He finally told me why he hasn't been able to tell me he loves me...

[Tearroller]

My ex husband of 1 year came over tonight to talk about us potentially getting back together after we recently went on a few dates to see if we could revive our marriage. His request. I was saddened to end my marriage but needed so much more from him: love, sex, affection and commitment- all of which were missing. We have continued to get along and raise our children pretty well as a coparenting team. So, I was open to the discussion.

By the end of the conversation, I just feel so upset. First we both discussed our core values which are quite different in some ways, so we acknowledged that there could be some issues there. I talked about the things I needed from our marriage- all the things that were missing- him telling me he loves me, physical touch etc.

He managed explain for the first time (thankfully but upsettingly) that the reason he has felt unable to love me or be affectionate with me in recent years is because of these values. One of my values is freedom and primarily having the freedom to express myself, my feelings, my thoughts. He told me that he finds this unattractive and that because I am so open and expressive and will speak up about things I feel are wrong it has caused him to feel less attracted to me and unable to tell me he loves me. This value is such a big part of me that him basically implying that he sees this characteristic as ugly has really hurt my feelings. Although I am glad he has told me.

What do you make of this?
My head is spinning.
I feel like he has never really loved me for me if this is how he feels.
Will any man ever value this characteristic in a future relationship?

" One of my values is freedom and primarily having the freedom to express myself, my feelings, my thoughts. He told me that he finds this unattractive and that because I am so open and expressive and will speak up about things I feel are wrong it has caused him to feel less attracted to me and unable to tell me he loves me"

He wants a "Stepford wife" OP, who's going to be a sexual housekeeper who doesn't challenge him too much.

Next !!

Run for the hills!
He wants to control you. He is no good to anyone.
He has problems with your freedom, well he can fuck off right away.
Find yourself a real man, instead of this idiot.
Actually DO tell him that much: after listening to your BS, I have decided to go and find myself a real man,instead of a pathetic excuse for one!

Yes. That’s how I read it too. It made angry on OPs behalf.

'One of my values is freedom and primarily having the freedom to express myself, my feelings, my thoughts. He told me that he finds this unattractive' I suppose it depends how you express yourself. If it's having shouting matches about politics on a night out with friends I can see it might affect how someone feels about someone. If it's just having opinions then obviously that's different.

My first knee jerk reaction was that he is some horrible red pill type who wants a woman to look pretty and shut up with her feeble minded opinions. A misogynist basically.

However, on reading your OP again it's not really clear what you mean by "expressing yourself". Does this mean putting your opinions across in a calm, sensitive way or does it means steamrolling over everyone with unwanted opinions and telling them they're wrong simply because they don't agree with you?

I have experienced quite a few of the "I'm JUST being honest" types and frankly, they are insufferable pricks. They use the "I'm just being honest" caveat to spit out all kinds of unkind, rude opinions which hurt people and are completely unwanted. So, it really depends on what expressing yourself means in real terms.

Yes, you absolutely should feel free to express yourself but how is this done in practice? If you are just stomping over everyone with your need to be "right" despite how hurtful it might be then I can see his side of this and I get it.

What👏does👏freedom👏and👏expressing 👏yourself👏mean👏OP👏?👏

Seriously, what? Why so vague? Because it seems like you've used those words on purpose when perhaps there is some truth to what he's saying.

Does your freedom mean partying often and leaving the children?

Does it mean open relationships?

Does expressing yourself mean shouting and saying hurtful things?

Does it mean a lack of social skills?

And people are unquestionably stating that you dodged a bullet. If you don't elaborate, the answers you get will go your way, but they won't be very helpful.

Well I guess he's being honest with you.

I'd be interested to know how your "freedom" manifests itself.

One of my values is freedom and primarily having the freedom to express myself, my feelings, my thoughts.

What does this actually mean? It seems obvious, but it's clearly a sticking point between you so I think we need more information.

I am so open and expressive and will speak up about things I feel are wrong

What sort of things? Are we talking world peace, or ranting about the neighbours' bins?

OP I think he’s misogynistic and wants you to be someone you are not. I think either you love someone or you don’t.

On the slim chance you do have a difficult to be around personality you might want to ask a trusted friend to see if you may be need to tone it down a bit. I have a relative who is very opinionated and often angrily so. Will draw you into a ‘debate’ and get angry with you for having a differing view. A couple of years later she’ll hold the opposite opinion and hold that just as angrily. She is awful to be around and hard to love. I’ve gone LC with her because it’s just toxic to be around - constantly trying to avoid conflict over things that really don’t need arguing about (e.g. choice of car). If you are anything like this then it might be worth working on it BUT his withdrawal or withholding of affection is equally toxic. He should request a behaviour change ‘e.g. ‘I can see that you feel so passionately about XYZ but I find the anger in your tone difficult to be around.’ So I’m absolutely not in camp DH, even if you are like this!!

He does not love you, your marriage ended because of it, it will not be any different this time. This is not the person for you, move on with your life.

Well thank goodness he's an ex.

Will any man ever value this characteristic in a future relationship?

Yes. Not just DP but all of the men I'm friends with value women's opinions. If they didn't I wouldn't be friends with them, let alone in a relationship.

So he doesn't like your personality? That's pretty much the whole of you. Good job he's your ex then isn't it?! Glad you're not together anymore. You'll find someone who loves everything about you, you deserve better.

What do you mean by express yourself and thoughts though?

If it's that you just like to speak to your spouse about your life, how you're feeling either because you like the closeness of that with a partner, for advice, so that you can sort issues or just to let off steam about something?

Or are you talking about coming across blunt and rude to others, like friends and family members under the guise of expressing yourself.

Or are you someone who thinks they know everything about everything, like watching the news with you is unbearable or trying to tell you something new and you're butting in with a know it all attitude, derailing the original convo often by expressing yourself.

If it's the first then your ex sounds unreasonable as that seems perfectly normal to me and I imagine to majority of people. Some people are intimidated by open people
Although if someone wants to talk about everything in minute detail and analyse every little thing, I couldn't stand that, but others like that.

If its anything along the lines of the other two I'd find it unbearable but I also wouldn't marry someone I found unbearable.

Only you can really know what he means by that but don't go back to him.because you think you have no options. What he finds annoying someone else will find endearing.

Will any man ever value this characteristic in a future relationship?

Yes, but it depends on how you do it and if its balanced.

I couldn't stand to be in a relationship with someone who just agreed with everything I said, I enjoy being challenged and someone with their own mind and opinions. It's stimulating and interesting to me. I have no interest in being with someone who just agrees with everyone out of fear of rejection, it's deeply unattractive and boring. I like passionate people.

That said, my ex was insufferably opinionated about everything and he was awful to be around. He had an opinion on every tiny thing and if it wasn't done "his way" he'd argue until he was blue in the face why his way was best. These werent big important issues mind (although he had lots of opinions on them too), he'd argue and rant about tiny insignificant things and even something as small as the way the kettle was filled would result in arguments and ranting about how it "ought to be done". I left him because it was completely unbearable to be around. It felt like being in the army and that every tiny thing I did was being micro managed. I'm sure he would have said "I have a right to express myself" too- but his expression always resulted in conflict, anger and stubborn self righteousness.

So, yes, decent men want women to express themselves but balance is key here and I agree with a PP that it might be worth checking with a friend if you feel your expressiveness and "freedom" is leaning too much towards being off-putting rather than healthy.

Ah patriarchy the gift that keeps giving. This "man" is a literal embodiment of patriarchy. Change yourself to fit in with how I think you should be because I am the man and therefore more important.
There aren't two sides to every argument by the way. As Superman said " there is a right and a wrong in the universe and its not difficult to see which is correct."

In what way is this a case where there aren't two sides? OP has listed some very vague and odd-sounding reasons, without elaborating in the slightest.

Fuck that shit! It’s not the 1950’s! OP you will absolutely find someone who not just appreciates, but LOVES that side of you. My DP does with me. and my eldest daughter, who is also cut from the same cloth, DP loves her forthright nature.

I wrote that because its true. There aren't two sides of equal value. There may be two opinions or views. But not of equal worth. I would say even having the barest of information from the op ,that she should not embark on a quest to change a core value because a man she left because he made her unhappy told her to. But I am a simple person .

I don’t read it that your values don’t align.

He finds fundamental aspects of your character unattractive, there is no fixing that.

Basically, you will need to change and why should you. It is cruel for him to say that he loves you apart from these core parts of you/your personality.

Acknowledge that he doesn’t love you for the person you are, grieve for the relationship that is over, and move on.

For me, it depends on what feelings and thoughts you’re expressing and when.

for example, someone cooks you a meal. And you tell them it’s horrible. Not ok. You beleive the world is flat and you like to express this on the regular. You make comments about gay people or ethnicity minority’s or anything else in a negative manner. Not ok.

so expressing your thoughts and feelings is a very complex thing, as there is absolutely some thoughts and feelings you shouldn’t have never mind express.

I suppose it depends on how opinionated you are and the manner you choose to express yourself.

Someone I know is very opinionated, to the point of embarrassment and relish's then telling all and sundry about her run ins with people, like it's some sort of badge of honour. I've also noticed she takes on the persona of whatever the person she admires, while watching a television series, the last one was Griselda 😂

As other posters have said, it all depends on what you mean by expressing yourself. Most of us know opinionated bores who have to share every thought they have and have no filter between that and what comes out of their mouths. Otoh, if he expects you to #BeKind and not have any opinion whatsoever at any point then you're better off without him.

It's impossible to say for certain, but it sounds like you're just not right for each other.

He can’t love you unless you only say what he wants to hear. Urgh how utterly unattractive he is. You threw this one away for a reason, you’ll need to detangle yourself again as he’s reeling you in but it will be so worth it.

A partner should share your core values and love you for who you are. This one does not. He’s not worth your time, effort or headspace.

You may feel up and down about dumping him for a little while but that’s just you processing the head mangling he’s put you through.

Yes, agree. Those #BeKind bores attract a lot of men who like to see women and not hear them. Ditto with #Blessed and often sadly #BossBitch - all usually posted by women who are keenly aware of how much emotion they are allowed to share on SM and still post pictures in bikinis to keep their male audience happy. They never seem to date though...

Personally I think I would rather be single than have to do that dance, but each to their own.

What do you make of this?

That you are so lucky he’s your ex. That explanation sounds horrible.

Will any man ever value this characteristic in a future relationship?

YES! So many men will appreciate you telling them what you feel and want.
I have never ever met a man that liked to guess or walk around in the dark…

Wow, run for the hills! If you get back together you will feel you can’t express yourself, and you will shrink into a perfect little meek wife. But if you ever do speak out about anything and he punishes you for it (silent treatment included) he will be able to truthfully say that he told you he didn’t like you expressing yourself, and you got back together knowing this was the case. Is this the future you want for yourself and your children?