Is this financial abuse

[Liliana2323]

Hi, ill try to summarise as it's a long, 18yr story!

• met when I was 22, hubby was 30
• I had no assets, he had 2 rental properties
• he got made redundant and suggested a move to Europe, I gave up my career and followed him
• have both worked online for the last 15yrs
• he bought house we're in outright. Not a million pound villa but a 200k huge renovation project. Both funded the renovations, he has done a lot of physical work on and off over the last 10 years
• married with a prenup for his rental properties and the one we're living in
• I started new business 7yrs ago, doing well
• he hasn't worked for 18 months so far, nor done renovations (until a couple of weeks ago)
• house still needs a lot of work, still dont even have 1 fully functioning bathroom!

So the main issue here is that he is quite financially controlling. We use his personal account for day to day bills and expenses, or my business card. my business dividends goes 50/50 to our personal accounts (as he set himself up as a 50% shareholder), then I have to immediately transfer mine to his account. If I go to the supermarket (rare, as he took over that role), or away for a family visit in the UK (twice a year max), he gives me a spare card in his name. He has a couple of loans we effectively both pay + savings, pension, investments and the 2 cars are both in his name.

This arrangement never felt quite right but whenever ive tried in the past to broach the subject it turns nasty and nothing ever changes, despite promises to have a joint account, him to invest money for me, me to have a pension etc it never happens.

It has come to a head for me really as we're 5 months pregnant with a first, long awaited baby. For the first 4 months he didn't seem interested at all, in fact he was quite difficult to be around and we had a lot of arguments with him saying quite horrific things about me/us. I felt terrible, had to sleep on an ancient mattress in the spare room (he snores) and generally uncared for and unsupported. Since Christmas he has in general been quite nice, despite a couple of nasty arguments.

I am thinking of whether to leave or not because i'm panicking about the future, whether we'll stay together, will I end up a single mum in a foreign country with an unfair custody situation and struggling to make ends meet, or should I go back to the UK and my family and friends. If I stayed abroad and we then divorced, I wouldn't be allowed to move back to the UK with my baby, unless he agreed.

I suppose i'm just wondering if this is really classed as financial abuse? Or just a stupid situation which has developed over the years, unintentionally?

I think i'm a bit of a pushover with him and I hate conflict. He's quite loud and aggressive so I have avoided the issue but enough is enough now, with a baby and our future to consider. I tried to talk about my concerns a few nights ago, he shouted a lot, told me he paid for this house and I should be grateful etc but nothing has changed since financially.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

If he acknowledged his behaviour had put you in this situation you would not be facing a court case in France over jurisdiction and he would already have turned YOUR business over to you.

Your post at 08.13 yesterday said "Every time I speak to him I end up feeling upset and anxious." Why do you think it would be any different if he was abusing you face to face instead of over the phone?

Put yourself and your child before this abuser.

@pinkyredrose well it started quite innocently. When we moved abroad we set up a limited company 50/50 to do freelance work through. Then 5-6 years ago we set up my business (solely for me to run) and did the same 50/50 thing as he said it was better for tax

He’s a clever man and knows how to manipulate you while putting on a front of how caring he is - saving on tax etc.
This is why you shouldn’t be meeting him. You will always be susceptible to manipulation by him, while hoping that he is magically going to have an epiphany and come good after all those years. You want to look in his face and see if anything has changed - you always will. So you need to parent both yourself and your child by being protective with boundaries and other people around.

The problem is I want us to have a civil relationship for our child's benefit. I don't want us at each others throats. But I also want a fair deal and to be free from his control but on the best terms possible. I don't want a hostile environment for our baby. Plus I still can't get over this guilt about walking out with no warning. I had to do it due to the risk of being stuck in France and to try to get a better divorce outcome as in France it would have left me severely disadvantaged but it all feels so calculated - am I any better than him now? So I want to hear him out and at least make him feel like he has some say in the outcome, even if I turn down his proposal. I will have to think long and hard about it. I won't agree to anything today. Plus I have to see my mum as a priority as she is not doing well with her post-op infection. My dad got home at 1am last night

Oh good grief @Liliana2323 I can't tell you how much I want to reach through my screen and shake you by your shoulders. Please wake up.

What you want is ONLY achievable with a normal, decent human being. He isn't one. He is abusive, manipulative, controlling, devious, charming, probably vindictive. You need to put as much protection around you as you can. Only once you are mentally and emotionally protected can you start the process of civility. Until then use others as your shield. Solicitor, friends, Women's Aid, therapist, family, GP, DA charity, support worker, midwife. Use email and text NOT phone calls or face to face where he can fuck around with your head even more.

I'm going to be very plain here. Extreme stress can cause untold damage to an unborn baby, to the point you can end up killing it. Do you really want a stillborn at 40 weeks because you feel a bit mean to an abusive man? You have already said she is struggling so it won't take much for her heart to stop. I lost my baby at 41 weeks as her heart just stopped. One minute it was beating in the midwife's room, then it wasn't. The damage that has done to me mentally, emotionally and physically is still very raw thirty years later. Just fucking stop until she is born. Please.

And now I'm out from this thread. I have nothing left to give. Good luck OP.

I am out too. There is nothing more for me to say either.
Except Good Luck, you will need it if you keep ignoring advice.

There will be absolutely NO civility with this man. He is simply trying to fuck you over and you simply refuse to see it.

@AutumnFroglets 💕

@AutumnFroglets

I'm so sorry, it's unthinkable what you've been through

OP you aren't listening and of course you don't have to, you're an adult and must make autonomous decisions.

But meeting up with him while you are vulnerable to manipulation and seeking answers / civility / acknowledgment he has been in the wrong is madness.

People like him don't admit they are wrong unless temporarily and to manipulate you. People like him don't put other people first, even their children.

You can't reason with someone unreasonable.

You need to seek some counselling before you consider meeting up with him if you insist on doing so.

I don't think it is at all in the best interest of your baby for you to meet up with him in person.

For the first 4 months he didn't seem interested at all, in fact he was quite difficult to be around and we had a lot of arguments with him saying quite horrific things about me/us. I felt terrible, had to sleep on an ancient mattress in the spare room (he snores) and generally uncared for and unsupported.

He had you sleep on an ancient mattress instead of simply sleeping on it himself so his pregnant wife could sleep comfortably.

This is not a reasonable man.

Again, you cannot reason with someone unreasonable.

Your last post shows you are in the exact headspace an abuser would want you to be when they plan on meeting you to manipulate you.

You may think we are all being harsh but it's painful and frustrating to watch you sleepwalking into his trap.

You still care about your husband - but as we need to keep reminding you he has shown precious little care for you. Did the limited company for freelance work ever earn enough to pay tax and if so on whose earnings? In your first post you said he hadnt worked for 18 months or done any renovations. You've been helping him pay for his UK properties with no stake in them while he has taken half of the business you built up. If you cant see a difference in your behaviour you are being wilfully blind.

You need to wise up and fast @Liliana2323 or this man will take whatever he can from you and your child. If that means reeling you back in and ensuring you are under his total control in France, that is what he will do. He. Is. An. Abuser.
He cares not a jot for his child, only what she represents, which is control over you.
You are 40 years old and about to be a mother, come on. You would be failing your daughter MASSIVELY, if you 1. End up back with him or 2. Keep pandering to him. Which is what you are doing.
Start reframing you leaving as the best thing you could have done for your child, instead of feeling guilty about him.
Oh and make sure someone's there with you when you meet with him.

@Liliana2323

I understand you want the best outcome for your child.

But read back on your posts.

He is predominantly interested in money. Reminding you of the pre-nup at the first opportunity.

And he still has (for some unfathomable reason) 50% of your business and shows zero sign of giving that up.

And still has (again for some unfathomable reason other than control) sole access to your money.

None of which he has given back to its rightful owner.

Please see this for what it is.

You are far too good and trusting for him. He's a leech.

Sorry but he is.

Hi, since I left he hasn't taken anything from my business and claims he will take his name off it as soon as we've agreed a settlement. Of course I am also not benefiting from his rental income either. I do think he's just keeping it as a bargaining chip

We did end up meeting today and im glad I did as otherwise the first time would have been with a new baby and me probably even more emotional ☺

It went well. He says he understands why I left and that things were going down a bad route but doesn't understand how I did it and wished id just spoken to him. I got upset a couple of times, briefly, but held it together. I was in quite a calm and matter of fact mood today. If id woken up an emotional wreck id have cancelled!

I'm not sure I agree with his out of court proposal. It would give me a roof over my head with a smallish mortgage but it's in an area I don't like and id have to live there for a year to avoid cgt. It's a start though and at least he's finally engaging with proceedings I suppose!

@Liliana2323

What's the proposal OP?

What is the out of court proposal he's suggested?

I'd have to live there for a year to avoid CGT" - really? I admit I'm not an expert on CGT but the one year is about a property being your main residence and you dont have another residence do you? He bought the house you lived it outright but was your name ever on the deeds? The tax people base the main residence for tax purposes on where you actually live if you own more than one property.

I suspect he wants to dispose of one of his rental properties to you - are they even in the uk? He wants to dictate where you live and how long you live there.

Hiya, this is where its a bit uncertain. I left the marital home in France and am living with my parents, so presumably the rental house (in the UK) he would give me, would then be classed as mine and baby's primary residence?

The CGT is quite a lot to forego but means otherwise I have to live somewhere I don't really want to. It's not horrible just not where I would choose.

It would obviously be the least painless option for him! I know he wants to avoid selling the marital home and if he did I don't know where my horse and 2 donkeys would go who he's currently looking after for free. Land is just soooo expensive over here compared to France!

I need to see what my solicitors think tomorrow as the court case is only 2 weeks away. There is a chance it'll still be kept in France and ill come off worse.

I don't think CGT is payable between divorcing couples. Do a bit of googling OP. I think he's trying to have you over, as usual.

He is lying to you about CGT and this proposal is all about making things easy for him. You have an interest in the marital home but was your name ever on the deeds? Regardless it's in France, not here, and your name was never on the deeds of his rental properties, unless he has lied about that too. Do you know the addresses? Has your solicitor checked with the land registry who is registered as the owner(s)?

It sounds like you have never had a main residence for CGT in the uk so CGT for you is irrelevant.

Stop thinking this man cares about you or your child, he doesnt.

I already checked with the hmrc and when transferring the house between spouses or as part of a divorce, you don't have to pay cgt but when selling it on in the future, you do have to. Unless you live in it for a decent length of time.

Yep I am on the deeds of the marital home in France but the contract stated 50% of equity growth.
My name isn't on anything to do with the rental properties as he had them 5yrs prior to us meeting
Solicitor has checked land registry and put in claims on both properties to stop him selling

I saw him again today. We're trying to negotiate a better deal we're both happy with. Apparently after I left (in the 2 week window before he got my divorce papers) he was in the process of working out how to offer the rental place to me but then he realised I was actually filing for divorce....ill never know if that's true but its sad if it is. I know he's made some big mistakes and only time will tell if he will fix them. He says he wishes none of this had happened, that we need to draw a line under the past and fix things for the future. We shall see......but my solicitor is still making sure I get a fair and secure deal first of all and my ex says he wants me to have financial independence if we have a chance of ever reconciling. So in his own way, he does get it

"and my ex says he wants me to have financial independence if we have a chance of ever reconciling"

Oh that's big of him. Who the hell does he think he is? He really does NOT get it. He's just saying the right words to soften you up. Don't fall for it.

But he's still got his fingers in your business!! That should have been the first thing he rectified. He's talking bollocks and doesn't care, he's just keeping you soft to try and minimise the financial pain to him.

Oh OP, he's playing you like a fiddle 😞

He's so manipulative and you're so used to him confusing and overpowering you that you're falling for his faux reasonableness.

I really hope it doesn't last and you see what he is doing before you agree to anything that isn't in your best interests.

I know he's made some big mistakes and only time will tell if he will fix them. He says he wishes none of this had happened, that we need to draw a line under the past and fix things for the future. We shall see......but my solicitor is still making sure I get a fair and secure deal first of all and my ex says he wants me to have financial independence if we have a chance of ever reconciling.

This all very, very much reads like you're considering getting back together with him at some point.

The man who had you sleeping on an uncomfortable mattress, while pregnant, while he had your comfy bed, to punish you for challenging him.

Am I right in thinking you are open to reconciliation with him in future?

I suggest you read back some of your old posts.

The one where he wouldnt let you leave the room.

The one where he came home at midnight shouting.

I like this one.

There's no way I couldn't transfer 50% of my business income. All hell would break loose as he feels it's part of the communal pot

At one point you say "it's not as if he's physically abusive".

Why do you think that is? 🤔 it's because you are scared enough to do as you're told without him having to.

That's why you were trapped in France with no access to money, other than what your Gran gave you.

So the CGT stuff was bullshit? What a surprise.

You're right about one thing. He gets it. He knows exactly what he's doing.

I wouldn't even consider it until I have financial security and independence. So the divorce has to go through, unfortunately. My solicitor is working on a better deal.

Even then, he would need to learn to put baby and me first. He knows I think he's too obsessed with money and that he's behaved like an idiot, the last couple of years in particular. Prior to that things were pretty good between us. We spent 24/7 together for 15 years as living abroad and working from home, so I think maybe in the end it was like a pressure cooker. My words, not his ;)

The mattress thing was really wrong. I should have put my foot down and demanded another sooner, he just didn't want to fork out for another as he didn't really like me sleeping in a different bed, that was the real issue. I ended up getting one a few weeks b4 I left but that should never have happened.

He agrees things were on a downward spiral and needed to change. Seems to think he had to look after the finances because he's better at it (he is really and I let him do it for an easy life, more fool me!)

My family are also worried about me getting too emotionally involved with him but that isn't such a risk once the finances are sorted and I will then have choices for the future. I am really enjoying spending my own money and not explaining anything! Lol But I do miss him after 2/3 of my life seeing him every day and we have pets together and a baby coming, so I would prefer to stay as amicable as possible.

I'm not going to do anything stupid don't worry. Even though the idea of moving back to France for the summer is more appealing than living with my parents, a new baby and my dog! I just can't jeopardise my position so will have to deal with it.

Thanks again for all your support

He knows I think he's too obsessed with money and that he's behaved like an idiot, the last couple of years in particular.

He didn't behave like an idiot. He behaved like an abuser, because he is abusive.

I'm really concerned that you've reframed this in your mind as a good guy who was a bit of a dick to you but is ultimately someone who cares for you and can change.

It was much worse than that.

And men who are controlling, angry, short tempered and demand obedience from their wives exhibit all those behaviours towards their children.

So you need to have a civil relationship with him as coparents, yes, but complete emotional distance and separation from him.

You've even minimised the mattress incident now by saying it was partly your fault for not insisting and that it wasn't for long anyway. He did it to punish you for wanting to sleep separately. While you were pregnant. Good men don't do things like that.