What makes a "good man" to you?

[LorlieS]

I was just on another thread and poster said her husband was a "good man" because he earned enough for her to stay at home indefinitely.
Personally, I don't agree with this statement.
So, being entirely honest, what are your non-negotiables?

My list:
Kindness
Integrity
Honesty
Respect
A similar sense of humour to my own
Treating me as an equal
Being present for our family and children.

I'm sure there's more but for me, being wealthy doesn't feature.

What point are you making here? Is it that your opinions are right, whilst others' opinions are wrong?

Just stating something doesn’t mean it’s “covered”

Honesty
integrity
self sacrificing
Sensible
grounded
resilient
kind
thoughtful (not presents etc, but actually thinks about things)
Dutiful
Reliable

If I didn’t have that then no amount of money would turn me into a happy wife. I wouldn’t want to be married to a petulant selfish child.

This sounds bonkers to me
The what makes a good man doesn’t need to include wealth

It could be working for Médecins Sans Frontières instead of hedge fund

It doesn’t mean everyone has to want the former but to say they can’t be a good man is nuts

@BlueScrunchies I agree with you on those, too. But not sure about the "masculinity" one (depending on how you're defining it)?
My husband is incredibly far removed from being a "typical Alpha male."
Examples:
*He loves spending time with our little girl and shares childcare (he's currently blow drying her hair and asking her if she wants plaits or a pony)
*He works in a very female-dominated job (adult social care)
*He cried when his cat died (buckets!)
*He wanted to add my last name to his when we married
*His favourite film is genuinely "The Sound of Music."
*He does a lot of the cooking at home.
I love all of this about him!

A name does not hold up the patriarchy.
I don't particularly care about how many women choose to go by Miss, Ms or Mrs.... as it is their choice.
Women have been working since day dot so I don't know where this idea or being in employment is somehow helping things 'move on' as you say.
Genuine activism such as the suffrage movement and changes in legislation is what has created equality.
Throwing yourself in front of a horse because you can't vote? Brave, crazy, noble, making a difference.
Using your own surname because of perceived injustices? Yeah, not really doing much.

My husband was a good man, after he died the adoptive parent of one of our ex-foster children contacted me to say that they would forever be grateful to DH for showing their child that not all men were things to be feared. I never met a single person with a bad thing to say about DH, he was a genuinely nice person.

The money thing is important to me only in terms of someone who has some common sense and doesn’t piss it up the wall. I also like the fact that DH is pretty un-materialistic, never ever stingy (he’s a sucker for DD asking for things) but he just doesn’t care about stuff. It’s very appealing.

@Ribikco So you "have to throw yourself in front of horse" to challenge the patriarchy but "smaller" things don't matter.
Really?!!
It's a good job we don't all share your sexist views and simply accept things how they are.

If you think it sounds bonkers, then you haven't read it right (understandably, it was excessively long!) I'm saying exactly that. To be a good man as in decent man, you don't need to be a high earner. But people are answering what makes a man a good partner, and for some, high earnings are part of it. They're not saying that Geoff who works for a charity on minimum wage and denotes half of his salary back isn't a good man. They saying they wouldn't consider him a good partner for them. Because they want a high earner.

We 'touched on that' than if you prefer. If you would truly like to cover it though, I'd suggest you look it up. The multitude of studies are readily available, though I'm sure we can all agree women are the ones who give birth and breastfeed and none of us need a PhD in biology to know this is a fact.

@5128gap Ah so a "good partner" is a high earner. Because women can't earn themselves?

No you certainly don't need to throw yourself in front of a horse, but that action was a turning point in women's right to vote.
What is sexist about stating the obvious.
Your name choice makes not one jot of difference to anyone other than yourself.

Not at all. Facts are facts and opinions are opinions.

Women do give birth and some of them do breastfeed but that's what maternity leave is largely for. It doesn't stop women from going back to work after maternity leave and certainly doesn't mean that working part time is necessary.

Which leaves societal norms.

And which ones are you saying on this thread? Because if you're stating your opinions, they're no 'righter' than anyone else's, and if they're facts, why are you calling them your opinions?

@Ribikco It absolutely does.
I'll give you an example.
I am know as Miss S at work. A lot of kids have said to me "Are you married?" When I say yes, they then start calling me Mrs S (my mum's name!)
So I correct them, and tell then that we can all go by what ever title we like.
To some of the older girls in particular this has been a bit of a "wow" moment to them in a positive way.
So yes, in my own way I am absolutely challenging the patriarchy and will continue to do so for as long as I teach.

Please show me which part of "they would also presumably do so if they earned well themselves as they wouldn't want the wealth they accrued brought down by a partner who didn't match them" you interpreted as me saying women women want a high earner because they can't earn themselves?
But yes, obviously some people (men as well as women) consider being a good earner to be part of their criteria for what makes a good partner. I'd have thought that was so obvious it barely warranted debate, and if it was in question has been confirmed many times on the thread. Sometimes that will be so they can be wealthier than they could afford on their own earnings, sometimes it may be so they don't have to work at all. Sometimes it will be so they don't have to support a partner who earns less than them.
But, honestly, so what really? You haven't got to marry one of them, and I'm sure the men (or women) they do marry are savvy enough to take care of themselves. What with being six figure earners and all.

You are right it doesn't stop women from going back to work, it just so happens that many women don't want to go back to work having spent time off with their baby. Going back to work is the societal norm, not staying home.

Going back to work full time isn't the societal norm for women. If they go back to work, it is part time because society sees women as the default parent.

That's still part of the issue just as it is that it is almost always women who are SAHP.

Indeed. I haven't suggested my opinions are any more correct or important than anyone else's. I have said I have based some of my opinions on facts that can be backed up by research. Now if someone wants to disagree with any of my opinions that is fine, but if they want to disagree with research then that is what I would call being wilfully ignorant.

@Ribikco

but if they want to disagree with research then that is what I would call being wilfully ignorant

So, if somebody has read different research from the research you're basing your opinions on, or has lived experience of something outside of the research you have personally reviewed, you're saying they're 'wilfully ignorant'?

Oh, go on, give us another of your 'opinion-facts'! It's such good fun!

As well as all the obvious good qualities mentioned above I would have to add great personal hygiene and tidiness.

I never said FT, but it is certainly more common for women to go back to work than it is to stay home. You can look up the stats.
We are literally going in circles here. Biologically it makes more sense for the woman to home after birth, that is why maternity leave is so much longer than paternity..... It just so happens that after having a period of time off, many women don't want to go back to work FT, if at all.
If you wish to demean women by not giving them credit for their own decisions, rather you'd suggest that we are such feeble minded weaklings that we allow ourselves to be bullied into certain roles, then I would argue that you are not all that feminist. Victimhood benefits no one.

It just so happens? Yep, totally a coincidence and nothing to do with sexism.

Like I said before, societal norms influence everyone, not just women. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.