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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being OTT? Husband and my best friend…

867 replies

Totalfuckingshitshow · 22/04/2024 10:35

I don’t know why I’m doing this thread. Probably because I can’t stomach telling real life people yet. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or underreacting or what. Please can you help me see through it?

A couple of weeks ago, my closest friend came to stay with us. She’s a long-term friend, very close, visits frequently and was my bridesmaid etc.

I got a babysitter and my friend, me and my H went out for a couple of drinks and to meet some other friends in the pub.

After coming home, I went to bed as it was late and my turn to get up with the baby in the morning. My H and friend stayed up listening to music and drinking some more. They went into another separate part of the house so the music didn’t disturb me or the baby. This isn’t unusual and more often than not, I’d be there too or my H wouldn’t.

In the morning, I picked up on a vibe. I just had a feeling. Never had it before. My friend was overly bright. She came back over very early. My husband very quiet. After my friend went home, I asked him outright if something had happened and he said no.

It niggled me for a couple of days and I suddenly recalled there’s external CCTV that covers that portion of the house, after we were burgled. So I viewed it. And I saw, clearly, that my friend approached my husband and put her arms around his neck and he wrapped his arms around her. They stayed like this, then it became dancing, then it became standing with their faces very close together talking, then they kissed albeit relatively brief and not a passionate one, and then they danced some more and then they separated. My H then immediately text me something inane, and probably guilty in hindsight.

The whole thing lasted around six minutes. It looked very intimate and intense. It makes me throw up viewing it.

Afterwards, they both went to bed separately. I’m fairly certain nothing else happened between them.

I have confronted the pair of them. My H claims he was crying about something and she comforted him, and he enjoyed the comfort. He’s very, very shame faced, upset and apologetic. My friend is trying to emotionally manipulate me into getting over it. Both attempted to rewrite it and minimise it until I informed them I’d seen it on CCTV.

I had expected DARVO from the pair of them due to the creepy surveillance aspect, but neither did. I find that telling.

My H is living in a separate part of the house. Complicated lives mean he cannot leave fully currently. I have ended my friendship. I have asked my H for a separation.

The real kicker here is my H, while very fond of my friend, is twitchy when I go out with her alone because she habitually seeks male attention and he feared I might do similar. She’s very beautiful and very clever and men fall at her feet. The hypocrisy of him lapping it up when she sought his attention is keeping me up at night.

I feel utterly sick and so betrayed. I have lost so much weight, I cannot eat and I cannot sleep. I feel I have lost two of the most important people to me.

But am I overreacting to end my marriage over this? They didn’t sleep together, the kiss was relatively brief, we have very small children, very entwined lives and a very long history.

And before anyone comes at me, I’m not holding her more responsible than him. She initiated the initial contact but he went with it. They both kissed each other. He’s married to me. Not her. Nor am I routinely into surveillance. It just suddenly occurred to me we had a camera and it was sheer dumb luck, or misfortune in their case, that they were visible.

Sorry this is long. I’ve not spoken to anyone about it.

OP posts:
CinnamonJellyBeans · 12/05/2024 10:34

Your FF is currently providing more reasons for you to use her as the vessel for your anger and betrayal. This is very handy for your husband.

Your husband: Yes, maybe a few hours of therapy will make him do what he didn't do for all of those years and cherish you above all others. She was number one in his head and he put up zero resistance to make her number one in his arms.

I don't think he loves you enough to be your life-time partner. I wouldn't have him back.

Calliopespa · 12/05/2024 11:09

Great update OP.

Third friend sounds incredible and would be getting a bunch of flowers from me! She’s been a real crutch for you through this and that kind of loyalty isn’t easy to come by.

HesterPrincess · 12/05/2024 11:13

I'm glad there are more positives now for you, OP. You have an astouding amount of grace and dignity; your children are very lucky to have an awesome Mum. He is a fool if he lets you go.

BirthdayRainbow · 12/05/2024 13:06

Your updates really make me feel that you are strong, you will make the right decision for YOU which means it is the right decision for your small children. There is still an element of you trying to tell your husband what needs to do to make this right and then potentially rebuild your marriage and I think you need to step back from that.

Then your 8.38 post makes me think that there might be a chance. My STBEH did two things that blue up our marriage then actually broke it and I don't feel he did very much to fix things. I did more than he did and what little he did do was easy and just wasn't good enough.

Friend 3 is priceless.

Tamigotxh · 12/05/2024 13:38

Third friend is brilliant. It’s great to have principled friends who don’t do the “neutral” and “ not taking sides” stance, in these type of very clear cut situations.

I’ve just stumbled upon this thread today and nothing to add in the way of the great advice you’ve already had and it looks like things are going in a good direction for you, but just want to say, I personally struggle to believe that show of intimacy caught on CCTV was a first.

I believe there was many moments building up to it. I also believe it would’ve went way. further had you not found them out.

Any man that is willing to cheat so close to home is very dangerous and not trustworthy at all. The fact they tried to deny it initially is also very telling. Neither have any respect for you and their word isn’t to be trusted.

Cheating with an “outsider” is also bad of course but to do it with a friend of yours show a very special type of recklessness and lack of self control.

You obviously have many years ahead of co-parenting so hope you can find some kind of peace with each other, but at least you don’t have to deal with this “friend” again.

beanii · 12/05/2024 18:19

Nice update.

Be careful not to just drift along over the years though.

It's not as scary as you think starting again, in fact it's great.

I think your husband might be like my ex and just always thinks you'll be there. I told him I was leaving and he asked if we could live as 'friends' for 5 years for the children, I stupidly agreed 2 (he's a covert narcissist) providing I could live my own life, he agreed until I did just that - it lasted 9 months and then I moved out.

I'm 3 years physically away from him, 8 years mentally (it took me 5 years to build the courage to tell him after being married for 20+ years) - I'm the happiest I've ever been.

Didimum · 12/05/2024 18:58

I just don’t think you can trust your H hasn’t done anything like this before, OP. With many cheating posts, someone always brings up the unlikelihood of the first time it happens being the time you happen to discover it by accident. I think that certainly rings true here. It is, however, your marriage, and I can’t imagine how difficult this must be for you. I’m glad you have the third friend.

JenniferBooth · 12/05/2024 19:36

@Totalfuckingshitshow Thanks for taking time to come back and update Flowers Sounds like your former friend has "main character syndrome"

Your H needs to take accountability for what he did. You come across as intelligent and articulate. Far too good for him. You know your worth and if you stay with him HE needs to realise your worth too.

changeme4this · 12/05/2024 21:33

Fantastic update.!

personally I don’t agree with sending a letter to former friend. That’s inviting communication as she will want to respond. You have started on your journey to move away from the incident and it doesn’t need any further input from her. Ultimately what else can it add ? I don’t think anything positive but spin you backward.

Calliopespa · 12/05/2024 21:51

changeme4this · 12/05/2024 21:33

Fantastic update.!

personally I don’t agree with sending a letter to former friend. That’s inviting communication as she will want to respond. You have started on your journey to move away from the incident and it doesn’t need any further input from her. Ultimately what else can it add ? I don’t think anything positive but spin you backward.

I agree. Just ask your other friend to communicate that you don’t want her to contact you again - or for that matter your DH. He is still your DH and it’s about time she had some boundaries spelled out to her. What happens between you and him hereafter isn’t her business; but for now I’d expressly request she ceases all contact as I suspect it would be just like her to have a emotional reach-out.

scoobysnaxx · 13/05/2024 01:11

Still thinking of you OP.
Your friend sounds brilliant, my kind of ride or die gal.
The ex friend is now a friendless loser. Her loss. Big time.

MsDogLady · 13/05/2024 06:54

@Totalfuckingshitshow, thanks so much for updating. I see that a lot has been happening as you move forward. Knowledge is strength, and you are marshaling all the pertinent information you can in order to make your decisions.

My H is quite defensive in the sessions.
Being defensive during the sessions and elsewhere is not a good look for a man who is supposed to be on a mission to examine his weaknesses and restore your trust. He has a history of maladaptive behavior that harmed you — infidelity,
self-destruction, being difficult to live with. He would have agreed to your recovery requirements, so by once again cheating and then lying and gaslighting you, he essentially threw your forgiveness back in your face. Taking a defensive stance in therapy is a way to control the sessions and sabotage self-growth and progress.

Repeating what I and others have surmised, his and OW’s loaded body language suggested previous moments of frisson and emotional intimacy. Once alone, they didn’t miss a beat before embracing and kissing. He did it because he wanted to, joining the ranks of the other captivated guys who ‘fall at her feet.’ He is going to have to face the music and figure out why/how he gave himself permission to betray you so horribly. Why were her touch and illicit validation so important to him that he was willing to collude with her to humiliate you? Saying ‘I don’t know’ doesn’t cut it.

As for Ace Friend 3, she is an absolute treasure and you are a blessing to each other. @Totalfuckingshitshow, I hope your IC goes well and you are able to process your thoughts and gain clarity.

Whatifthehokeycokey · 13/05/2024 10:40

Totalfuckingshitshow · 12/05/2024 08:31

Just to add, I think one major motivating factor in former friend getting in touch was because she likes a drink, especially a bottomless brunch type affair, and she doesn’t really have anyone to go out day drinking with anymore. Especially anyone who knows what she’s like and just let her get on with it.

I’m sure she feels more for us than just as drinking buddies (though she puts her need for an ego boost above any loyalty to us as friends as it turns out) but that’s an immediate loss to her that she’s trying to amend.

She’s also not made any attempt to contact me so it feels like she’s trying to salvage what she can with third friend. Third friend said ‘if you were as innocent as you’re now trying to suggest, why on earth haven’t you been fighting to prove that to Shitshow? Because you know you’re not innocent.’

I love third friend.

NB: I did think about doing the nifty Mumsnet-style shorthand of 3F and FF, but the wine head made it all confusing, so I’ve written it out in full. Apologies.

Sounds like you have some lovely, loyal friends. Really nice to know after being so horribly betrayed by one.

Rania78 · 13/05/2024 11:58

changeme4this · 12/05/2024 21:33

Fantastic update.!

personally I don’t agree with sending a letter to former friend. That’s inviting communication as she will want to respond. You have started on your journey to move away from the incident and it doesn’t need any further input from her. Ultimately what else can it add ? I don’t think anything positive but spin you backward.

Completely agree with that. I think OP would better invest her energy in herself rather than writing a letter and waste a time in a loser.

Justnavigating · 13/05/2024 18:29

Secondstart1001 · 28/04/2024 16:59

@Totalfuckingshitshow I don’t think people ever get over betrayal like this. There is a lot of mentions of therapy however this only helps how you deal with the cheating - we can’t go back to the past and stop it from happening.
Your DP trying to act familiar with you I’d how attempt to minimise but I can see you are an intelligent woman and don’t buy into the bs and nor should you. He needs to be grovelling hard and then some more! and he needs to take ownership of his actions! You sound too bloody good for him tbh! Take care x

I agree , you don’t really. You can be fine , then you’ll just think of it and it can be years later and it hurts still . You feel anger at them , it takes you back . So , no I don’t think you can ever get over that betrayal .

Thats not to say though, that you can’t repair your relationship and move on . It takes a lot of work - from him to repair what he’s broken and from you to live with the new you . Because you won’t be the same again .

My marriage counsellor likened it to a broken leg. Eventually , although you remember the pain , it won’t hurt as much. You won’t remember it exactly as painful as it was - you know it hurt and you remember how hurt you were and you wince when you think of it , but it’s less . However , the leg might not fully be the same again - you’ll always be scared of it getting hurt again and you’ll always be a bit wary . If you broke it by falling off a ladder , you’ll be a bit wary of ladders , a bit more guarded and careful when you go on them because you’ll remember how falling off that ladder hurt so you will be worried about doing it again . You will go on a ladder again and you might not think of what happened every single time you go on that ladder …. But you won’t ever fully trust a ladder again .

Totalfuckingshitshow · 13/05/2024 22:35

Thanks again for all the replies. I’ve taken real comfort from popping back to see what people have said.

Also it’s been useful seeing where I was at and where I am now, and remembering how awful I felt. That’s particularly useful as I have a mortal fear of sliding back into the unsatisfactory marriage we had, and remembering how hurt I was/am helps keep that at bay. Back up plan is making the sign of the cross in my H’s face if he gets overfamiliar and running away screaming.

I also have another update. Former Friend has been in touch via text. I obviously spoke too soon. I got a very lengthy, very self indulgent message about how devastated she is and how totally platonic it all was. I mean…….. what?

I think she genuinely believes that as a month has passed, she can now manipulate me with emotional language and rewrite what happened just enough for it to be totally fine (and recast me as ‘hysterical’ and over the top, no doubt…) and we can just carry on as we were. She even, selflessly, offered to meet me at a bar so we can discuss it.

I’m going to do what other posters also advised, and that’s nothing. I don’t want to get into a dialogue with her at all. I don’t want her to have a platform to unleash her impressive manipulation skills. I’ve seen her wangle her way into the most exclusive parts of events, this girl is good. I don’t want any of it. She’s not a good friend.

I’m taking the baby and we’re off to visit Third Friend tomorrow, which will be lovely. She lives very close to Former Friend, so I feel stupidly nervous about being in her neck of the woods.

I think, as time goes on, Former Friend is feeling the loss of us on a social level, and is trying to get back what she can. I’m sure she cared about us in a way, though I can’t say I believe that much anymore, but I think it’s mainly the loss of social life she’s mourning.

In other news, I ran ten miles with the baby in a pram. Yes, my body hurts from head to toe, but I’m so chuffed with myself.

P.S. totally relating to the ladder analogy. I can feel the wounds this has caused in my emotional wellbeing. Those scars will always be there.

OP posts:
UPALLNIGHTMNETTING · 13/05/2024 22:57

Glad to hear how well everything is going OP, compared to how it was only a little while ago! Go you for your running too!!

Wow, what a CF Ex Friend is 😱Try not to feel nervous about seeing her (although I can totally relate to feeling similar in other scenarios). If you do see her, it will be a bit awkward, but ultimately it's her who will quite rightly be ashamed - just hold your head up. I think you're right to stay away from her.

VJBR · 13/05/2024 23:04

Sometimes silence speaks louder than words. Definitely good call not to engage with her in any way.

Iaskedyouthrice · 13/05/2024 23:23

To me it looks like he has put you through some shit over the years. Well, you say he has and that you've rolled with all of the punches. I mean, I think your done here. I think you were done as soon as you saw that recording. I think the individual and couple counselling is a great idea, as you say, you may end up coparenting anyway.
Sometimes, when you've been with someone for a long time and they have thrown so much shite your way, when they betray you like this it's like, fucking really?? After the shit I've taken off you??
Stay strong whatever you decide, things obviously need to change in your house. He doesn't get to fuck up frequently and just expect you to lock it away and carry on. I'm glad you are holding him accountable and not comforting him. That will be taking the wind out of his sails.
Good luck and remember how strong you are!

Secondstart1001 · 13/05/2024 23:47

Justnavigating · 13/05/2024 18:29

I agree , you don’t really. You can be fine , then you’ll just think of it and it can be years later and it hurts still . You feel anger at them , it takes you back . So , no I don’t think you can ever get over that betrayal .

Thats not to say though, that you can’t repair your relationship and move on . It takes a lot of work - from him to repair what he’s broken and from you to live with the new you . Because you won’t be the same again .

My marriage counsellor likened it to a broken leg. Eventually , although you remember the pain , it won’t hurt as much. You won’t remember it exactly as painful as it was - you know it hurt and you remember how hurt you were and you wince when you think of it , but it’s less . However , the leg might not fully be the same again - you’ll always be scared of it getting hurt again and you’ll always be a bit wary . If you broke it by falling off a ladder , you’ll be a bit wary of ladders , a bit more guarded and careful when you go on them because you’ll remember how falling off that ladder hurt so you will be worried about doing it again . You will go on a ladder again and you might not think of what happened every single time you go on that ladder …. But you won’t ever fully trust a ladder again .

You will go on a ladder again and you might not think of what happened every single time you go on that ladder …. But you won’t ever fully trust a ladder again .

@Iaskedyouthrice this is such a useful and helpful analogy and puts feelings into works quite frankly so thank you! Resonates very close with me.

@Totalfuckingshitshow you have come so far and tbh even though you came on here with such an awful situation, it was never going to destroy you as things weren’t hunky dory and the fact you suspected your H and your friend said a lot about your expectation or lack of, regarding your H and his boundaries. You have a strong core and you are doing so well! Xx

Secondstart1001 · 13/05/2024 23:48
  • feelings into words 😅
Rania78 · 14/05/2024 07:19

Totalfuckingshitshow · 13/05/2024 22:35

Thanks again for all the replies. I’ve taken real comfort from popping back to see what people have said.

Also it’s been useful seeing where I was at and where I am now, and remembering how awful I felt. That’s particularly useful as I have a mortal fear of sliding back into the unsatisfactory marriage we had, and remembering how hurt I was/am helps keep that at bay. Back up plan is making the sign of the cross in my H’s face if he gets overfamiliar and running away screaming.

I also have another update. Former Friend has been in touch via text. I obviously spoke too soon. I got a very lengthy, very self indulgent message about how devastated she is and how totally platonic it all was. I mean…….. what?

I think she genuinely believes that as a month has passed, she can now manipulate me with emotional language and rewrite what happened just enough for it to be totally fine (and recast me as ‘hysterical’ and over the top, no doubt…) and we can just carry on as we were. She even, selflessly, offered to meet me at a bar so we can discuss it.

I’m going to do what other posters also advised, and that’s nothing. I don’t want to get into a dialogue with her at all. I don’t want her to have a platform to unleash her impressive manipulation skills. I’ve seen her wangle her way into the most exclusive parts of events, this girl is good. I don’t want any of it. She’s not a good friend.

I’m taking the baby and we’re off to visit Third Friend tomorrow, which will be lovely. She lives very close to Former Friend, so I feel stupidly nervous about being in her neck of the woods.

I think, as time goes on, Former Friend is feeling the loss of us on a social level, and is trying to get back what she can. I’m sure she cared about us in a way, though I can’t say I believe that much anymore, but I think it’s mainly the loss of social life she’s mourning.

In other news, I ran ten miles with the baby in a pram. Yes, my body hurts from head to toe, but I’m so chuffed with myself.

P.S. totally relating to the ladder analogy. I can feel the wounds this has caused in my emotional wellbeing. Those scars will always be there.

Edited

Platonic? Well she has never kissed you “platonically” has she?
You are doing all the right things OP and I think you gradually feel a weight being lifted off your shoulders as you realise that you weren’t really happy with your husband anyway.
As for the “friend”, she is just doing damage control

Nicebloomers · 14/05/2024 08:51

‘Platonic’ kissing 😂😂😂 Absolutely just don’t engage. She’ll just drain your energy and talk lies. You’re doing well and you don’t need her dragging you down again with her nonsense.

Tell third friend we all think she’s awesome. Well done on your running exploits. What a goddess you are.

BirthdayRainbow · 14/05/2024 09:07

The ladder analogy is very good.

I am in therapy and when I read back through my notes it is always shocking at how badly I felt then as the pain has eased a bit as I'm no longer with STBEH but then it is hard when I see him and like yesterday have to talk to him. I said to him it was better that we weren't fighting but it is still really hard. I hate how my brain is tricking me into talking to him as if we were okay when we aren't and will never be so.

friend number 3 totally has your back @Totalfuckingshitshow and you'll be with her even if you did see former never was a friend friend. Just look straight through her if you do see her.

MsRosley · 14/05/2024 10:08

Stay strong, OP. And keep that 'friend' out of your head and out of your life.

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