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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Husband horrible to me and children

262 replies

AmberV · 05/02/2024 13:50

Apologies in advance for the long message. Just the tip of the iceberg. My husband has always been demanding, suffocating, overbearing. When I moved in he wanted the toilet roll a certain way, the towels on the hand rail in the bathroom had to be perfectly level. He would always redo them after I did them. The curtains had to be pulled just so and every day he would redo them moaning and tutting. Like a fool I put up with it and thought he’s got ocd for cleanliness, it’s just ‘his way’.
After we had children I packed up work and it got worse he would want the house just so. Whatever I did it felt wrong. Now the children are 8 DS and 10 DD, he is so mean to our son, says he’s trying to toughen him up. When son got frustrated when he was around 4 or 5 if he lost at something or couldn’t do something he would roll on the floor beside himself hysterical upset, my husband would laugh and go and get the phone to record it which infuriated DS more. Last year it got to the point I could take no more, he shouted right in my face saying how pathetic I was in front of the children because I said that son didn’t want to ‘play fight’ anymore as it generally ended with him in tears. He would shout at them practically every day for not hanging up their coat or put their shoes away, when he really loses his temper they cower in the kitchen under the table or go and hide under their bed or under their bed covers. I spoke to doctor as I was a mess, they brought in the children and spoke to them, then reported it as safeguarding issue, they called SS and they came round, DS heard that we might get divorced and went into the kitchen, took a knife and said he was going to kill himself cos he was so upset. He blamed himself for SS getting involved because he had spoke out to the doctor and said what husband was doing. That was a year ago, things improved mildly, we still tread on egg shells, it still feels like he’s got two army recruits rather than children. I hate him. He still does the curtain thing, tells me all what cleaning I’ve missed doing round the house, opens cupboards and says loud enough for me to hear ‘ffs can’t even stack a cupboard, has no one taught you anything ’ same with the dishwasher, always redoes it. His way of attacking my mum for ‘apparently not teaching me anything or how to do things properly.’

Last week DS got to our door from school first and rung bell. Husband deliberately left sons bag at end of path so he had to go and get it, then he let DD in and then pushed in front of DS and took his time taking shoes off to make DS wait, son got infuriated by this and pushed into husband to shove him, then DS got angry and bit husband, husband screamed at him and walloped him round the head, the first time he has ever struck him , DS was beside himself, ran in and curled in a ball on the stairs. DD saw what happened and stood trembling in the hall, I tried to console them, all husband went on about was how he was the injured party. Yes he shouldn’t have bitten him but it was years of pent up rage coming out.

After I spoke to DS, he said ‘I just can’t stop thinking about it, I don’t know how my fathers not in prison’.

I confronted husband upstairs and he’s still raising his voice going I don’t know how you can take his side after what he did. He could not see how mean he had been not letting him in. My daughter heard me talking, him raising his voice and told him what she thought how she lives in fear how she has no safe place to go how she doesn’t feel safe at home. He would not even look at her while she poured her heart out and stared at the telly. This was Friday. Today he is acting liking nothing ever happened. Trying to buy the kids off again, like he does every time he treats them like shit. He said before if I ever filed for divorce he would fight me every step of the way and there’s no way he’d let me get custody.

When he is in a good mood, he’s fun, he takes them places, wouldn’t think twice about taking them away for the weekend, he’s generous with all of us. But he has an evil, mean nasty streak that even odd times when it’s not there you are always on heightened alert waiting for it. I very rarely go out as I don’t feel comfortable leaving them with him. I went out for lunch this week, he got them from school, I had a really nice time, I got in and they were both really upset cos he’d screamed at them. I have no life. My kids have no ‘normal’ life, they both suffer with anxiety, my DD has toileting problems since age 4 even now, they said it was behavioural. My DS has anger issues and throws smashes things when he’s frustrated or upset. They both are erratic and have nightmares , my DD struggles to go to sleep cos that’s when she thinks when lying in bed. To the outside world we are a ‘perfect’ family. Nice home. Holidays. Yet we live in hell.

I am seeking legal advice this week, I can’t do it to kids any longer, thing is they will be devastated as love the ‘nice dad’. Has anyone been through this and come out the other side?

OP posts:
Snowontheroof · 13/02/2024 02:28

It sounds to me like your husband has severe OCD which manifests as uncontrollable rage when things aren't exactly as his brain tells him they need to be. If so it's not something he can control, cure himself or improve by counselling, he needs to see a psychiatrist and possibly take some sort of medication. He needs to recognise that he is unwell and should have medical help.

AmberV · 13/02/2024 04:21

Thanks so much again all of you, your advice I will take on board and I will look at the links sent. You are so right about the ‘it’s my fault’ thing and blame, the children are always blaming one another for things to try and get the other one in trouble with H, dd admitted to me that she used to make out ds had hurt her just to get my attention as she felt that most my efforts were going to ds which was true but that’s just because of what’s been happening. I will sit down with them tomorrow and say that they don’t need to do all that anymore, that because I’m not constantly diffusing situations anymore that they can both have all my attention and they don’t need to blame the other one for something to get it.

I will take on board the ‘accidents happen’ comment as well, and do away with the ‘it’s my fault’ , thank you.

I hadn’t thought about that but you’re right, I bet ds is definitely worrying about h coming home, I think deep down dd doesnt want him to either. She’s very aware of feelings and she must feel how much better the house is without him and how the tension has gone but has mixed emotions as she obviously misses him.

I’m reluctant to tell them yet H is not coming home cos if they text him and say mum says you’re not ever coming back home again, he will think like hell I’m not and move back in and I can’t stop him. I’m talking to solicitor Thursday to see where I stand if he suddenly decides to move back. Same with if he sees me getting the locks changed on the ring camera, I don’t want to provoke him, I can see from that if he’s gone in the house until I get answers from solicitor.

I will also stop sharing too much detail with H, he definitely isn’t coparenting, he is like you say the enemy.

I ordered the book why does he do that , it comes today, thanks for that. I start my domestic abuse courses on Thursday with the freedom programme. I desperately need to find the answer for myself why I didn’t raise all this much sooner, I know I did last year but I should have done since. I honestly just wanted him to die so that I had a way out. Then it got so bad and hit rock bottom I had to get us out and even though it was absolute chaos at my mums as she’s also a bit of a hoarder, so what with all our stuff and hers it was horrendous but still we had calm.

Now at home the house is so still, so quiet. Weirdly even the cat is more relaxed.

Dd is sleeping so much better, before she had massive anxiety at bed times, now we watch a bit of telly together, have stories (which we used to do before this as well) then she goes and reads herself for a bit and falls straight to sleep about 8.30/9. Before she was up at 10/11pm even later sorting her drawers and wardrobe out cos she couldn’t switch off and lay there worrying about anything and everything.

Thank you all again ❤️

OP posts:
AmberV · 13/02/2024 04:28

I’m also speaking to the school again tomorrow to see what counselling/support they can offer the children, if I can get art therapy or I will ask about the play therapy too, thanks. SS have also referred me to social care and safeguarding and doctor has also referred us to safeguarding too, SS said that should speed things up as they have both referred us.

OP posts:
Shouldbedoing · 13/02/2024 04:33

Hi OP, you're in my thoughts so I checked in during an insomnia spell.

A Ring Camera!!!!!

Please Please Make it a priority to cover that damn camera eye with duck tape or sticking plaster or anything to stop the controlling lunatic from his surveillance of you

You have a right to privacy.

When he complains, you tell him that. 'I have a right to privacy. And so do the kids.'

Ask.the police or an alarm company to check he doesn't have other cameras in the house.

And keep your key in the lock at all times, turned slightly to keep his out of the lock.
Yes he has a right to.return for his things, but by prior arrangement, not to.imppse himself or harass you

Good luck. He has conditioned you not to question him.

He is more of a risk to you than a burglar. Tape up that camera ASAP

MariaVT65 · 13/02/2024 05:25

Shouldbedoing · 13/02/2024 04:33

Hi OP, you're in my thoughts so I checked in during an insomnia spell.

A Ring Camera!!!!!

Please Please Make it a priority to cover that damn camera eye with duck tape or sticking plaster or anything to stop the controlling lunatic from his surveillance of you

You have a right to privacy.

When he complains, you tell him that. 'I have a right to privacy. And so do the kids.'

Ask.the police or an alarm company to check he doesn't have other cameras in the house.

And keep your key in the lock at all times, turned slightly to keep his out of the lock.
Yes he has a right to.return for his things, but by prior arrangement, not to.imppse himself or harass you

Good luck. He has conditioned you not to question him.

He is more of a risk to you than a burglar. Tape up that camera ASAP

Please do follow this advice op!

Preggopreggo · 13/02/2024 05:42

I’m reluctant to tell them yet H is not coming home cos if they text him and say mum says you’re not ever coming back home again, he will think like hell I’m not and move back in and I can’t stop him.

You are their parent, you need to be the gatekeeper here in order to keep them safe. Do they know his number off by heart? It needs to be deleted from their phones and you all need new numbers. Tell them they can write letters to dad which you can pass on by emailing him a photograph, and you can check and show them the replies (if they are appropriate). He should not be having unfettered access to them, the manipulation will continue.

If you want to keep using Ring you need to change the password which will log him out.

AmberV · 13/02/2024 06:51

But then if I cover the ring I won’t see if he is coming to the house. I will try and find out if I can disconnect it off his phone somehow but keep it on mine

OP posts:
Shouldbedoing · 13/02/2024 07:35

Someone else said change the password. Do that if you can. But I would imagine he's the one that installed it, and he's the one controlling it.
Just like he controls you.
Should he knock at the locked door, you say, it's not convenient right now. Repeatedly.
If he kicks off in a rage
Call the police.
(He doesn't live there, your marriage is over, he visits the house by mutual aappointment to collect things. He has the right of entry, but a decent man would not force it. Know this but don't say it yet.)
'We're busy, in a rush, I'm changing, we're about to eat etc
Buy your own Ring or similar. There's one by Eumy, the robovacuum makers I've seen. That brand would not interact with his Ring. His Ring. He's been watching you, forever.

Avatartar · 13/02/2024 09:08

I must say I’m suspicious of him being so compliant and leaving the home without a fuss. From the behaviour you describe he’s extremely controlling, I suspect he’s planning something, keep your guard up OP. You have to make sure he has no keys to new locks etc. make sure all window locks are working and he can’t sneak in

Catoo · 13/02/2024 10:43

Switch the ring go off OP. Get locks changed while you know he’ll be at work or busy. Then maybe switch it back on.
If he asks why it went off for a bit just say you haven’t noticed and don’t know. Grey rock. No emotion. Nothing would persuade me to keep a lock he has keys to in these circumstances. Law or not. Also consider he will have copies of front and back door keys.

But I also agree with PP getting a new ring go. He has no need to know when someone’s at the door anymore etc.
(If you won’t change the locks add an extra bolt on the inside)

Agree with PP that H number needs taking out of and blocking in DC’s phones. This is for their own protection. You cannot have DC inadvertently relaying information to him. H will use this line of communication to undermine and manipulate. Maybe some time in the future it will be ok but not now.

Can you get any kind of protection/ restraining order?
💐

RandomMess · 13/02/2024 10:48

Please speak to Rights of Women today, they will guide you through applying for an occupation order and another non-mol order.

You need to do both for the DC protection.

pikkumyy77 · 13/02/2024 11:41

AmberV · 13/02/2024 06:51

But then if I cover the ring I won’t see if he is coming to the house. I will try and find out if I can disconnect it off his phone somehow but keep it on mine

Cover his and get your own. That he can’t watch.

Wallywobbles · 13/02/2024 20:03

I've only read your posts so im probably missing loads of things but I'll tell you our story.

ExH &I divorced when my kids were 2&3.

My children aged 8&9 had finally had enough with the abuse and threats. They asked to stop seeing their dad. They went to court and had their own lawyer and talked to the judge by themselves. One at a time.

This judge ordered 90 min visits every other Sunday for 4 months at a refuge. This was meant to rebuild trust and contact. The kids were literally terrified of him.

At the end of this period I talked to them. The youngest was adamant she was done with him. And so I asked the eldest to have 3 months break and then we'd talk.

Apart from occasionally checking they were ok about it, I dropped the topic entirely. After 3 months she could easily recognize that he was bad for her and her DSis.

They've never seen him again. We went back to court one final time and lost parental responsibility. They're now 18&19.

So my advice is to say to your kids no contact of any kind at all for 3 months. And then we will talk.

Prior to this and after this my kids had counseling with our GP who is a trained psychologist and who they knew and trusted. Not very often. But whenever it seemed wise.

I had counseling on my side with an amazing psychiatrist who validated my experience and made me understand that I wasn't the issue. I had 4 or 5 sessions.

AmberV · 15/02/2024 22:17

Had a nice evening with children , we’ve continued having our family meals together which is so lovely. Then we all cuddled up and watched something on Netflix, then at bedtime my dd who is not getting the physical abuse was getting upset saying how “she misses dad, going to me don’t you miss him?, you seem happy, why can’t I see him on my own he only hurts ds “ I’m getting all these questions , I said that it’s the professionals that are insisting on supervision to keep you safe and she was going do you miss dad, I said I don’t miss the shouting and swearing and ds getting hurt. I said to her that all this happened a year ago and he said he would change and it’s just got worse than he was before. I said I’m worried someone is going to get really badly hurt. I just can’t seem to say anything right and don’t know how much information to give, at the end of the day it’s still her dad that she loves

OP posts:
OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 15/02/2024 22:21

' he only hurts ds '

you do gently need to say that he shouldn't be hurting anyone, at all, ever

RandomMess · 15/02/2024 22:24

Please read how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk and then the follow on book Siblings without rivalry.

It talks about "tricky feelings" that you can both love and hate someone. You can also reply to your DD "what do you think" when she asks if you miss him.

You can talk about your job, your job is to make tough decisions like missing Daddy but not seeing him because of his unkind behaviour.

Etc.

cestlavielife · 15/02/2024 22:42

Famiky tgerapy , chikd cenyred therapy will help. Yes dd will see him as daddy she loves. Maybe in few weeks or months yes supervised contact

samqueens · 15/02/2024 22:59

This is something definitely worth getting professional input on. For now it’s probably just important you let her know you hear her and empathise - even though the outcome won’t change, it’s important that she knows that it’s ok with you that she loves her dad. You don’t want to get into a situation where the children feel you are forcing them to take sides as he will use it (and her) against you. It’s also ok to say “I don’t know”.

Eg
”I love dad, I miss him, why can’t I see him? He doesn’t hurt me”

”I know you love your dad, of course you do - he’s your dad. It’s ok. You can always tell me exactly how you feel, you don’t have to pretend - it’s safe to tell me anything. Sometimes we love people even when they behave badly. But even though he hasn’t hurt you physically, there are different ways people can hurt us - not just hitting someone. I want to protect you from all the different kinds of hurt.”

”but do you love him mum?”

”I don’t know - I have a lot of different feelings right now. But I do know that if anyone else hit your brother or caused us all this much pain and anxiety I would find it very hard to love them. It’s difficult when the person hurting you is someone you have cared about for a long time. So I just don’t know how I feel right now and I want to be honest with you about that. I just want to keep us safe and that’s what I’m focusing on right now”.

Well done for finding some downtime in the madness. You are doing amazingly, and you’ll be having these conversations with your daughter for a long time - you don’t need all the “answers” right now.

HenndigoOZ · 16/02/2024 01:45

when I left a similar relationship, my male psychologist and I discussed conflicting feelings in children.
He shared that his father used to regularly assault his mother and would also thrash him with a tool and make him kneel on some kind of hard stones or something like that which was extremely painful for him.

His mother finally left and took him with her. The father would hound them, turn up at their doorstep to try and make them return.
The psychologist shared that he begged his mother for them to go back.

The way he explained it was that it was his child self that was talking. His understanding was quite limited as a child and his child self felt the loss of what was “normal” in his world at that time and the move had flipped his world upside down. He felt it could all be fixed by returning home.
His adult self however agreed with his mother’s decision to leave and he was glad that she didn’t act on his child self pleas and take them back. Things eventually settled and he obviously then became the psychologist that he is now.
Anyway, his main message was that children need for adults to make the difficult decisions even when they disagree. It’s OK for them to express their conflicting feelings but they lack the capacity to understand the full implications of their wishes.

@Amberv your DD as an adult will likely one day also express that she was glad that you made the decision that you did and understood more that you needed to protect everyone.

MariaVT65 · 16/02/2024 02:08

I would be blunt with her tbh and explain that him hurting her brother is horrible and a crime and it means he has the potential to hurt her too, and it’s literally to keep her safe. Keep to the facts. Dad has hurt your brother, which means it is not safe for us to be around him’

Lancia72 · 16/02/2024 10:01

When he is in a good mood, he’s fun, he takes them places, wouldn’t think twice about taking them away for the weekend, he’s generous with all of us. But he has an evil, mean nasty streak that even odd times when it’s not there you are always on heightened alert waiting for it.

It's not 'fun' then, is it.

You see this a lot. A kind of psychological denial/wallpapering over the cracks. The 'heightened alert' is misery, full stop. I wouldn't try to convince yourself there's any fun involved anytime.

It's so sad that inside their own four walls, so many men terrorise the people in the world they're supposed to be the kindest to, and all - I have no doubt - due to their own insecurities.

I'll bet good money that 1) he's not brave enough to be this confrontational and threatening with anyone else and 2) he genuninely won't understand why his children avoid him when they're adults.

It's like these men feel their horrendous behaviour towards their families is a divine right and should be entirely consequence-free.

KL090 · 16/02/2024 10:36

I agree being careful not to say too many of your own opinions as what it can do is start to confuse the child a lot more. Right now what you say doesn’t match up with her feelings and you can’t explain away her feelings either. You need to just let her feel them and acknowledge them, you don’t always need to give an explanation or a come back to try to get her to see the right/wrong. You can say you know she misses him, you can just hug her and say you love her without bringing up past issues at all.

pikkumyy77 · 16/02/2024 12:21

Such good advice from all the posters!

I think what i would add is that Validation is not a kind of Negotiation. You can validate her feelings without letting the moment spiral into a negotiation. Just keep hugging her and saying you understand and empathize without yielding on the new rules. She will feel safer—paradoxically—the more she pushes to see him and the more you reiterate it is not happening.

AmberV · 16/02/2024 22:55

Today was going so well, we had dinner, ds made some musical instruments, we had nibbles watching Netflix together. Then just before going up ds wanted me and his sister to play his instruments he had made. Dd wasn’t listening to how he wanted us to do it, he took them off her, she took them back, he walloped her, she ripped up one of the things he had made. Then in a split second he launched himself across the room at her, scratching and kicking her, a full on attack. She ran upstairs straight on the phone to dad saying I don’t feel safe without you home !! Absolute joke when it was that knob that caused all this devastation and how ds is behaving. Meanwhile ds is banging his head hard on the bannister and the wall saying he is stupid, an idiot, useless and just kept saying I want to die, how he was born mean and how sad he was at what he had done. How no one listens to him and no one cares and he doesn’t trust anyone. So absolutely awful. He calmed down after I cuddled him but so bloody awful to see. I obviously checked on dd but she can’t understand how he’s done that to her and he gets cuddles 😔😔

OP posts:
RandomMess · 16/02/2024 23:10

Your DD is 10, remove her phone.