Is this financial abuse

[Liliana2323]

Hi, ill try to summarise as it's a long, 18yr story!

• met when I was 22, hubby was 30
• I had no assets, he had 2 rental properties
• he got made redundant and suggested a move to Europe, I gave up my career and followed him
• have both worked online for the last 15yrs
• he bought house we're in outright. Not a million pound villa but a 200k huge renovation project. Both funded the renovations, he has done a lot of physical work on and off over the last 10 years
• married with a prenup for his rental properties and the one we're living in
• I started new business 7yrs ago, doing well
• he hasn't worked for 18 months so far, nor done renovations (until a couple of weeks ago)
• house still needs a lot of work, still dont even have 1 fully functioning bathroom!

So the main issue here is that he is quite financially controlling. We use his personal account for day to day bills and expenses, or my business card. my business dividends goes 50/50 to our personal accounts (as he set himself up as a 50% shareholder), then I have to immediately transfer mine to his account. If I go to the supermarket (rare, as he took over that role), or away for a family visit in the UK (twice a year max), he gives me a spare card in his name. He has a couple of loans we effectively both pay + savings, pension, investments and the 2 cars are both in his name.

This arrangement never felt quite right but whenever ive tried in the past to broach the subject it turns nasty and nothing ever changes, despite promises to have a joint account, him to invest money for me, me to have a pension etc it never happens.

It has come to a head for me really as we're 5 months pregnant with a first, long awaited baby. For the first 4 months he didn't seem interested at all, in fact he was quite difficult to be around and we had a lot of arguments with him saying quite horrific things about me/us. I felt terrible, had to sleep on an ancient mattress in the spare room (he snores) and generally uncared for and unsupported. Since Christmas he has in general been quite nice, despite a couple of nasty arguments.

I am thinking of whether to leave or not because i'm panicking about the future, whether we'll stay together, will I end up a single mum in a foreign country with an unfair custody situation and struggling to make ends meet, or should I go back to the UK and my family and friends. If I stayed abroad and we then divorced, I wouldn't be allowed to move back to the UK with my baby, unless he agreed.

I suppose i'm just wondering if this is really classed as financial abuse? Or just a stupid situation which has developed over the years, unintentionally?

I think i'm a bit of a pushover with him and I hate conflict. He's quite loud and aggressive so I have avoided the issue but enough is enough now, with a baby and our future to consider. I tried to talk about my concerns a few nights ago, he shouted a lot, told me he paid for this house and I should be grateful etc but nothing has changed since financially.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

Thanks. I have a lot on my mind and hormones all over the place. Moving countries was huge and leaving who I thought was my best friend since I met him at 22 and of course the most appealing option to stop the pain/guilt/lost feeling is to fix things with him but I know that's not the sensible option and I can't risk getting stuck there, although I do miss France and the simple life. Here its how it was when I left, stressful, huge mortgages, the rat race and no one has time for anything.

Why don't you have a think about what your ideal is over here? Somewhere more rural but close ish to family? Work towards that.
You have birthed a child and are looking after a tiny baby on your own. Of course you are going to be thinking about the what ifs! Plus the long history together etc. The thing is though, this man isn't on your team. He will never be on your team. He will always, without a doubt, look out for his own interests.
Your last two posts show that you are clearly aware of this, you have always managed to minimise, empathise with him and ignore his behaviour when it was just you, which is sad in itself, but as soon as you got pregnant you woke up.
This time right now is difficult, it will pass. It would be awful to end up back in the same relationship that made you so unhappy because you are lonely. You have spent so long with a self serving person that you can't imagine anything else. You cannot share a life with someone so selfish. You cannot raise a daughter with a man so inherently selfish because she will grow up and expect nothing else herself.
He is still controlling and manipulating you, which is probably why he hasn't batted an eyelid as to how things have turned out. He knows he can still control you from a distance. He knows you are too nice and won't want to upset him.
I hope you start to put some boundaries in place soon. Keep all talk child related. It is non of his business what you decide to do with your money from now on. It's yours. He sees it as his because he thinks you will go back with your tail between your legs and he will take it all back off you anyway.
The only person you are hurting with the type of contact you are having now is you. Stop tying yourself in knots to make it easier for you to go back. You know what you would be walking into, you can't claim ignorance anymore.
Or alternatively, you could be honest and say you are planning on going back and would like our help in protecting yourself and your baby as much as you can. The naivety isn't fooling anyone and that's why posters are upset. You are more than aware what your life would look like when you go back and that's discounting him ramping up the abuse to teach you a lesson. This man is skilled at the insidious, creeping abuse that makes you forget that you are an equal person to him and deserve to be treated as such.
Just be honest and we will help as much as possible.

OP, try to remember what he has actually done to you.

Remember that you had tried, repeatedly, to tell him how you were feeling and what you wanted/ needed to feel reassured/ respected/ listened to etc

And what did he do ? He refused to 'allow' you access to your own damn business. He refused to give to any kind of financial 'freedom', he refused to consider your feelings/ thoughts/ wants/ needs, and just continued to gaslight you, lie to you etc

Yet you're now feeling that you maybe didn't give HIM a 'chance' to 'improve'??
You think he should somehow be given special consideration because he'd had a bad year???

Having a 'stressful' time doesn't give him an excuse to financially abuse you OP, it's just you trying to find 'reasons' for him being abusive !

He never needed a 'reason', he simply IS ABUSIVE.

Another poster wrote

''You are doing a lot of stressful things at the same time: moved countries, moved house, separated from your partner and you have had a major operation and have a brand new human being to look after as well ! That’s a lot.''

And yet YOU haven't used that as an 'excuse' to abuse anyone else, have you ?
No, because you're NOT abusive. It's not in your character, so no amount of 'bad luck', bad years, or bad anything would make YOU abuse someone else.

It is simply who, and what HE IS.

He can put on a half descent 'act' for a while, but he cannot sustain it because it's false. It's simply a lie. He is not a 'good' person underneath the 'act'.

There was never, ever going to be a 'happy ending' with him, no matter what else happened in your lives. He will always be who he is, an abusive and controlling prick with no empathy or consideration for anyone but himself.

I understand the 'what if' thoughts, but I'd like you to turn it around.

Instead of thinking 'what if I had...', start it with 'what if HE had....actually listened....actually cared.....actually given me what I asked for...etc etc

It's HIS actions/lack of action that have led you to leave him for your own and your childs wellbeing. He has NEVER put either your or your DC's wellbeing above his own selfish and greedy 'wants'.

Not going to add to the brilliant support you've been offered here, but just wanted to say that if you miss the French life - and I get that - you can always move back once the financial settlement is in place and he can't do anything to change it. Not back to him, I mean, but back to somewhere completely your own, on your own terms. You don't have to stay in the UK.

Thanks. I'm totally aware of how things would be before everything is finalised and I have the money and business sorted. I wouldn't even consider going back otherwise. Hes also said he'll sign anything needed so I have full custody as he wants me to visit and knows im worried about that. I understand everything you are saying and appreciate all the advice. Its just hard after all these years to just cut ties and I don't really want to as we have our daughter and despite him stacking the finances in his favour all these years (he now accepts that he should have made sure I had an investment for security) he is not an inherently nasty or vindictive person (controlling and at times selfish, yes), id never have married him nor stayed in France. He was good to me for many years, helped me to fulfill my lifelong dream of having horses, put up miles of fencing for them, always looked after me and worked hard renovating the farm with a bad back etc it's just something changed a couple of years ago and both of us stopped making an effort and I got increasingly fed up with working all the time and still being poor, him not making an effort to find a new job etc so there are other factors involved. Please don't worry as I wouldn't even consider going bwvl unless finances and custody are sorted and he accepts his role in the breakdown of our marriage and we get counselling. Even then I don't know for certain that's what I want and if that would be better for baby than us living alone in the UK. So no decisiomd will be made for many months

While you are still thinking you might go back to him you will not focus on making the best life you can now for your child. That will not be going back to an abusive, controlling man. They dont change, except to get worse.

I repeat - find some clubs, make mum friends, you will feel very different when you do. A new baby is the easiest way to make friends, get out there!

Well if you go back, are all resident there, registered at school/doctors you will not be able to take her out the country without a HUGE battle.

So you will be in the weakest, worst position you have been in to date. Sympathy will run out. Deservedly.

The abuse will reach breathtaking levels and it is DD I worry for now.

Hi OP, I've just read the whole thread, I was totally gripped by your story, I'm so pleased you got out. I think it's natural to miss your ex. You had 18 years together, of course you have plenty of good memories. Don't see it as 18 wasted years, you've done so much.
Your regret makes sense, now he's being nice you're reminded of all the things you liked about him in the beginning. But keep reminding yourself that he's only doing it because you left, it's impossible to know what would have happened if you'd stayed and had it out with him like you wish you had - but the past 2 years give you enough clues.
I'm an expat and had my children in Europe, and life with a newborn is overwhelming in the best of circumstances. Yours aren't, you're probably high risk for post natal depression, given all you've been through.
Think the thoughts of getting back with him one day, then put them firmly in the "things to decide when I've got through this" box, and focus on the things you can do now to make your life bearable. You don't have to swear that you'll never get back with him, just tell yourself not to make a decision today. If it helps.
I'm sorry if I'm jumping in at the end and being patronizing, but you really touched me and I wanted to send you a thumbs up, wish you all the best.

@likespiano thank you so much, and you're not being patronising! I feel like life has changed beyond all recognition and it's just hard to come to terms with. I'm so blessed to have my little girl here safely and I really am focusing on her. Its just particularly hard as we'd wanted children the entire 18 years but it finally happened via ivf and then I jumped ship. It's difficult not to feel guilty about it as had he known what was at stake he might have sorted the financial situation out and the rest we could have worked on. That's what i'm finding the hardest. He sounds like a total monster but he was a great husband in many ways until the last 1-2 years and i'm not perfect, I let him take control, then I let the resentment build up, stopped making an effort and let our marriage deteriorate (as did he). Im aware post natal depression is potentially going to be an issue but despite feeling up and down, I feel ok and like im coping. I have a beautiful baby, dog and horses relying on me! I won't do anything which jeopardises our security and being together.

You’re saying you wanted children all those years and eventually you became pregnant through ivf and “then jumped ship”.
The way I see it is that you left because the pregnancy brought you to the harsh realisation that you were in an abusive relationship and your instincts kicked in before your baby was born.
Your husband seems to be taking the separation in his stride and seems confident that he can worm his way back in, suggesting you buy a doer upper sound like he plans on moving in to do it up!
Just put ALL plans on hold for at least a year and give yourself a chance to get to know yourself again, without his constant input and him planning your future for you. He seems detached and a very selfish man.
Do your best for yourself, you’re obviously a very capable woman so trust yourself and the decision you made to leave him.
Stop questioning yourself that IF you had spoken to him and told him how you felt that he would have had the chance to change his behaviour.
The truth of it is that he was doing a lot of questionable things and all to HIS benefit (disguised with the theory of looking out for you).
you took drastic steps to leave, WITH REASON.

It's absolutely fine to feel guilty - you'll feel it anyway, and berating yourself for feeling "wrong" feelings is just icing on the (already awful) cake. Feel them, miss your past life, have a wallow (I have a special bench in my garden for this) then put it away.
I can't imagine you're in a good place right now - you're on your own renting? In a country you haven't lived in for 18 years? And a single mum, having to do everything a newborn needs by yourself? Are you working as well? That's HUGE, don't forget to give yourself credit for everything you've managed. I'm so glad you're coping and don't think you need to aim higher than that at present.
Missing him... Sure, you could have given him more chances, explained that you'd taken steps towards leaving. But there's no guarantee he'd have believed you. People don't, until it happens. Perhaps he'd have believed you if you had calmly informed him about your plan to leave on X date - and then your passport might have mysteriously vanished.
Funnily enough, if things are ever to work between you, I think you've done the best possible thing you can by leaving. I don't want to enable abuse - totally agree with Ogham's comment above - but it's ok to think about it longly now. Just as long as you don't do anything. Then in a year's time, when you're happier and can see beyond the immediate future, look back and think what a near miss you had.

How are you and your baby OP?

Hi everyone, just a quick update. I just read through all our past conversations, to remind myself why I did what I did!

Baby girl is 7 weeks old this Friday and the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, love her more and more each day.

I'm still in the UK and have rented for a year. I'm struggling to find time to make new friends, with baby, business, dog and the 2 horses, but I have downloaded an app which should help.

Our divorce is going to the court to approve on the 4th. I'm finding it all very sad, still go through every emotion under the sun each day! Ex is still on his best behaviour. We shall see if it'll last. He's coming over next week to see baby and to sort out the garden at the rental house he's having to sell as part of the divorce.

I will update you all in a few days!

Stay strong. You have it. You have a lot on your plate at the moment, but you will look back in the future and know you did the right thing. Thanks for updating and know there are people out here who care about you and your beautiful baby girl.

OP have read your thread (but never commented), and perhaps you don't realise how well you are doing. Also with a dog and a baby in tow I'm sure you will meet loads of people locally which will help you to settle.
I think it is very easy to feel regret for the relationship lost, but you have to ask yourself would your exH have really up for fixing it in the moment, your leaving has shaken him to the core now and he feels sorry and has regrets, but would he have seen things your way at the time?? Probably not as you were pushed to the limit.
You have done the best for you and your baby, well done x

Stay strong. You have had to do so much whilst pregnant and it will take time to adjust and accept what's happened and to move forward.
It sounds like you had no choice but to flee (I had to but with fewer financial ties or children in the mix etc). That was some 15 years ago and my life has changed beyond recognition.
This is still early days and pleased to hear ex is 'behaving' but don't be sucked back in. The reality is what you lived with for 18 years. He may or may not be up to something but just always be on your guard. Sadly leopards never change their spots.
You did absolutely the right thing for you and your daughter. She possibly saved you from a pretty miserable life.

X

Hi @Liliana2323

when I read your posts I find myself thinking oh no… what was she advised to do… oh lord… I feel that anxiety like maybe the thread ran with the wrong sentiment, or latched onto something actually insignificant and blew it out of proportion.

so twice now I reread the entire thread. You have done the right thing. I’ll say it again. You have done the right thing Liliana! Your situation was so far from acceptable and financially unfair. As you said many times, you tried to address it and it would blow up or make things worse. So remember that, you tried everything. You really did.

He is paying attention now, but look what it took. Look at the stress on you it took to get him to pay attention, to you! To what you felt was important, whether he found it important or not - that is sign of a good partner. He doesn’t need to feel the same but he needs to feel protective of how you feel. (I hope that makes sense).

I am guessing you are mourning the relationship, why wouldn’t you. But don’t regret or doubt the situation that put you here. You were looking out for your future self and you were very brave. You acted when you had two choices - stay and suck it up, or leave. Sorting it out was not an option - he proved that by never sorting it (or - more accurately - he actively sorted out your family finance in a way that seriously disadvantaged you).

much love and I hope you feel good about this soon xx

Reread your posts from the beginning. He sucked you in being nice initially and when you were under his control he saw no need to keep the mask in place. The mask is back to suck you back in again. Stay strong.

Thanks everyone. The difficulty is that it's not like he was horrible for the entire 18 years. It was really the money situation and the limited options I had in the end, that made me do what I did. I need to stay on good terms for our baby's sake as he definitely intends to be involved in her life, but I won't get sucked back in. It'll be interesting to see if his behaviour changes when the divorce is finalised!

Just checking in OP and hoping things are ok.

Don’t want to be a nuisance, but thinking of you and your daughter. Been a few weeks since we heard from you. Are you ok?

Hi, thanks for asking and sorry ive been quiet.

Our baby is now 4 months old and the most beautiful thing ive ever seen. Such a happy, smiling baby and very loved.

Regarding my ex, e're now officially divorced and financials agreed, unfortunately it cost an arm and a leg with solicitors in 2 countries . He says we could have sorted it out ourselves, but I very much doubt he would have been fair (ish) otherwise! We are on good terms and though he still believes he did nothing wrong, or at least he won't admit it, he is still being really nice and making an effort, we speak most days by message/voice which I know is a bit strange given the circumstances. My emotions are still up and down about it all. I miss him and thr good times we had and the hopes and dreams for the future and it's really sad we'll never be that happy little family. I wish we'd had counselling or something a couple of years ago and maybe we could have addressed the underlying issues which were affecting our marriage but now it's too late. We both live in different countries, with separate lives :( Interestingly, he now has a job (essentially as he lost my income + a rental income), has cut down the drinking massively, has lost weight etc but he's also had some crazy things happen to him like being attacked by a swarm of hornets and being covered in stings, standing on a nail and having a recurrent rash under investigation, slipping over and hitting a tree, and driving his quad bike into a ditch obscured by long grass and flying over the handlebars! Various other things....seems to be having a run of bad luck! A year to remember for both of us.....

Ps no intention of going back, although I do miss the good times, the space and weather of SW France, but am starting to make some friends here and my sister who lives down the road has just had a baby. She's another with a useless partner with anger issues. It's not even like we were brought up thinking that is normal as my dad is the most placid, non-confrontational person ever. Is it a sign of the times?

Did you manage to get your pets out too?