii · 06/06/2024 10:11

@Totalfuckingshitshow thank you for the update.

You mentioned trauma bonded to him, that's exactly what happened to me with my covert narcissist ex - took me 22 years to finally build up the strength to leave but I'm now genuinely the happiest I've ever been - it was extremely hard to build up the courage initially but surprisingly easy once I physically left.

I had a lot of trauma before meeting him so looking back I just clung onto him and then it just carried on - engaged, married, kids etc.

Good luck and thank you again for the update.

I could’ve written this and I’m so pleased you got out and found your own happy 😊

Kudos to the op for entering therapy so she understands the dynamics that’s brought her relationship to this.

So many of us just keep repeating the same pattern. I’m determined to steer clear of men until I’ve stopped people pleasing and ditched my martyr complex 🤷‍♀️!

Snappers3 · 06/06/2024 14:14

OP, you sound amazing considering what you have endured post partum.
There is something so pathetic, entitled and nauseating about someone who deeply wrongs another, but simply refuses to accept that that person has agency to never engage with them again.
The height of presumptuousness and vanity that consequences don't apply to them.

When your decision is made, I wouldn't spare her reputation....or his.

anonqrtb · 06/06/2024 14:31

@Totalfuckingshitshow I'm glad to hear you are doing better.

You talk alot about how things are unfolding, but i don't hear much of what you want?

Do you want to stay together? Do you want to break up?

In and ideal world, (not possible i know but humour me) what would you say your future looks like?

AcrossthePond55 · 06/06/2024 18:18

@Totalfuckingshitshow

Those therapy sessions are bringing the truth to light. Despite the two of you being able to handle the day to day practicalities well (parties, etc) you simply aren't pulling in tandem when it comes to philosophy, emotions, and the more 'intangible' but no less important parts of marriage. You aren't really connected the way a married couple needs to be connected. And given his anger and refusal to engage, he doesn't want that connection. He wants you to shut up, leave him alone, and deal with it (whatever 'it' may be at the time) by yourself.

Listen, it's not 'pathetic and childish' to want to believe in the person who is supposed to be our biggest fan, our rock in a storm. We all start out believing. It's just that some of us have to come to the realization that it's no longer true (if it ever was to begin with). But you are stronger than you know and you will be able to 'disentangle' when the time is right.

As far as former friend, if you don't want to block her that's your decision. Just keep an eye not only on what she's saying, but your own reactions to it. You don't need any more negativity to enter your head just now.

I think that no matter what you may want right now, now is the time to see a solicitor. It doesn't mean you're going to 'do anything', it's just getting yourself educated as to what divorce might mean to you so you can make informed decisions for your future.

Trictactosa · 06/06/2024 19:42

I enjoy reading your words, as well as rooting for you to be well.

That running may be keeping the pmdd in check. Nice trick with the squash - might nick that.

Thanks for the update - I do look out for them 🙂.

BirthdayRainbow · 06/06/2024 20:14

Now I realise how pathetic and childish that was and I wondered if (due to what had happened to me just before I met him) if I wasn’t in fact just trauma bonded. I’m exploring this.

This resonated. If I hadn't had the childhood I had I'm not sure I'd have stayed with my STBEH never mind married him.

It's not pathetic or childish and neither are you.

Secondstart1001 · 06/06/2024 20:57

@Totalfuckingshitshow its good to hear your voice through your words.

It sounds like therapy is giving you clarity and it’s ok to mourn what seems like a door closing on your marriage. I think what will help is to keep the good bits close to your heart and mentally sort through the rest and slowly let go. What might have felt or been right then doesn’t seem to work anymore.

I do think what will give you a great sense of relief is when you stop living together .. might take months or a year but not seeing his face every day with let you relax and put your guard down at home.

I lived with ex for 4 years when separated and it made me tense. Like you, my kids were young and finances ect were very tangled. But I got through it and now I’m happy in my own home and have a partner ( 4 years now). I was adamant I would never settle down again but started new life in my 40’s.

changeme4this · 06/06/2024 22:30

I hope the following isn’t a trigger, and its not intending to be, but have you considered the x friend might also be reaching out to your DH for ‘answers’….?

I really wouldn’t put it past her…

SleepPrettyDarling · 06/06/2024 23:28

Ex friend is seeking absolution. Don’t give her any oxygen.

Dont be afraid to pause joint counselling and persisting with solo if you are finding the joint sessions are getting heated.

I found counselling (I’m not sure I’d call it therapy as that to me implies some sort of joint healing) a great way to articulate in a neutral space, and I found in it the opportunity to talk about particular instances which had never been discussed, which I’d never felt allowed to bring up. I also found, eventually, a stream of consciousness that had never been organised in my kind, but just … came out.

It’s exhausting, and with a newborn it’s really hard to totally be in the moment when the baby is always on your mind. More power to you 💪🏼for the running; that shows real steel. You’ve got this!

Totalfuckingshitshow · 07/06/2024 19:54

SleepPrettyDarling · 06/06/2024 23:28

Ex friend is seeking absolution. Don’t give her any oxygen.

Dont be afraid to pause joint counselling and persisting with solo if you are finding the joint sessions are getting heated.

I found counselling (I’m not sure I’d call it therapy as that to me implies some sort of joint healing) a great way to articulate in a neutral space, and I found in it the opportunity to talk about particular instances which had never been discussed, which I’d never felt allowed to bring up. I also found, eventually, a stream of consciousness that had never been organised in my kind, but just … came out.

It’s exhausting, and with a newborn it’s really hard to totally be in the moment when the baby is always on your mind. More power to you 💪🏼for the running; that shows real steel. You’ve got this!

🙌🏻 this is landing with me.

My H and I seem to be struggling more and more with communication. I think at first we were politely scratching the surface in therapy, and were emotional and sad, and it was almost a strange bonding experience, in spite of what happened.

But we’re now getting down to the real issues. And he’s feeling a loss of control over his own life as I am no longer a-given as a life partner, and that seems to make him so upset he masks it with outward anger (not violence, just the actions of a man raised neck deep in toxic masculinity from his arse of a father, and who now rejects difficult emotions and shuts them down with anger and storming off. Meaning, incidentally, I never ever felt heard when I wanted to talk about feelings). And as a result, nearly all attempts at communicating anything now result in miscommunication, anger and upset on my part. He can feel me separating and withdrawing from him.

(I’ve also got badass new abs which may also be sending him wild. I’m jesting of course, though they are badass. I do only seem to have four however, which is annoying, though as I’ve never successfully acquired abs before, I’m still pleased. Who knew running was the trick?)

It’s such a weird time. We’re coexisting and coparenting in a space filled with hurt, shame, confusion, tiredness, distance, sadness and it’s peppered with him initiating affection. Not in a manipulative way. I feel like I don’t know whether I’m coming or going, which made me feel that I really need to make a decision and take action. I have the sense of an urgency and looming deadline.

I’m also mindful of modelling a healthy relationship (mental I know under the circumstances) to my children, who are watchful little sponges. My son (just 4) asks deeply pertinent questions and I don’t want him to absorb anything negative while he doesn’t know what’s going on. To him we’re still Mama and Dada. My daughter is a baby and really just smiles at anything or anyone, but I feel a fierce need to show them either a healthy, respectful relationship of coparenting or a healthy, respectful and loving parental relationship. Currently I’m not achieving either.

Sorry for my epic updates which say next to fuck all. I find this a bally useful place to align the tangled spaghetti in my head.

Wine/whine anyone?

OP posts:
Chatonette · 07/06/2024 20:00

Don’t feel rushed, OP. Take all the time you need.

Trictactosa · 07/06/2024 20:02

Wine 🍷

Snappers3 · 07/06/2024 20:15

Chatonette · 07/06/2024 20:00

Don’t feel rushed, OP. Take all the time you need.

Agree.

He's majorly fxxked up and is confused, sad and angry with the consequences.
Not unlike a child.
He thought of you like a parent whose love would be a constant in his life.
He completely overestimated your love of him, to be unending no matter how poorly behaved he might be.
He's not the first man to be shaken to his core to find a women very suddenly, very shockingly, upping the drawbridge to their heart.
His anger is pure confusion.
He took you, your love, the family you had built for granted.
You are realising that actually you have accepted far too much guff from him, and No, he isn't worth it.
Do not be rushed into any decision.
You are worth ten of him.
Let him wait.

keffie12 · 07/06/2024 21:10

@Totalfuckingshitshow Have you anywhere you can go with the children for a few days so you can have some space?

I think it would be helpful to have some temporary time apart. Has he got somewhere to go if it isn't viable for you?

Totalfuckingshitshow · 07/06/2024 22:16

keffie12 · 07/06/2024 21:10

@Totalfuckingshitshow Have you anywhere you can go with the children for a few days so you can have some space?

I think it would be helpful to have some temporary time apart. Has he got somewhere to go if it isn't viable for you?

Funnily enough, our therapist suggested this at the end of the last intense session. I might look into it. It doesn’t sound particularly relaxing being outnumbered by small people in a space with no convenience of home, but I think it would be beneficial. Space to think. And also to adjust the idea of being separate.

He’d miss us. A lot. He adores the children and I think that’s a big part of his upset. Not seeing them all the time.

I’m going to pour a drink and look into it. 👀

I feel so weary. The low mood and overwhelm is real. (Promise I’m not medicating with booze. Mainly with peanut butter M&Ms)

OP posts:
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