What makes a "good man" to you?

[LorlieS]

I was just on another thread and poster said her husband was a "good man" because he earned enough for her to stay at home indefinitely.
Personally, I don't agree with this statement.
So, being entirely honest, what are your non-negotiables?

My list:
Kindness
Integrity
Honesty
Respect
A similar sense of humour to my own
Treating me as an equal
Being present for our family and children.

I'm sure there's more but for me, being wealthy doesn't feature.

On an individual level, yes, some men will feel pressure. On a societal level the benefits to men as a class are significant and enable them to maintain their position of power and privilege. If that were not the case the model would have been dispensed with long since. The fact that some men who don't succeed within this context are collateral damage doesn't stop it being a system perpetuated by men for the benefit of men.
I dislike the model as much as you do, but targeting a handful of women who have found a way to make it work for them, and holding them responsible for a negative impact on a handful of those who created it, well that isnt feminism to me.

I don’t disagree tbh
i think men should rail against it and women shouldn’t support it (the assumption a man is only valuable if he earns well)

on the flip side the assumption that a woman’s place is in the home should also be railed against by women and not supported by men.

It isn't always a choice though, is it? Some people have to work. There's also the fact which pp pointed out that even if a woman does work, she is still more likely to do all/most of the housework and childcare which is based on our sexist society that women = childcare/housework.

It isn't patronising at all to point out that societal norms influence people, it's common sense.

Perhaps men should look at whether women are good earners, financially responsible and have savings ?

I agree with PPs:

Integrity
Honesty
Gratitude
GSOH
Thoughtful about the little things
Non-opinionated but passionate about important things and similarly is passionate of my important things

On a very non-MN level:
Enjoys contributing to the household duties (DH likes and is good at cleaning and tidying, I cook and do laundry)
No pressure for sex but is fun and passionate when we get the time/opportunity
Likes our inside stupid jokes and quotes only we understand

You've changed the subject. Yes, some women have to work even though they might prefer to be a SAHM, but my comment wasn't about that. I said those that do choose to be SAHMs are not necessarily doing so because they have been influence by society, and yes it is patronising to suggest this, especially as being a SAHM isn't a 'societal norm' anymore. If anything the societal pressure is on women going back to work. I could just as easily say you have been brainwashed to go back into employment and it would hold more weight as that is the current societal norm. So women who choose to stay home are actually going against the grain.
Take into account the generally negative attitude towards housewives/SAHMs from both men and women it is quite obviously not a choice someone makes lightly.
We only have to look at the responses from employed mothers on here:
'Being a SAHM is playing into patriarchal stereotypes.'
'Oh, I'd never rely on a man.'
'What happens when he leaves you and you have nothing.'
'How boring being stuck at home all day' etc etc etc.

What if it is just partially, they want a kind, intelligent, beautiful woman? Is that okay? If so is it okay for security to be part of what some women are looking for? Why/why not?

Men are more visually stimulated than women, so they prioritise/value looks to a greater extent than women do. It is an accepted norm that an initial attraction has to be there for most people to even entertain the idea of a relationship.

Less women are SAHM's now, though it is still far more likely to be the woman to stay at home as it is still absolutely the societal norm for women to be the default parent so even if they do work, it is usually part time because again childcare = woman's responsibility.

I can also give you several examples of comments I've seen aimed towards working mothers on here. The judgemental comments go both ways.

''Why bother having children if you're going to palm them off for strangers to raise?''
''It's selfish to put your career before your children, just take a few years out''
''Just cut back on expensive holidays, cars and handbags, don't be so materialistic''
etc etc

Men certainly don't get judged the same for becoming parents and having careers.

Lurking

@Ribikco Rubbish! I met a guy on a first date and I absolutely did not fancy him in the slightest.
We've been together seven years now, married for two!
Or are you saying your "rule" only applies to men?

@OutsideLookingOut Define "security."

A good man is a man who always puts his family first, is kind, considerate and loving. He'd go the extra mile to help out if he could and makes you feel loved and special. My DH took on my 3 DC when we married and he's been the best step dad imaginable. I always felt guilty because my exh is a shit Dad to our 3 kids but I picked a real gem the second time. DH is often over at youngest DS's helping him with DIY on his house.

@caringcarer I'm very similar to you in that regard, and so pleased my boys have got one decent role model in their lives!

However a particular woman defines it. Could be a stable job, an income threshold, investments, financial knowledge, etc etc

In the same way men or women might be able to define what they think is attractive in appearances.

I think people should only date and marry who they want too, not who others want them too. There are things we find attractive and things we don't. People don't need to be guilted about this.

Marrying someone for their income or investments is absolutely that persons right yes

i, and others are allowed to judge it

And their looks too? Or maybe like most people it is just one part of the person and one of the requirements they have for their partner.

Why more judgement for that than the other factors involved in attraction?

Someone who provides for his family not a cocklodging layabout.
Intelligence.
Emotional intelligence.
An animal lover.
Shows respect for you.
Is in it for the long term.
Someone who is kind.

But surely there was mutual attraction was there very quickly, even if not on the very first date? Presumably you didn't pursue a relationship or marriage still thinking "don't fancy you in the slightest"?

What about men checking that women can provide for their family?

@Oliotya No, I didn't fancy him at all to begin with and we stayed as friends for quite some while. Over time I started to really fall for him (I held him at arm's length for ages due to my first abusive ex-husband) and he grew more and more attractive to me. It wasn't until he'd met my boys a few times and I'd seen how great and involved he'd be as a stepdad (he had no bio kids) that it turned into a relationship.
For me, the fact that he works in such a caring role also added to his attractiveness.
We now have a toddler together (as well as my two teenage boys) and he is an exceptional dad and stepdad. We shared parental leave with our daughter and it was absolutely the right thing for all of us ❤️

Right, so you purseud a relationship with a man you were attracted to. Like anyone else. Presumably he was equally as unattracted to you?
Personally I'd find it really unattractive if my husband's mum paid his MOT for him there you go.

Just because you didn't fancy your husband that doesn't make what I said 'rubbish.' An individual piece of anecdotal evidence from you doesn't negate the fact the most people need some level of initial attraction.

Yes the comments can go both ways, from what I have seen on MN over many years and many threads is that those types of comments from SAHMs are mostly in defence of being put down, mocked and outright attacked by employed mums.
The negativity attached to being a housewife/SAHM appears to be accepted on a larger scale. I actually hate it when I get asked what I do for a living, because I ALWAYS get a negative response from women. I had a smear last week and the nurse said 'Oh, I haven't heard of someone being a housewife in a VERY long time, I think I'd get bored.' I couldn't believe how casually this was said.
The one time I received a positive comment was when I was asked this by a male Dr who happened to be Chinese, he said 'that's a very important job, my wife does the same.' I can only assume this was because traditional gender roles are looked at in a kinder light in Chinese culture.

The reason why there are more SAHMs over SAHDs is obviously biological not societal.

@Ribikco You have completely stereotyped men. So what about if I said this..

"Women are more attracted to money, so they prioritise earnings to a greater extent than men do."

Hmmmm....