Is this financial abuse

[Liliana2323]

Hi, ill try to summarise as it's a long, 18yr story!

• met when I was 22, hubby was 30
• I had no assets, he had 2 rental properties
• he got made redundant and suggested a move to Europe, I gave up my career and followed him
• have both worked online for the last 15yrs
• he bought house we're in outright. Not a million pound villa but a 200k huge renovation project. Both funded the renovations, he has done a lot of physical work on and off over the last 10 years
• married with a prenup for his rental properties and the one we're living in
• I started new business 7yrs ago, doing well
• he hasn't worked for 18 months so far, nor done renovations (until a couple of weeks ago)
• house still needs a lot of work, still dont even have 1 fully functioning bathroom!

So the main issue here is that he is quite financially controlling. We use his personal account for day to day bills and expenses, or my business card. my business dividends goes 50/50 to our personal accounts (as he set himself up as a 50% shareholder), then I have to immediately transfer mine to his account. If I go to the supermarket (rare, as he took over that role), or away for a family visit in the UK (twice a year max), he gives me a spare card in his name. He has a couple of loans we effectively both pay + savings, pension, investments and the 2 cars are both in his name.

This arrangement never felt quite right but whenever ive tried in the past to broach the subject it turns nasty and nothing ever changes, despite promises to have a joint account, him to invest money for me, me to have a pension etc it never happens.

It has come to a head for me really as we're 5 months pregnant with a first, long awaited baby. For the first 4 months he didn't seem interested at all, in fact he was quite difficult to be around and we had a lot of arguments with him saying quite horrific things about me/us. I felt terrible, had to sleep on an ancient mattress in the spare room (he snores) and generally uncared for and unsupported. Since Christmas he has in general been quite nice, despite a couple of nasty arguments.

I am thinking of whether to leave or not because i'm panicking about the future, whether we'll stay together, will I end up a single mum in a foreign country with an unfair custody situation and struggling to make ends meet, or should I go back to the UK and my family and friends. If I stayed abroad and we then divorced, I wouldn't be allowed to move back to the UK with my baby, unless he agreed.

I suppose i'm just wondering if this is really classed as financial abuse? Or just a stupid situation which has developed over the years, unintentionally?

I think i'm a bit of a pushover with him and I hate conflict. He's quite loud and aggressive so I have avoided the issue but enough is enough now, with a baby and our future to consider. I tried to talk about my concerns a few nights ago, he shouted a lot, told me he paid for this house and I should be grateful etc but nothing has changed since financially.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

Your family know you far better than us and are concerned too so please, please listen to them in the coming weeks and months. They have your best interests in mind. He absolutely doesn't.

R.e. the rental property. My understanding is that you could simply declare it as your Principal Primary Residence to HMRC and after six months you would avoid a lot of CGT - at least it used to be 6 months - it may have changed.

You wouldn’t have to actually live in the rental, but you would need to be on the utilities (water, electricity, gas) and have buildings insurance in your own sole name. However, the house could be in reality empty for those 6 months while you stay with your parents. You don’t actually have to live in a house that is declared as your Principal Primary Residence (this is similar to what Angela Rayner did).

Also, on the pre-nups… it is my understanding (at least in the UK) that if you yourself did not have your own personal legal advice regarding the pre-nups then they are not guaranteed to stand in the UK.

For example if he bamboozled you into signing and you didn’t know the ramifications (no solicitor of your own that had no ties to husband) then they might be worthless to him - this is likely why he wants to use France for the divorce.

If the prenup was set up in the UK then I would hope the french court suggest the divorce should be in the UK.

@TheHornedOne yes that is exactly what happened and it was a few weeks prior to the wedding. I cant remember for certain if he'd mentioned it prior to then, there's a chance he did but to be honest I never thought I was entitled to any more as I didn't bring any money to the table really (in terms of capital) so I went along with it. Although thinking back I did feel a little uneasy about it and the solicitor who was supposed to be working for both of us assured me it was totally normal 🤷‍♀️🙈 I think it is in France!

I'm extremely lucky that the UK system is on my side 🙏

@ReadingSoManyThreads i won't be agreeing to anything which disadvantages me and baby in the future as anything could happen. He claims to want to be in our lives and be there for us forever but like I told him, anything could happen and he'll probably meet someone else.

I didn't go through all this trauma and upheaval to give in and get a bad deal in the end.

I do believe though that some people are capable of change. Maybe not entirely, but they can improve. I can forgive him if I get a good deal and he still continues to be nice, then ill know it's probably genuine. Pre-2022 he was much nicer, not sure what happened

I do believe though that some people are capable of change. Maybe not entirely, but they can improve. I can forgive him if I get a good deal and he still continues to be nice, then ill know it's probably genuine.

It doesn't matter a jot wether he's nice to you now though, once you have left does it? He will be nice until he's not. That will be when you are nice and settled in France with a child and can't leave. Don't underestimate him. He got you nicely under control before you cottoned on didn't he? It's a different ball game when you legally cannot remove his child from France.
You don't get to play naive anymore. Wise up and fast. He has.

I can forgive him if I get a good deal and he still continues to be nice, then ill know it's probably genuine.

When you say you could 'forgive him' do you mean reconcile with him and get back together?

I know, thats why I cant go back to France. There is also a contract you can sign suggested by Arkk, should I ever go for longer than a couple of weeks. I won't be going there without that in place, don't worry. We still need to agree custody etc and he can't come back to the UK until the house is sold which will take 1 year+ so I should get full custody for now at least . My solicitor will sort it all out as she deals with this kind of situation a lot

I cottoned on years ago but let it slide as I didn't really think I had any other options financially and we were still happy in most other ways at that point. Being pregnant totally changed my view on things and luckily I found out I had to leave before she was born or we'd be stuck. I mentioned it to other expat mums and they didn't know either! I also didn't know I could get any protection via UK divorce law. Extremely lucky I found out to be honest! Although it has caused massive stress and upheaval leaving him and my animal children

The relevant legislation for transfers between spouses is here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/12/section/58

The way I read that is that he has transferred the liability for capital gains tax to you. Should you then dispose of the house you will get some private residence relief but as the capital gain will be based on what he paid for the place originally you still potentially get a big tax bill. Very clever of him.

You dont yet have your baby. When you do you'll probably see the advantage of living with parents, although they are likely to want you to move out.

Divorce, secure the financial future for you and your child. If you are then stupid enough to reconcile at least do not remarry.

There is very little point trying or hoping that your ex will align with your narrative of the relationship. If that had been possible, you wouldn't have needed to leave.

Don't waste your time or energy. Speak only on practical topics. Do not discuss the past.

How are you doing?

I imagine you are busy with a baby now - but was also wondering how you are and if it was agreed the divorce would be heard here.

Hi everyone, thanks so much for checking in. It has been a crazy few weeks! My due date and induction is the 18th July. Beforehand I wanted to move into my rental place and move my 2 horses to a field nearby. So that was a lot of work, I literally moved in this Monday. After 4.5 months camping out at my parents. My mum and dad stayed for 2 nights and are coming back to collect me at the weekend as mum wants me to give birth at the hospital there, although now im feeling settled here id quite like to have her here to be honest! I don't want to upset them though as they've really helped me out.

Myself and my soon to be ex husband (still sad about the prospect) agreed an out of court settlement as the solicitor's costs were mounting up and the thought of many months more stress was unappealing. I wasn't guaranteed to have it heard in the UK, nor was he guaranteed to win in France, so he made me an offer and we negotiated a little (within his comfort zone as he clearly wanted to feel like he was "doing the right thing" as opposed to me winning 🙄🤪!). I was under pressure as we had to agree fairly quickly to avoid an imminent court hearing with barristers. Will I live to regret it? I'm not sure. However we are on good terms, speaking daily, and he has apologised for how I was made to feel that I had no security or choices. Of course he still doesn't 100% admit that he was too controlling but he does admit that he knew I wasn't happy and seems to be trying to make amends. At least it's now on my terms. Finally I have freedom and security and being back around my family and old friends is a great feeling! I so miss him and some aspects of rural French life but I think it'll be better for me and baby to be here

What exactly was the settlement you accepted? Did you get your business back?

Basically 35% of property + my business in my sole name + we've taken a car each. He's also agreed via the solicitors to paying some child maintenance each month. So all in all far better than I would have had if id stayed in France and there was a chance French law would have applied, neither side seemed sure of the outcome to be honest but they wanted us to fight it out of course!

I'm finding the whole experience a bit strange to be honest as so much has happened and life has changed so much that I'm struggling at times to know if I did the right thing and was it that bad to have caused such upheaval and financial stress for both of us.

The good thing is that we are on good terms for our baby, I finally have freedom and some security and he is now actively looking for a job (!) and seems very keen to be involved in Amélie's life and I am not stuck forever under his control.

One thing that has become a bit apparent after living with my parents for 4.5 months, is that my mum is far more controlling than I ever really acknowledged. My dad too, to an extent. I wonder if that's why not too many red flags were apparent when I met my husband at 22.... I was still a child and he was quite an 'in control' confident kind of guy but it didn't concern me back then! I also feel like I let him take control of the finances as I don't really like managing money. So I only have myself to blame in many ways...although he definitely has always looked after himself financially. Whether it was because he genuinely assumed we'd always be together (as he would say), or because it was a type of control/entrapment, I suppose ill never know.

OP you included your daughters name in that post so I reported to admins in case you want it removed x

Hi OP,

Just popping in here, Mumsnet is a public site let us know if you want to edit out any private details in any of your posts.

Best wishes,
MNHQ

35%. Yes, fair.

35% of which property, just the one you lived in or all his property, including the ones you helped him pay for over 18 years? Are you getting that in cash or is he gifting you a property and his capital gains tax liability?

Of course he wants to be in your child's life as it gives him the opportunity to try and win back control of you and your business.

35% of all property incl the 2 he bought as buy to lets 3 years before we met, so 21 years ago. I will get it in cash as soon as he sells the smaller house, pays off the mortgage and cgt. Then I can buy something small in my own name. I will lose some of it paying my mum and dad back what ive had to borrow for legal fees, the move and my rent for 6m at the new place.

I get to keep my business (lucky me! lol) so I can afford to bring up his child. He wants to come over for a week a month or so to 'help'.

He does come out of it well but it's typical of him. I had to agree to a settlement at 38 weeks pregnant and whilst trying to move house and animals, so I was desperate for it to be over and he was if course laying it on thick about how expensive the upcoming court battles were going to be, how the total pot would then be smaller, there would be more cgt to pay (true), how much we'd hate each other etc and I caved as I had hours to decide in the end and as I want us to be on good terms for our daughter. He is right, the court battles in both countries are a minimum of 7k a time and we already had 3 scheduled and maybe this is a better way forward but i've sacrificed about 50-75k 😬 he reckons i can recoup that by me buying a doer upper, him renovating it and then me selling it on. But i'm done after 18 years of living in renovation projects lol

On a brighter note, and a slightly scary one, im being induced in 12 days

Well you know he ripped you off totally and you were ok with it so all is good. Very best with baby and beyond.

Thanks. I cant tell if he ripped me off or not, as I came into the relationship without any assets. I'm keeping my business which was a big part of our joint income, whereas he loses one of his rental incomes. It's not totally clear in my heavily pregnant, emotional mind

In the end as long as you have enough for a decent living, whether you get ripped off or not is less important than gaining your independence and working for you. Might be worth getting all the properties independently valued yourself so you know it's 35% of what?

"he reckons i can recoup that by me buying a doer upper, him renovating it and then me selling it on"

@Liliana2323 you really need to stop letting him have so much input and control over your life still. You've left him. You should no longer be giving him information about your private life, because he'll keep telling you what to do. You left him for good reason. If he comes over a week every month, then he stays somewhere nearby, don't be letting him stay in your new home. Letting him do so, enables him to continue his control over you.

He needs to work now, so coming over one week a month and spending that week renovating a property is not likely to be viable for long. Still IF you get the money and If he pays maintenance it may be better than a court battle while you are trying to deal with a new baby.

He's still manipulating you, he's still trying to keep you under his control.

If you want to try and start birth naturally before the induction date try walking and eating dates https://www.tommys.org/pregnancy-information/giving-birth/labour-and-birth-faqs/can-anything-bring-labour#:~:text=The%20theory%20is%20that%20a,during%20pregnancy%2C%20which%20is%20common. 🙂