Aibu- His ex wants him to go to couples therapy

[orsina]

I’ve been dating someone for 9 months. He left his partner shortly before we met. They were married, together 20 years but have no kids. Things have moved fairly quickly as we are late 30s and serious about each other and the same things, and he moved 300 miles down to where I live a couple of months ago so we could be together properly (albeit he has his own place and I have mine.) He hasn’t filed for divorce yet but where we live, his health insurance covered by his wife’s employer is good and he is between jobs right now, and the tax benefits are much better for married. I’m trying to be understanding as I know separations are tough, and I didn’t even mind they are amicable, she still talks to his mum who is going through cancer treatment etc as she’s known her forever, and he went back up to help her when their joint dog was sick which I thought was fair as he loves that dog. She sent him down a Xmas present. But she does know about me - I have iron proof of that. And I know he loves me, we have said it etc.

however. Today he told me that she has asked him to go to couples therapy with her, supposedly not for reconciliation but to help her move on from some things in their marriage. He is very caring about everyone and has considered it as he thinks it’ll help her move on. For me though, I was pretty shocked. This is not something I’ve heard of for couples who don’t have dc they are trying to have an amicable divorce for, or for couples who aren’t looking to reconcile. He doesn’t think it’s odd she asked, or disrespectful to us that he is considering it. They are both in individual therapy anyway. Part of me think if she was dating herself no way would she ask this of him.

Aibu about this? Would you have therapy with an ex you didn’t want to get back with who you didn’t have dc with or any other ties to, especially if you are in a new established relationship? I’m embarrassed to say I got a little upset today when he told me. No moves made to file for divorce although in his state no fault divorce only takes 2 months. Them having therapy when they’re not even officially divorcing makes me feel insecure.

I don't like that she's been called a batshit crazy ex or emotionally immature on this thread, for not letting this 20 year marriage go or not being over her abortion. I think lots of women have very mixed up feelings about termination, if they weren't 100% sure it was the right thing for them in the first place or maybe them not having had children despite being married 20 years has something to do with it, idk. But I do know lots of women feel guilt and loss, even years later.

He's using you both. She probably hasn't let go because he's still behaving like a husband in many respects. He's left her, is seeing you but still benefiting financially from being married to her through the health insurance. That's grim imo. And he's moved away from his mum when she's sick. Also grim.Where's his money coming from if he's unemployed?
They might be a mess as a couple and may end up divorced but he's definitely not ready for you and I don't know why you'd accept being part of this messy situation.

At best, you are the rebound relationship. At worse, him and his wife are simply on a trial separation to see if they can work on their relationship.

Either way, he's controlling and manipulative and, having read the rest of your posts, it's obvious that he is love bombing you then rapidly moving onto the devaluing part of the cycle.

You should leave him asap.

If you really can't, I'd consider contacting his wife. She apparently knows about you. I bet her version of things is very different to his.

Because your 7 year relationship had grown into something you no longer wanted. This relationship is still in the honeymoon period. Your love and connection hormones are all kicking out and you feel bonded to him. This will pass with a period away from him and you'll likely wonder what you saw in him

@orsina This has clearly been an upsetting thread for you but I'm glad you posted and have maybe taken the blinkers off. I agree with most of the red flags highlighted and want to add the contradictions from him.... He loves that you are strong and independent but simultaneously wants you to take on the feminine role so he can feel more masculine!!

All I really want to add here is 2 things:

• Where what he says and what he does don't match, believe the actions over the words. (loves you are strong and independent but actually wants you to be more submissive and controlled by him)
• I get a sense you are beating yourself up a bit about minimising things and not seeing the red flags. Red flags aren't always obvious and the point about them is that when you DO see them, you take action and don't ignore them.

I don't have kids but I have friends with kids who are dating and just the fact he's pushing to meet your daughter and 'be part of your family' would be enough for them to drop him like a hot brick. I have a lot more I could say on this point but honestly, do I need to?

He sounds like he's using you to hurt his wife.
He's not planning on divorcing her, he just wants to play with you both.
He genuinely sounds a really unappealing person, I agree with other poster that you need to cut contact with him and get some therapy

"They are both still affected about an abortion when they were teenagers."

Oh come off it. Agree with most of the others on here. Send this one back to his ex OP.

This thread has been a massive eye opener tbh. Thanks to everyone who has replied. I have been thinking it all over and I can’t believe I minimised this all so much for so long. Case in point, he doesn’t like it if I’m not always able to come to the phone as he says he wants to know he could get me if he really needed me I would be there. I do get that, albeit he is the only person who ever really phones me and my exes/friends etc are a bit younger and we tend to communicate via WhatsApp etc. And I sometimes just can’t or even don’t want to answer the phone, but I do when I can. However I know that when he has been feeling down he has rung his ex as he feels she is reliable and she has always been there for him. She is clearly happy to still be. With this in mind, how can this change, but surely it must if they are truly splitting up? I think he is quite needy and wants to feel secure but it can be extreme. And also, I don’t get why she doesn’t want to move on from a man who is seeing another woman. If i were in this situation even if I still loved the man I would probably go Nc or set boundaries to move on. And clearly she’s not moving on if she needs help from
him in therapy. I actually feel for her a lot and wish I had more empathy for her before.

I agree with this. He will’ eventually go back to his wife

And also, I don’t get why she doesn’t want to move on from a man who is seeing another woman.

There’s a bit of irony in this. You’re the one who is seeing a man who is married. He may be living apart from his wife but they’re clearly not completely divorced - legally or emotionally - and they have a long history together. So perhaps you could ask yourself this same question?

@Saltandpeppero as I have said a few times when I met him he was separated. He has been separated since I knew him and Ibe believed everything he’s told me
about that for a long time. It’s only now that he has been down here for months that I have questioned why he is not taking steps to get legally divorced since he is pushing for more commitment from me like moving in. I don’t see myself as the OW and people do date separated people all the time.

Case in point, he doesn’t like it if I’m not always able to come to the phone as he says he wants to know he could get me if he really needed me I would be there. I do get that

Do you get that? Do you really? Can you imagine controlling your partner in such a way? It sounds utterly suffocating and restrictive.

Why are you still ruminating about the whys and wherefores of their relationship OP? Why either of them do what they are doing doesn't ultimately matter, the effect on you is the same. Where are your thoughts about you in all this?

@SharkieAndGeorge i guess I am thinking about that. He says reliability is key in a partner and that people you love should always pick up the phone to you. He says his whole family do this and his ex (despite the fact she is in a medical profession and presumably works long hours) does too and his best friend from childhood. It does sound like a good thing to do but like in my past long relationship We rarely spoke on the phone, we texted or called in an emergency which was fine, and I didn’t expect my partner to always be available when I called as he might be with others or working, gym etc. I am really bad at answering the phone but I usually text back if I can, and I email and text him every day anyway, on top of seeing him almost every day since he moved here. this man has held this reliability thing up as a compatibility issue between us and if he really does value it that highly it seems that’s another reason for him not to move on from his ex because he gets that from her, but you can’t get serious with someone else and still keep your wife dangling if you are truly separated, surely. She might be reliable but supposedly there were so many other problems?
it’s strange to hear people think he is controlling etc as he is SO good at explaining why his behaviour isn’t unreasonable. But actually it is odd that for example 2’weeks into us chatting he sent me an arsey email asking if I was ashamed of him because he called me when my phone was upstairs charging during dinner when I was visiting family I rarely see!!
I am a normally sensible woman with good boundaries and I cannot imagine how I am questioning myself like this. Currently I am away with dd on a long weekend and I’m anxious that if he calls me and I don’t answer, it will lead to a row. Or I am trying to figure out when I can call him, to head off a row. That is not right is it.

I really haven’t thought about my needs in this. I have asks for a couple days space before when things got intense/after a bad argument and he calls that stonewalling. I got behind with work from seeing him a lot and I know I was prioritising him too much in that way. I’m not thinking about if I want to talk on the phone (which I actually don’t love, ever!) I’m thinking about what would make him happy. I have asserted that I don’t introduce dd until I am very sure about things but I know that makes him feel like he’s not part of my ‘real life’ and he is trying to break down my needs about that. And it’s kind of worked, until now. Like how is he a perfect partner? He is dragging out his marriage, enmeshed with his wife and even weaponising their relationship to upset me, he has stormed off on me on a nice day out I organised, he has had a go at me on phone so much about petty things like missing calls, that I feel anxious to speak to him sometimes. He has called me selfish before and accused me of being too angry and implied that I think it’s normal to shout in front of children (because I have a daughter and my previous relationship broke down acrimoniously, and I shouted at him, so he can’t trust I wouldn’t do that if we had kids. Which is so unfair because I pulled so many punches with my EA ex so as not to argue in front of my daughter.) He is so critical of me actually. And of his ex. He says she lied, she was a cheater, she didn’t offer him emotional support or appreciate his creative work even though she did financially support him for a few years! He said she was not sexually attractive as she was too independent and made him feel not needed. He also massively blames her for the abortion years ago which She wanted and he didn’t, and he said the incident has affected his career, his mental health, his attitude to sex, ever since. It’s like all his issues are someone else’s fault. And now I feel like our “issues” (not communicating enough, not progressing quick enough) are my fault.
it feels good to get this all out.

@orsina

And also, I don’t get why she doesn’t want to move on from a man who is seeing another woman. If i were in this situation even if I still loved the man I would probably go Nc or set boundaries to move on. And clearly she’s not moving on if she needs help from
him in therapy. I actually feel for her a lot and wish I had more empathy for her before.

Do you not read this back and see the irony here? You are questioning why she doesn’t want to move on from a man who is seeing another woman. Yet she has been in his life for over 20 years, she’s still married to him, they still have an emotional connection and he is still invested/ reliant on her. She has much more investment in him than you. So the question you need be asking is why don’t YOU want to move on from a man who hasn’t moved on from another woman? Why haven’t YOU set boundaries, and gone no contact with him? Why do YOU want to share him with another woman? It’s unbelievable you think she should have moved on / set boundaries after 20 years with him when you haven’t been together that long yet you won’t do that 🤦🏼‍♀️

I’ve only read your posts OP but it sounds like he is controlling and manipulative. And that’s why it’s so hard for you to leave. Partners with manipulative tendencies slowly chip away at your self esteem and ability to think logically and have you normalising everything.

Please leave him and don’t be coerced into taking him back.

@Datingahhhhhhhh he has repeatedly told me since I met him that they were mutually agreed to the separation and the marriage was over and even that she was happy for him. why would I think that she wanted to be back with him if he is living apart some distance, has introduced me to almost all his family, and she didn’t put up a fight for their marriage according to him. That’s why it’s all confusing.

Agree.

His wife is still his primary partner and you have been on a test drive, whilst at the same time shelving his wife in the devaluing game. Does she even know you exist ?

You really don't want to be tied to this man, send him away and concentrate on your daughter, can I ask is he very attractive ?

If you can't cope with this man after 9 months imagine how his wife managed 20 years, I think she's stronger than what you think op, living with a narc is nuclear confusion, I don't think you know what you're getting yourself into, you may very well have thought you were in control in the beggining, maybe you were the ow, but he's soon flipped that and you're now a blithering wreck.

It was too easy for him, they love a game and it looks like it's going to be wrapped up soon. Let him go, you've had a narrow escape because if he really wanted you, he would have got you, there wouldn't have been such negativity at such an early stage, you are being discarded.

So what @RandomForest this was some kind of a test I failed? All sounds very sinister. I can accept if he doesn’t feel the same way about me any more or if he has found he misses his wife or is having second thoughts about leaving (although he maintains strenuously that he wants me and that he doesn’t want to be back with her) but the idea of this being some ‘game’ …. For what?

RED FLAG,
Get this sorted ASAP. It’s inappropriate, you have unfortunately let this go on way too long. Il be honest I think he needs to let go. I understand years and years with someone but if you’re not together and not getting back together it’s disrespectful to new partners to be like this. Americans always say unless they’re divorced they’re not single. He can’t keep being a comfort to her and being with you as-well. Sorry but you don’t have time for this. Can I also just comment that she will try it on again with him… even knowing about you. (She’s his wife knows all of him, who are you?!?) his now a challenge to win back female pride. I’m not saying anything would happen but why put himself in a situation where it Could happen… it will never end. The dog will die, her parents will get sick or come and stay and ask if they meet up for old time sake catch up. I can see it all now. You don’t need this he needs a ultimatum.

I will say I looked up the idealise-devalue-discard cycle and I think he has put me through this a few times though he always returns to the idealise phase (last time he turned up with a huge bunch of flowers, a first). He devalues me when I have displeased such asserting my boundaries on things like communication or the speed of our relationship. He has actually dumped me once before, other times he has just said we should stop having sex for a while, or he has said he isn’t sure if we are ‘healthy’ or compatible. But then he will backtrack. He says it’s because the complexity of his situation makes this all harder and that he is scared of his feelings for me. Wow that sounds so stupid written down. The amount of times he’s said he’s ‘scared of how much he loves me’. What does that even mean!

Thanks @EMUKE that was something I needed to hear. I agree. Either they are not together or they are. If it’s ambiguous then they need to be honest with other potential partners. I do feel like I’ve been on a test drive. Which is so shit.

So his wife was terrible, cheated on him etc etc, and yet...

Personally, any bloke who even mentioned 'masculine and feminine energy' and wanted me to instantly answer the phone each and every time he phoned, to make him feel 'wanted', would be lucky to get a sentence out of me because I'd be laughing hysterically at him all the time.

OP, he's a twat. You can reason to yourself that he loves you and you love him, but he is a complete and utter tosspot. All that wanting to be introduced to your DD, not on YOUR timetable (ie, her mother), but on HIS, because he needs to fell wanted and included.

Twat.

He’s text book that’s for sure

Are you 100% sure that she knows about you ?

Maybe she hasn't got a clue.

Remember if he wants out he will never take the blame, he will make it look like you didn't love him enough and therefore he had to go, he is the one making sacrifices because he loved you, you just didn't love him back enough.

Can you see where this is going, he will never be the bad guy, not ever. Doesn't matter what you do or say, he's realised your fuel is not enough, it doesn't serve him or quench him enough so he will place you into a secondry possition (not that you were primary for long).

He won't like to part on bad terms as you maybe useful at a later date.

These people use.

When I got divorced I was in a mess emotionally after a loveless sexless marriage. I was vulnerable and had a few relationships with childless men and every one of them displayed behaviour like this guy.
arrogant, spoiled, manipulative, narcissistic, passive aggressive, twisty, playing me off against other women, abusive, dishonest, gaslighting, sexually abusive etc.
much of it was very subtle, one was very hard to fathom because we’d been very good friends for decades prior to getting together .
Any man who is still that level of embroiled with their ex AND no children involved sounds like a selfish and sadistic person.
his comments ref therapy, you not getting to the phone quick enough etc are all about controlling you.
throw him back into the sea and get a better one before he fucks with your head even more