What makes a "good man" to you?

[LorlieS]

I was just on another thread and poster said her husband was a "good man" because he earned enough for her to stay at home indefinitely.
Personally, I don't agree with this statement.
So, being entirely honest, what are your non-negotiables?

My list:
Kindness
Integrity
Honesty
Respect
A similar sense of humour to my own
Treating me as an equal
Being present for our family and children.

I'm sure there's more but for me, being wealthy doesn't feature.

@MaxTalk I totally agree with you.

Again the trouble with analysing everything in simple class-based terms is that it overlooks the nuances of why individuals within a class that benefits may still lose out.

Patriarchy keeps men in line as well as women. The kind of men who fit in that line naturally will benefit: white, straight, with the class privilege that makes becoming a high earner relatively easy. But the kind of men who struggle with that aren't random outliers but members of different class-based groups for whom the system was never intended to work.

Holding men to patriarchal standards is unfeminist, just as holding women to patriarchal standards is unfeminist, because the enemy is patriarchy as a system rather than men as a class.

The first paragraph absolutely nails it.

(But to be clear I support all non-binary people to be themselves, so no to the second sentence.)

@gannett I couldn't agree more with the first paragraph either.

This thing about being white, straight and classy privilege is all well and good but is far from the be all and end all.

I know plenty who are neither of those but are extremely successful.

It's all about attitude and approach - you either have it or you don't. It's all too easy to blame the system for an individual's failings.

I agree with your second paragraph. However, if men are suffering by being held to patriarchal standards, which is the thrust of the OPs argument, that's neither a feminist or non feminist issue, but nothing to do with feminism at all. Feminism centres women and their struggles not men.

Exactly this. Men need to sort out the structures they built for their own advancement and perpetuation of power. My focus lies elsewhere.

@5128gap So are you saying feminism doesn't care about men, it just cares about women and if a woman's "wants" are unfair on men as a direct result then so be it?

the enemy is patriarchy as a system rather than men as a class.

great post, really agree and that final point is one that can get a bit lost sometimes.

I suppose it depends on how separatist you want to be (and I'm talking about your actual life rather than theory). I'm not suggesting we centre men or fix patriarchy on their behalf, but I find that the harms patriarchy does to different classes (women, men, LGBT people etc) are too interlinked to ignore.

FWIW if we want straight men to fix their shit (which I do), making them realise they're victims of patriarchy as well is the best argument I've found for it.

Feminism is a movement that centres women and works to redress the harm and inequality suffered by women. Individual feminist women may care about men, feminism as a movement was not set up to do so; any more than a movement designed to further the rights of disabled people should be worrying about whether those without disabilities are being treated fairly or not. I might personally look at a specific domestic set up and think it might be unfair on a particular man, but this would not be part of my feminism, which is not concerned with protecting the rights of men.

@5128gap I see. I would say in that case I'm a feminist who believes that both men and women should be treated fairly regardless. Not necessarily equally, but fairly.

Kind
Good communication skills
Intelligent - academically and emotionally
Sense of humour
Interests in common
Non judgemental
Makes an effort with my friends and family

I take your point to an extent. Unfortunately, being allies against patririarchy doesn't mean its various victims don't at times have conflicting agendas, and then it all becomes a little messy. The only feminism I'm interested in has women front and centre, first and foremost. If other groups benefit from that, then that should be a happy side benefit, not an aim.
As for persuading men to get on board, again unfortunately, those who will see themselves as victims of patriarchy are highly unlikely to be those with the power to bring about change, so having then piggy back onto feminism is likely to be a bit of a one way street in terms of benefit.

@5128gap But returning to my point, are you in effect saying you're not bothered how men are treated?

On a personal level I'm bothered how the men I love and care for are treated. On a societal level I'm bothered how certain disadvantaged groups of men are treated by other more privileged groups of men. Your thread is about how you percieve men to be treated by women, and no, I'm not bothered by that.

@5128gap So what about the "A good man is one who is the sole provider" camp. What's your opinion on that?

I disagree with it. A bad man can be a sole provider, and a good man can have a partner who works. There is no correlation between salary level and morality.

Unless of course he is the sole earner and pays for everything.

Well if he's the sole earner he'd have to pay for everything, wouldn't he unless his partner had private wealth. Isn't that what sole earner means? I don't understand your point.

My man had a lion alpha male trait.

ordinary days sleep, lie down, no PDA, eat, work. As of not doing anything like a typical man.(plus other good person personality like other posters mention)

but in danger situation, his musculine side just shine. Could tell he is on full alert mode and will tell me what to do for the sake of protect me. I would say like the most manly side I ever saw from any person I went out with. The first couple of times that happened , was really the turning point for me to think he is ‘the one’. From bf to husband feel.

I see that side of him, and accepted him unlike the previous men I went out with more being gentlemen or spoilt me.

Honesty is priority - no point everything else being amazing if they can't tell the truth
Kindness
An interest/hobby (anything)
Ability to look after themselves (cooking/cleaning/washing/therapy)
Able to self reflect and grow

Sorry, WTF?!