Is this the script? Handhold please

[Whatachliche]

I can't believe I'm typing this - after 25 years my HB wants to move out.

When he left for a recent work trip, we were both set to work on our relationship with a therapist. after his return, he has a new gym routine, bought new underwear and has decided he is not feeling emotionally connected to me anymore and he is too 'confused' to know what he wants.

This is the f* script right?

there have been struggles like loss and illness and an unhealthy communication style from his side but we just started couples therapy to work on our relationship and turn things around. now this.

Do I entertain his quest for space or do I believe the signs of the script and just start divorce? I don't want to look through his phone, I think I can't deal with the truth. I rather walk away without knowing if that makes sense, or is that just the fear of no point of return?

yes. agree. I might still write the email at a later stage but reveal everything in a different order, starting with OWs husband.

I have to agree that letting the poison drip via the OW's husband and then her could be more effective at destroying his "I am clever and important and indestructible" self image than the email I suggested.

The idea that you dont even care enough to take him down in person will destroy him.

To a man like that, revenge is hot and sharp and personal. To him revenge is something that the other person has to know was done by him. Directly. Preferably to their face, to see them crumble. Like he acted to you when you were in pieces. He got joy from seeing you fall apart. It was further cement to the indestructible fortress of his ego.

The fact that you played the longest of long games, even after you won, will fuck with his brain. The further fact that the only person you cared about enough to contact after you had won was OW husband, will screw him up even more.

But I am petty so I would contact the OW husband, wait a few weeks and THEN send the email I wrote above. But as an embittered cheated on abused woman in her 50's who has never had the chance to say my piece, I accept that I am biased in my advice!

I agree with this.

I would make sure he knows I knew. But indirectly via mutual friends and maybe OW husband. I’m a bit torn about the OW husband though.

To leave him thinking you CBA to confront him all those weeks, that you didn’t even seem to care or be angry and just said nothing. Super satisfying.

Agreed. Write an email but don't send it.

Let the OW H know whatever you want your ex to know you know. Say nothing directly to the ex.

Much, much more powerful move.

I'm so glad that you are reaching a closure point op. Please don't do anything though until the divorce and especially a 'clean break' has been signed and sealed (not just the agreement about your property/finances). I would hate for him to be able to come back to renege on any agreement because he is wanting to punish you!

With regard to telling him that you have known about his affairs all along, I fear that you will not get the reaction you want if you approach him directly. He is a narcissist after all. He will likely turn it all on you. Much better to tell others (and affair partner's husband). Although again, not sure about a phone call for this. Maybe an initial email with your contact information so he can digest the information first.

Best of luck with whatever you decide

Can you print off the messages & send them to the OW's husband so he has proof ?
I'd also consider printing them off and slapping them up places like her work, the local library etc.

@Whatachliche

I'm sure I've said it before, but do nothing until the divorce is signed, sealed, and delivered.

An interesting idea to simply tell OW's husband and let the chips fall where they may. The only 'discomfort' I have with this is that it (unintentionally) makes him your 'instrument of revenge'. I know you were going to tell him anyway because, and I agree, that he does deserve to know. But somehow it 'feels' different to me doing it with the intent that it blows up in STBX's face. Plus, you don't really know what will happen. He may be the kind to process slowly and/or who would rather keep the marriage and so say nothing.

Your decision, of course. I just think that when it comes to an innocent party, motive matters.

You have every right to be petty after being cheated on and abused. We wouldn’t have a legal system, if, we as a society didn’t believe that actions have consequences, and only too often cheating men get away without any justice. My ex spend an eye watering amount of shared money on his affairs, money I will never get back, and the suggestion that me 'living my best life’ will be his punishment is frankly depressing. If this wasn’t a marriage but a company I’d sue him for fraud and theft of funds! but its ‚fine’ because it was a marriage. so yes, I do think revenge is in order and actually a service to our society :)

Yes, absolutely will wait till all done and dusted, house in my name, he off the deeds and mortgage. It all needs to be watertight.

I fear you and other pp who said this are correct, a confrontation will never be the 'gottcha' moment I want, this is the main reason I didn't confront him in the first place.
He just turned so cold towards me.

Your thought about giving the OWs husband some time to digest via text or email before we might talk, is actually really good, it gives him privacy to digest the unpleasantness of the horrible information I will have to share. I'll do that.

I've decided to stay away from any social media or any sort of big public shaming. It feels a bit messy and erratic ... but I have prepped a very short 2 sentence summary of the situation for the neighbours and friends and associates who might ask about him in the future. I'll never hide what really happened, I'm not protecting his dirty secrets out of shame. so the truth will hit him now and then when he runs jnto people.

I so agree to only make any moves once everything is legally and financially secure.

For sharing the truth with OWHB, for OWHB my motives don't matter. the truth matters and his right to know what he has been subjected to matters. he can then make his own decisions. If he doesn't do anything with the information, that is also ok.

I will make sure to share the information in a way that isn't inflammatory. Written information first, with the offer to talk if wanted, with enough information to leave it there. I will not do it anonymously, I have nothing to hide. I really don't want misery for him, but I will give him what I have been denied for over a year before finding out: the truth.
I truly do believe the betrayed person needs some facts for closure.

I've followed your journey OP and you are just phenomenal. You've done amazingly well to keep your powder dry to get the best outcome.

I do wonder about telling the OW's husband though - mainly because I'm vindictive. If he knows, they may split, pushing the cheating couple into each other's arms. If he doesn't know, the affair may peter out, leaving your ex on his own - which is exactly what he deserves. It could be that taking no action is the greatest action of all?

I would also make sure that everyone knows that he had an affair with three women consecutively. Information conveyed succinctly and without any bitterness, just factual information that's delivered briskly. That kind of shit sticks to a person's reputation, and I think you said that your ex prides himself on being seen as some kind of upstanding individual? The truth would wound him deeply and quite frankly he bloody deserves that after the way he's treated you.

Re confronting him via email yourself, I think I would probably let him know that I know. But briefly, and unemotionally. I think your ex will probably think you were too weak or too scared to confront him if you don't say anything, I don't think it's the power play that you might want it to be. I think I'd be inclined to send him a final email along the lines of "Now our divorce has been finalised, there is no further need for us to have any contact. As a final disclosure, it might be interesting for you to note that I've been well aware of your 2-year affair with Pam, as well as your affairs with Betty and Edna, despite your repeated denials. I will be blocking you on every channel, please don't ever contact me again."

Brief, to the point, and factual - he's not worth anything more. It puts you in control of the narrative, shows that you've been in control all along, and dismisses him. He'd be seething!!

Pros and cons to every different approach - I wish you every happiness. I would love to hear your updates, I feel sure in years to come you'll see this as a watershed year in your life when you got rid of a dead weight and started on a path to true happiness 💐

It's pretty clear from your words that you're informing him from the 'right place' and that you want OWDH to know the truth in the kindest way possible. I do believe motive matters, and I'm sorry to have imputed in you a motive you did not have.

It's a difficult situation, I'm sure. And I agree, not anonymously is the way to go.

I've just read your thread - you come across as intelligent, capable and witty, and you deserve so much better than the shit that your lying H has put you through. I think it should be a criminal offence to do the things he has done, but it's great to read that you are coming through it all with new strength and purpose. I hope that you have a wonderful life ahead of you.

So nearly there...

Eagles and rabbits. The enduring metaphor.

I keep thinking also of The Gruffalo. When the [DH] snake thinks he has the meek little mouse right where he wants it but the cunning and clever mouse is always one step ahead. And then you get the truly great image of humbled scrambled snake in a bowl...

OP if you haven't read the book, it is worth having a quick look...

OWHB must be told somehow, because he needs to visit a sexual health clinic for tests.

"and away snake slid" - perfect

How are things @Whatachliche?

Hey @TheShellBeach thank you for checking in. I'm so very close to having him bought out of the flat. legal proceedings still with solicitors...I'm doing so much better. I'm happy. I didn't think I'd be able to feel that good again, but I do. I'm focusing on my wonderful friends and my career. funny how work feels so much easier now he is out of my life. I always thought he is my rock, but since he is gone I feel so much less doubt about a lot of things. I think I pretty much studied everything there is to know about covert narcissists, and know this term gets thrown around a lot and we shouldn't diagnose...but he ticks so many boxes.
I think I was in a trauma bond fog for the longest time.
I'm not dating or seeing anyone. Last time I was dating I was early 20s and it was fun and easy. now it seems quite depressing, so I'm gonna skip that. I'm too busy organising a divorce party for my friends who did walk this painful path with me, and those who offered patio related digging services.

“patio related digging services”
must remember that😁

hang in there op
let us know when nightmare’s over and a new dream begins

...........................organising a divorce party for my friends who did walk this painful path with me, and those who offered patio related digging services

🤣🤣🤣

I really hope it's signed off before NYD

I remember being on a thread and is having to explain the patio references to a non-UK person on the thread 🤣

I woke up today with a temperature and had such a realistic fever dream. in my dream we were still together, nothing unusual happened in the dream, just everyday moments with him. When I woke up I was quite confused whats real and what isn't. it took me a while to fast forward to the 'now' and it felt like I went through all the grief and shock again. This felt quite bizarre and shows me how much hurt is still 'cooking' in my subconscious. I have a list of moments to remind myself of situations he behaved abusive, so reading this helps to snap out of it. WTF happened to my life?

You suffered a great trauma in your life @Whatachliche and it’s no wonder you have vivid dreams/ flashbacks and triggers which shove you right back to painful memories and events.
Sadly it’s a normal response by your brain designed to remind you what was dangerous to you and protect you from the thing that traumatised you at the time. As you start to heal, it could also be that painful things you didn’t dwell on (for good reasons) at the time can get through now, when you are stronger and process them. Realisations that were too overwhelming to face head on at the time are seeping in now that things face calmed down a bit. Unpleasant but normal, it doesn’t signify anything or mean that the hurt ‘cooking in your subconscious’ (great description, that’s exactly what this is) is going to be there forever. It’s grief, I think, you go through the five stages of it after a huge loss of any kind, it doesn’t have to be a bereavement. Look up the five stages of grief and the way your mind is working might make more sense. I went through it too when my husband had an affair, lots of stuff in the initial shock and trauma got buried and came back later when I was stronger, it totally discombobulated me because I thought I was on the ‘up’ but actually I’d repressed a load of stuff I needed to deal with, my brain shut it away until it decided I could deal with it.
Be kind to yourself, you’ve gone through a great deal with admirable strength but that takes a lot of energy so remember to rest and treat yourself well.

I still sometimes have vivid dreams and ruminate a lot about the covert narc I was in a "relationship" (he was married) with and I was only seeing him for 3 months! He did a real number on me psychologically and it's taken a long time to get over it. They really mess with your head so much - how could someone treat another person like that? I'm GLAD I don't understand it - it's incomprehensible to me to go to that level of deceit and manipulation just to have your cake and eat it. I've only started feeling properly better in the last couple of months and this was last Christmas it happened.

The person you trusted more than anyone, who you thought was your wingman has betrayed you in the most abhorrent way and turned everything on its head that you believed to be real. He has also treated you despicably since telling you it's over and there has STILL months later been no admittance or disclosure by either of you about what has actually been going on here (ie he's been shagging behind your back and lying to you for possibly the duration of your whole relationship).

No one in their right mind would expect you to be "over" this betrayal never mind not still thinking about it/having odd vivid dreams. You have been through a trauma and as a pp said, your brain is adjusting to this and pushing aside traumatic thoughts just to get through each day. If your psyche didn't do this you'd be in a puddle on the floor every day still going over everything.

You are doing great, you're so close to being completely free and throwing your party! I'm one of the posters who couldn't fully understand why you didn't just tell him what you knew and throw him out but I get it now, and the strength of character and willpower you have shown to reach your end goal is amazing.

You are one classy woman.