What makes a "good man" to you?

[LorlieS]

I was just on another thread and poster said her husband was a "good man" because he earned enough for her to stay at home indefinitely.
Personally, I don't agree with this statement.
So, being entirely honest, what are your non-negotiables?

My list:
Kindness
Integrity
Honesty
Respect
A similar sense of humour to my own
Treating me as an equal
Being present for our family and children.

I'm sure there's more but for me, being wealthy doesn't feature.

A strong work ethic
a commitment to an egalitarian relationship
someone who values education and learning at all life stages

@Oliotya I agree with you.
But just as it is absolutely your choice to have married someone on a six-figure salary, it is something that (in hindsight) I would never entertain.
We are all different I guess.

It only took a few posts for the usual “must be a provider” thing to come up. This is part of the problem where society expects men to provide and values that highly. It’s toxic

Good work ethic, loves his family.

The trouble now is that people are horrified and shriek ‘greed’ if anyone suggests that a good man earns money to feed his DC, but a woman’s expected to. As a start.

Regardless, equal doesn’t mean identical. So yes, absolutely - a good man has to be a provider. A lot of DC would be a lot happier if their fathers supported them.

Identity politics doesn’t pay the bills or deliver emotional security to women and children.

Would you also say that it’s important a woman brings her fair share of a decent income to be considered a good wife?

He didn't have a six figure salary when I married him. Your ex is not representative of every "wealthy" person, and I actually think it's horrible to have such a judgemental attitude. You have no idea how or why anyone else got to where they are in life.

To some extent it depends on demographic. I hear it far more on MN with its over representation of six figures salaries than I do in my own less advantaged community, where the willingness of a woman to work is definitely regarded as a positive. There are very few SAHMs i know of, and those that are wouldnt be able to do so on their husband's salary without UC top ups, yet somehow they've married these modestly earning men. I also think age is a factor. My sons and their friends definitely see a woman with a good career as a better option than one without.
I think when using MN as a barometer of attitudes, it's really important to remember that middle class women living in the SE, who aspire to be SAHMs and have access to a marriage pool that includes men with 6 figure salaries, are just one small section of society and are not a guide to the views of the nation.

4% of the UK earn over 100k btw.

And yet it's very typical on MN for partners to earn that. Facts don't back up how common it appears on here.

£30k is the average, or there abouts.
If someone earns more than 30K, they earn more than 75% of the population.

Yes absolutely.

Everything should be equal, including the need to bring in money.

It's one of the biggest stresses in modern life so both parties need to share the load.

It's not toxic. It's the reality of life.

@MaxTalk It is a reality and one I believe that needs to change. It's not equality and I agree with @Britpop123

If men don't want to be valued for being providers, then I think a helpful first step would be for them to demonstrate their value in other things. Because I don't think we should be saying men don't have to be good providers without simultaneously agreeing what they're going to bring to the table in lieu. I'm all for getting rid of sex based roles, but they have to be replaced by other roles. A society where men don't feel any pressure to bread win, and still leave the lions share of domestics and childcare to women is not progress.

I don’t think it’s identity politics to say BOTH parents should be contributing emotionally, practically and financially for their children.

I don’t think it’s fair to expect one partner to be the sole earner any more than it’s fair to expect one to do all the parenting and domestic tasks. I don’t think that dynamic is healthy and plenty of threads on here prove it can lead to resentment.

So in short I agree with you OP. And I also don’t think it’s unreasonable if some men only want to date women with similar earning power.

Respect
Kindness
Generosity - this does not have to be monetary
Humour

You can tell a lot about a bloke when you see a) how he treats his own Mum (by that I mean helping her and not her doing everything for him).
and how he treats cats 😂.

The first time DH came to mine for dinner he was in the lounge and I was just getting us some nibbles and a drink, I heard him speaking and turns out he was laid on the floor stroking my (then) cat’s head whispering sweet nothings in her ear.

Let's agree to disagree then. If anything it shouldn't change at all.

Mental stress and depression is often money related. Both parties need to take responsibility for that.

A ‘good man’ is when there’s no need for the phase to be gendered. A good person or partner, just good for you in your life/relationship.

Honesty, kindness, empathy, good listener, knows how to communicate

@MaxTalk I'm confused. Are you saying both men and women should equally be sharing the financial burden?

I like a man who is funny and engaging
I like a man who has integrity
I like a man who is the type to take charge
I like a man who is loving and demonstrative

again, money doesn’t feature for me

I agree. I’m equally vocal about men taking an equal burden around the home, or with children.

This is where talking about men-as-a-class is a bit unhelpful. Obviously for my personal relationships I want potential partners to demonstrate their value in other things (given that I don't want them to provide for me). And all of mine have. And even if I did want a provider or if DP earned loads more than me, what good would that be if he didn't have value in other things? Because the other things are actually more important.

Maybe men-as-a-class don't demonstrate that value overall but other individual men's failings don't negate the central point.

(I also found that men who were particularly invested in their own image as a provider, and whose self-validation was wrapped up in it, also came with a boatload of other "traditional ideas" about gender roles that any woman who wants to be respected by her partner should be running far away from.)

In addition to all the admirable qualities already listed, I'd add allowing (or insisting that?) a woman maintains her independence.

My Dad is busy making sure mum will be OK without him, should that happen. Too many women, including those much younger than mum, settle into a routine where they're over reliant on a man, be that financially, emotionally or practically.

Generosity is important to me- and that swings both ways not just a man paying. But paying half for everything I think is tedious, a grown up with integrity and generosity should be able to figure this out.

I don't think anyone who agrees that men shouldn't feel any pressure to be providers would expect women to continue to feel pressured to be the default parent and do all of the housework too.

Equality has to work both ways with both women and men financially contributing but also both sharing the childcare and domestic stuff.

Equality has to work both ways with both women and men financially contributing but also both sharing the childcare and domestic stuff

Problem with this is that mothers and fathers in the early years are different, and a good partnership bends and adapts to that realisation.