Aibu- His ex wants him to go to couples therapy

[orsina]

I’ve been dating someone for 9 months. He left his partner shortly before we met. They were married, together 20 years but have no kids. Things have moved fairly quickly as we are late 30s and serious about each other and the same things, and he moved 300 miles down to where I live a couple of months ago so we could be together properly (albeit he has his own place and I have mine.) He hasn’t filed for divorce yet but where we live, his health insurance covered by his wife’s employer is good and he is between jobs right now, and the tax benefits are much better for married. I’m trying to be understanding as I know separations are tough, and I didn’t even mind they are amicable, she still talks to his mum who is going through cancer treatment etc as she’s known her forever, and he went back up to help her when their joint dog was sick which I thought was fair as he loves that dog. She sent him down a Xmas present. But she does know about me - I have iron proof of that. And I know he loves me, we have said it etc.

however. Today he told me that she has asked him to go to couples therapy with her, supposedly not for reconciliation but to help her move on from some things in their marriage. He is very caring about everyone and has considered it as he thinks it’ll help her move on. For me though, I was pretty shocked. This is not something I’ve heard of for couples who don’t have dc they are trying to have an amicable divorce for, or for couples who aren’t looking to reconcile. He doesn’t think it’s odd she asked, or disrespectful to us that he is considering it. They are both in individual therapy anyway. Part of me think if she was dating herself no way would she ask this of him.

Aibu about this? Would you have therapy with an ex you didn’t want to get back with who you didn’t have dc with or any other ties to, especially if you are in a new established relationship? I’m embarrassed to say I got a little upset today when he told me. No moves made to file for divorce although in his state no fault divorce only takes 2 months. Them having therapy when they’re not even officially divorcing makes me feel insecure.

Use for what though? Why isn’t a naturally evolving relationship with someone who genuinely cares about you enough, after less than a year? It’s like he wanted to go from 20+ yr live-in relationship to serious live-in relationship with added kid/s (which is something his ex didn’t want. He has talked about me getting pregnant and how he really wants to be a dad.) but in the space of 9 months. How could I have ever met that?

No, I would not have therapy with an ex. I’d assume I’d have to get over it via the hard knocks way, you know? Your partner sounds gullible or is playing the fool. Protect yourself here, OP. I sense you’ll be back at square one…

So his wife wasn’t there for him emotionally in their marriage but she is also totally there for him emotionally now, (and you are not)?

come on!11 his stories and statements aren’t even vaguely believable. He contradicts himself constantly. He say it again - he’s not even trying to be clever with you.

op, the best thing you have done is not let him meet your dd. Well done. Now end this and move on and perhaps look at therapy. You had a terrible abusive ex and you have fallen very quickly into a new abusive relationship. It’s not your fault, but the more you can learn about why you find it so hard to spot the signs, the less likely you are to be caught again.

This.

Loads of women spend their whole lives waiting for one particular man to choose them or for him to come back.
you are confused and don’t know where you stand now or in the future . People like him , and his wife thrive on you being weakened by worry and confusion.
let them sort out their dysfunctional shit and run away as far as you can.
you do the no contact and don’t let him distract you from your real life.
hes a knob.

Okay, then proceed with your little love triangle

Everyone is telling you this has red flags and you just ignore it. Why ask for advice? Your partner is very much still enmeshed with his ‘ex wife’ whom he’s still married to. Don’t dilute yourself! Smell the damn roses. Wake up. And as pps have said, health insurance is not a good enough reason 🙄

gosh, men really are good at fiddling gullible women!!! 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😐

Re “use for what” OP, this type of person, which it’s becoming more clear that he may be with every post you make, just wants control.
they want power and control. They have a sense of entitlement. They NEED other people - you’ll not catch him alone, healing or figuring himself out - they need others, and the stronger and more confident the woman is, the better - because their self esteem (such as it is) comes from gaining power over someone. Total control.

think of him as a hunter, and you’re the beautiful wild unicorn or dragon or something. If he can get you in a cage and slowly convince you that you have no magic, you have no horn, you have no wings, you have no fire, he’ll have gained power , and he can see himself as stronger and “better” than this incredible being he caught.

but then he’ll give you hell for being weak, even though he’s the one who wanted you to become that way.

he may even take space from you or take a “break” or separate and go date someone else - and pit you two against each other, so you’re both focused on feeling jealous or threatened, and he then looks like some kind of prize the other person wins by behaving correctly In his eyes -

but then as you go to therapy and whatnot, or just get space and begin to heal, he’ll want to go through the process of catching you again and removing your wings and your fire, so he can reaffirm to himself that he’s still the powerful strong one.

it’s completely fucked up, and I hope you get TOTALLY free - not just for your own life and time that would be wasted in this trap, but also so your teenage kid doesn’t learn that this is normal.

Geez, just dump him. It's too much baggage. There's got to be men nearer, and probably younger, than him, who don't come with this level of crap. Raise your bar, talking multiple times a week, when there are no DC's should be unacceptable, it just all shows they are too emotionally entwined. He's too controlling too and it sounds like he lovebombed you at the start, pushing too much too soon is a bad idea.

It jsut seems so clear to me now which is so ridiculous after all these months. Why didn’t he put energy into finalising his separation and starting/completing divorce before pursuing a serious relationship with someone else? Those things take emotional energy. If his marriage was over, then end it. I should have said that I would be interested if and when he got divorced. The fact I didn’t showed him my standards were low. And for nigh on a year he was able to dip his toe in another relationship while keeping things basically static with the ex. No divorce or even legal separation. Continued contact and emotional support on both sides. The Financial benefits of being married here.

I feel like I have been so stupid and taken for a complete ride.

OP every poster on here has told you to end it with this man. He sounds like a controlling arse hole, who says really horrible things about his ex, the same things by the way, that he will say about you in the not too distant future.

The choice is yours, a clean break now and get on with living your best life, or, carry on wading through mud with this weirdo until he breaks you.

If you decide to stay with him, good luck, you’re going to need it.

I've been in the position and it's soul destroying.

Exact same scenario - no kids, one dog.

Unless he cuts ties to a more normal communication pattern - such as not calling her 3 times a week and using her as an emotional crutch when things go bad (like when his mum was sick) then this will tear you apart.

Looking back I wish I'd set my stance at the beginning. If he wants a future with you it's time to get divorced and start treating the ex like an ex. Tell him how uncomfortable you feel and see what it does about it. This will tell you all you need to know.

Your feelings are totally justified.

OP I get that you're working things through in your mind now. Several people are getting a bit frustrated and hectoring about why you haven't immediately agreed to dump him and I really hope you do but it's a process and please use this thread as a tool to work it out.

what you said about the abortion is chilling. He's been punishing her for 20 years for having a boundary and making a decision about her own life. That's horrific. You also keep asking WHY would he behave like this, and why couldn't he just do XYZ like a normal person. He's not. He's a narcissist and he uses people. He's using you and using her, separately and together (playing each off against each other/triangulating). Do some reading about narcissists in relationships because I am 99% that's what you've got on your hands.

He says reliability is key in a partner and that people you love should always pick up the phone to you
These are two different things though. To you, does reliability mean always picking up the phone? Or is reliability something different? For you, perhaps a reliable man is someone who would not behave in erratic ways, or leave you feeling anxious due to a weekend away. He is extremely unreliable.

However it's quite convenient for him if he can give his unreasonable demands of you a virtuous name, isn't it? Do you see what he's done (on numerous occasions here):
Made an extremely unreasonable and/or controlling demand
Labelled this demand with a positive name eg reliability, prioritisation, love
Compared your behaviour with respect to this positive name unfavourably with others eg family, friends, his wife
Withheld something as a result of your not complying with his controlling/unreasonable expectation labelled with the positive name
As a result you feel bad/negative about yourself, and strive to be more "positive word" by following his requirements, which in reality are nothing like behaving in the positive way he's calling his demands.

This is what people mean when they say he is highly manipulative. And the upside is this keeps you so confused trying to please him you don't have headspace to question what on earth you're getting out of this relationship.

He is really, really not a good man.

If you take a step back, can you think about what his truly good qualities are that bring positivity to your life? Why are you with him today, or is it the hope that things will get good one day?

Even without the wife he's emotionally abusive and controlling.

Boot him out.

Exactly. It’s bizarre OP doesn’t see the irony.
She should listen to her own advice.

I once dated a guy who was recently divorced. Not separated, but legally divorced. Within months I realised he was still in contact with his ex - and they had no kids. He would mention her sometimes to me and despite saying it was completely over it was evident they were still emotionally invested in each other.

Although they were divorced they had 11 years of history before divorce and I had 3 months of history with him so it was a no-brainer that for my own sake I should end it.
I found it weird that they still were on each other lives to that extent, but I accepted it was up to them to figure out how to move on rather than for me to urge him or his ex to move on. I decided I wasn’t going to be dragged along in that journey though and bowed out quickly because I have self respect and will not tolerate being with a man who is clearly still heavily emotionally attached to his long term “ex” partner.

And Op, yes I’ve heard of people dating while married but that’s not a situation I’d ever be or have been involved in. I wouldn’t ever give a legally married man the time of day. It’s just needlessly messy.

He is controlling and not the man for you - he's coasting along with 2 women until one of them makes the decision to end it and he stays with his backup.

It jsut seems so clear to me now which is so ridiculous after all these months. Why didn’t he put energy into finalising his separation and starting/completing divorce before pursuing a serious relationship with someone else? Those things take emotional energy. If his marriage was over, then end it. I should have said that I would be interested if and when he got divorced

I didn’t see this update before I posted my last message. I’m glad it seems to be sinking in now OP.

Look inward rather than focusing on his ex’s behaviour. We’ve all made decisions we regret and can use them to help us do better next time.

That’s a good rule moving forward - don’t even give married men a chance to drag their feet and waste your time.

My uncle is still married to his wife (whom he married in the 60s) and they separated in 1993

These two are still technically in a relationship. She most definitely wants him back hence the communication about the family pet and the suggestion of couples counselling.
This isn't the right time to be pursuing a relationship with this man. Too complex. this scenario will drag on for years.

OP don't be too hard on yourself, many of us have allowed ourselves to believe what we wanted to hear in these sorts of situations, and hung on when with hindsight, we can see ww were being blatantly fooled. I know I have.

You have learned a lot, build on this learning to protect you and your daughter from this kind of bullshit in future.

But when you do dump him, please be careful. Chances are he may become extremely nasty, and really try to mess with your head to convince you black is white and you can't possibly mean what you say etc. You might want to dump him either by phone or in a public place in case he becomes aggressive.

OP, even ignoring his wife and their relationship, if you e on,y been together 9 months and you have had multiple big arguments does this sound like a partnership worth pursuing? The way he demands your attention instantly regardless of whether it's convenient for you, and is pressing you to introduce your daughter when you aren't ready doesn't sound like someone who is thoughtful or considerate of your feelings. Just assessing this relationship in isolation from his wife he isn't demonstrating any care for you, just expecting you to be there for him. Sorry, he's not worth it.

OP, you said that according to him, he calls her because she always answers the phone.

What if the reason she is always available for him it's because she knows if she doesn't, there will be hell to pay?
She was married to him for years, she knows how he is. It's possible that she dealt with the same behaviours you are dealing with. He trained her to always answer the phone, the way he is now "training" you. You know the consequences if you miss a call, so now you are forcing yourself to either answer phone calls promptly or try to call him first.

Maybe the reasons she is not moving on are similar to the reasons YOU seem unable to end this relationship. A relationship that on the outside looks so unhealthy. Maybe the ex is stuck, the same way you are.

He seems like a toxic individual driving his partners mad. Get out now and protect your DD. She doesn't need a man like that in her life. If you can't do it for you, then do it for your daughter. She needs a healthy and happy mum. This man is misery.

Today has been really hard. He has completely cooled towards me. Just a week ago he was trying to talk me round from an argument he caused, bringing me surprise flowers etc. Now since the conversation the other day, he isn’t contacting me which is unheard of and so I realise I am maybe being discarded. Maybe even forever. I am walking around feeling like I have a pit in my stomach, feeling so guilty because I flipped when he said the thing about having couples therapy with his ex (in his own words, saying that to ‘upset’ and ‘hurt’ me). I wish I hadn’t risen to it as now he has painted me as some kind of abuser who can’t be a good partner or mother. Even though he tried to get to me by saying it, he said he was so ‘dumbstruck’ by me getting angry and that he feels if that’s how I deal with conflict,‘I would do it in front of any kids we have. My head feels fried from that kind of accusation/mental leap. But also part of my mind wants to make it better and ensure things are ok. Even though I know he isn’t a good guy. I feel like I’m in withdrawal or something.

Conflict? He’s just told you he’s having couples counselling with wife. And he expected what response from you? Of course you were angry, it’s a natural response. You understandably feel threatened, the counselling indicates he is still connected to her on an emotional level. Do not run after him Op. I’m sure he has loads of lovely qualities, which is making this situation harder for you. But regularly ringing his ex wife and going for counselling = not fully in a relationship with you.

Yes, you are in withdrawal. Have you looked up anything about trauma bonding OP?

The only thing that solves this is getting him out of your life. It is not normal, or healthy, to be feeling the way you are feeling about a disagreement in a healthy, loving relationship. Your body feels anxious, worried because it is telling you to get yourself out of this situation. Please listen to your body OP.