Is this the script? Handhold please

[Whatachliche]

I can't believe I'm typing this - after 25 years my HB wants to move out.

When he left for a recent work trip, we were both set to work on our relationship with a therapist. after his return, he has a new gym routine, bought new underwear and has decided he is not feeling emotionally connected to me anymore and he is too 'confused' to know what he wants.

This is the f* script right?

there have been struggles like loss and illness and an unhealthy communication style from his side but we just started couples therapy to work on our relationship and turn things around. now this.

Do I entertain his quest for space or do I believe the signs of the script and just start divorce? I don't want to look through his phone, I think I can't deal with the truth. I rather walk away without knowing if that makes sense, or is that just the fear of no point of return?

Yeah, I agree - don't put it in writing. You could also tell him you won't let anyone treat you as badly in future. When you've said your piece, wish him all the best. He sure as hell won't be big enough to do that for you so you'll have (another) moral upper hand.

I so feel for you OP -

Another here saying not to put it in writing. Best just to say it. Once it’s written down, it takes on a life of its own and he might find ways of using the communication against OP. He may complain that it’s harassment. He may edit it and share the doctored version with other people. Safest just to say it - especially if you’re dealing with someone vengeful and cruel.

Great news on your flat, OP.

And yep I would get immense satisfaction from them knowing that I knew all along whether it mattered anymore or not. Like you my focus would have been on getting the best for me going forward. The absolute cheek of pretending there's no animosity and telling you that it's not as if theirs affairs or anything and yep I would be that person sending his OW post settlement details of OW2 and 3 at same time as her- bet that will be a suprise!!

I would be sharing loud and wide VERBALLY that you have known about his behaviour for "ages" but you wanted a fair settlement and got exactly what you wanted.

If you see him in person do your best acting to appear smug. So glad you're off my hands and someone else's problem now.

I would be doing what was said here, although I don't think we are vindictive just merely doing a community service letting all the OW know the truth of what he's like. But I'd throw in a last casual phone call to his mum/ family member too that you got on with and slip in that you're glad it's all over but it would have been easier if he had been upfront instead of conducting affairs etc, doubt he's told his family the full picture and I couldn't leave things without them knowing the truth. You don't need to give full details but just make the real timeline clear. I wouldn't confront him at all, just drop the info to everyone else so they know how things really went down. Maybe I am vindictive 😂

Are you divorced now? Do you have the decree absolute and clean break?

At the risk of banging on about the same thing ... please do not confront him about anything until you have these. He may decide to punish you by reneging on agreements somehow - even if the property is now in your name.

The written word lives forever. If @Whatachliche sends a letter/email it will be shown around to all and sundry. Yes, I know the words will be true, that he is a cheat and a liar, but that doesn't mean he won't spin those words in the worst possible way to justify his behaviour, and some people will believe his spin. He'll use it to assassinate her character. I've seen it in real life. And unfortunately, some people will accept his 'version'. These days, many people are inclined to let cheating 'go' in order to keep or 'not make waves' in a friendship or family. How many threads have we seen where the cheat and his latest 'dolly' are welcomed into a friendship group or the latest family party?

Speaking also gives 'plausible deniability'. You can't deny the written word, no matter how well it's written. She can be as vituperative as she pleases face to face, but do the wide eyed innocence to others; "He said I said what?" with a shake of the head.

It's up to @Whatachliche of course, and it may be that she truly needs to put it in writing for her own peace of mind and possibly there will be no ramifications. I guess I just prefer to say such things quietly and in private.

Great news OP! You’ve been amazing throughout. 💐

Agree with PP not to write anything down to him.

Also, to be honest, he will likely know that you know by now. And he will just reply with ‘I know you know. I know you went on my phone. I wanted you to know. Who’s the clever one now?’

I maintain that silent indifference and a live lived well without him is the best revenge. And if any mutuals want to know if you know, you can say ‘Oh yes I’ve known about OW1,2 and 2 for ages! He’s not as clever as he thinks he is’ etc.

If it gets back to him by word of mouth he doesn’t get the satisfaction of an angry rant from you (showing you care) and he doesn’t get to be spiteful in return.

I always think the biggest slight to anyone in any situation, including this one, is to say absolutely nothing. Any words, whether they're smart ones, gotcha ones, upset ones etc, show that you've invested some of your time in composing text. Silence is golden and they will forever wonder if and what you know. It's a very powerful weapon. Nothing is more hurtful than denying someone an acknowledgement.

I would also do this. Fuck him.

I strongly suspect you are still wavering about him because you've had to keep this cognitive dissonance going on for so long, pretending you don't know. Hopefully once you tell him you know all that residual sadness and worry will melt away.

You’ve been amazing throughout, so proud of you x

Well done. You've done a grand job. You've been very controlled and have kept your head and your home.

Do not soil yourself by rolling round in the mud with this pig of a man by confronting him.

I've just RTFT and want to say how incredibly inspirational you are. You have gone through such a traumatic time and held your head high throughout.
I hope you find every happiness and I hope his life is miserable.

I had to do it, it has been waiting to burst out for the longest time.
The anti climax of it is enormous, he simply refuses to admit to anything, the proof is being spun into tales of friendship and 'fake news'

the one thing that gave me a lot of information though - he lied instantly, smoothly and with some 'concerned warmth'. the lies come naturally and effortlessly, I could never deliver a non truth as smoothly.

i didn't get my gotcha-moment, but a reminder if his absolute ruthlessness and ability to lie

Sorry it was an anticlimax but be happy you are well rid of the fucker. Onwards and upwards you legend x

I wonder what would happen if you sent a message to the ow and her husband saying can you please divorce and collect my husband please. He won't leave until he knows you're also getting divorced

What a piece of work he truly is. I’m so glad that you have escaped him as it sounds like whoever he inflicts himself on will forever be subjected to these smooth effortless lies.

I'm so sorry it feels like an anticlimax for you, remember the fact that you told him that you’ve known the truth all along, has shown him the reality is that he actually ISNT the cleverest one who got away with it all and controlled everything. You chose so much about the way this has gone with your incredible level headedness and superhuman levels of self control and I hope you can look back and feel pride in yourself for how you’ve behaved throughout an horrific time.

What did he say OP? How did he explain away the proof you have?

He sounds like a sociopath - he knows you know he's lying but he doesn't actually care, even when you present him with proof he'll deny, deny, deny. People like him are actually incapable of telling the truth and their image is everything to them.

They're sick.

Your gotcha moment and the best form of revenge is always success. Look at the beautiful life you have made for yourself. You have handled this entire situation with grace and elegance. He is a human worm and has proven it again today. Onwards and upwards @Whatachliche ❤️💫

Yep ⬆️

And you achieved your aim whatacliche - you got to keep your lovely flat!

Did you tell him that was your plan all along?

he was categorically denying everything, to a degree I suddenly felt the whole thing is so sinister - I got a strong feeling of I just need to end this conversation.

He was blocking all facts so vehemently that I realised that either I am / my life is not real, or he is lying to a pathological level that scares me.

the whole experience was bizarre, but not surprising. Deep down I knew this outcome is a possibility, hence why I haven't confronted before. Having your reality completely disputed by someone you think is/ was on your side is totally disorienting.

This moment felt like a summary of our relationship, I know he has been gas lighting me a lot and there was so much subtle manipulation and I never realised the severity of it.

For a long time I thought his affair is the most awful thing he did to me, but it isn't. It is the years of bending reality, lying about big and small things, confusing me, goading me into reacting, withholding information, denying reality - the list is long. For some reason I didn't see all of this, only the many books and podcasts I consumed to understand his affairs educated me into seeing what was really happening.

I now understand the psychological mechanics on paper. My heart still doesn't understand how someone I thought loved me so much can do this to me. I know this is called cognitive dissonance, I know how to work through it, but I'm not sure if I ever fully will.

Oh I really feel for you OP, it feels impossible to believe for a very long time, it’s because we think other people are like us, honest, faithful and caring deep down and some are not. You are judging him by your standards of integrity. If you are like me you just can’t get your head around how someone could ever behave like this.
The hardest part for me was accepting that he never loved me and I could have been anyone really. Once I did accept that fact though all the angst completely disappeared and turned to repulsion, I have to see him every day because of the new divorce process and he doesn’t affect me one iota 😁
The good news is, yes you will accept it eventually and see him for exactly what he is. If you have ever listened the Phantom of the Opera there is a line in one of the songs that says
‘The tears I might have shed for your dark fate… grow cold and turn to tears of hate’

and that’s it in a nutshell really, it will come, in the meantime give all the love and effort you spent on him to yourself 💕

Your ‘gotcha’ moment really was a gotcha moment - but of a different kind. Instead of shaming him, it revealed himself to be exactly who you couldn’t quite believe he was - a pathological monstrous deceitful liar. You proved yourself right to yourself - hang on to that.

Oh I really feel for you OP, it feels impossible to believe for a very long time, it’s because we think other people are like us, honest, faithful and caring deep down and some are not. You are judging him by your standards of integrity. If you are like me you just can’t get your head around how someone could ever behave like this.

So true. I'm a year on from a short relationship with a textbook covert narcissist and I still have moments of...just...WT actual F??

Remembering outrageous lies he told me with a completely innocent look on his face,

I think the awful part is how it makes you doubt yourself and feel like you're not the strong, intelligent person you thought you were to be taken in by them but that's being unfair to ourselves as why on earth would you think someone who is so lovely and is telling you they love you day to day is actually lying through their teeth and living a double life? We can't comprehend it as it's such sick behaviour. It's like trying to understand how a murderer could actually go through with killing an innocent person.

They are like scammers and charlatans. I truly believe their soul is an empty dark pit that they're always trying to fill.

Now you've sorted everything you can start to properly move on Op but I wouldn't have anything to do with him from here on in as it'll disturb the healing process. Only time will heal what he's done to you. But you will get there I promise.