Coping with Silent Treatment

[baffleddays]

When DP and I have a disagreement he often gets annoyed and shuts down the conversation, by refusing to talk, physically leaving the house, going to sleep etc. If he does leave when he returns he'll often be distant with me, give one word answers, stare at his phone etc. He says he just doesn't want to have to always talk things out, but I feel like I'm getting the silent treatment.

The problem is - I really struggle with the silent treatment. It feels so uncomfortable that often I end up being the one trying to offer olive branches, smooth things over etc. (even if I was the one raising a grievance at the start of it all) just to get the awkwardness to go away. If I do try to tolerate it rather than caving into it it still consumes my thoughts, stops me being able to concentrate on work etc. I often end up replaying the conversation in my mind and trying to work out how it all unravelled.

My worry is that I think I need to be able to tolerate the silence better to avoid the risk of it being used against me... so I was wondering if anybody has any good tips or suggestions?

The fact that he keeps interrupting you when you're working - that's another play for dominance. Any excuse to make sure you're putting him first.

I have to agree with @danceswithducks.

And while over thinking CAN be an issue, the overwhelming thing I have noticed on thus thread is not you "over thinking" but rather slowly coming to realise that things you have accepted are not in fact part of a normal healthy relationship.

A PP a few days ago said something about relationships shouldn't be this hard. And I agree. Dh and I have been together nearly 20 years, when things were really really hard, we DID put the effort in. But 1. By then we already had 2 children and a life and 2. The effort was mutual- we both tried really hard to work through it. You are not financially tied to him, nor do you have children. It should still be easy.

I understand your instinct not to just end a relationship but I will say again - you shouldn't have to be hyper vigilant. You should feel that you aren't listened to. And you shouldn't feel like you can't talk to him. If these things don't change quickly, the there is a problem.

And post for as long g or as much as you like. There's no rule that says you can't post in case you "over think". You will just be over thinking in a vacuum where the only person who can give input is the same person causing you distress.

Thanks so much everybody for your replies - I really do appreciate all the support and patience!

I think gradually I am coming to the conclusion that the relationship may need to end... and I agree with the points made about not wanting to end up hyper vigilant, waste more time etc. I just seem to be struggling with a lot of self-doubt and fear still around potentially making that decision to separate - so I'm in the middle of trying to get to grips with that. It doesn't help that during "in the moment" conversations with DP, where it might be a logical time to say let's split, I always seem to end up too confused to make clear decisions.

This weekend for example, I tried to tell DP how it makes me feel when he storms off, goes quiet and distant. Before I spoke to him I felt sure that I was reasonable in what I was saying... but the longer we talked the less sure I was.
For example, I told DP that I understand that he may get angry or upset sometimes and that I understand he may want time to himself if he's feeling that way... but said that when he does that by storming off, being moody and refusing to engage at all it affects everybody else and that's not fair. DP's responses were to say:
That he can't help it if he's annoyed and doesn't want to talk to anybody.
That he's allowed to feel that way.
That people can't all handle things the same way as I do and that for him when he feels overwhelmed that's how he handles things - by removing himself.
That it's better to do that than to be shouting or smashing things up.
That he doesn't see why him being annoyed and not talking affects anybody else as I can still get on with my day.
That I seem to be thinking about myself but I don't seem to care that he's having a rough time and rubbish day too...

In that moment, by the time we'd got through all those comments, I had no idea whether I was reasonable or not to be saying don't walk off and go sulky on me for the day! Which is ridiculous as I was so clear beforehand but during the conversation it all just starts to feel confused. So I think if the decision is made to split it may be a decision I need to make "out of the moment".

To respond to some of the comments in previous posts:

Maybe he's just stressed and finding my niece or nephew difficult (and maybe that's why it's okay for him to have walked off during a day out). This is an excuse. My kids' stepfather, when they were being annoying, stayed with us and actually quietly got involved, changing the conversation to something they like
This is really interesting as it reminded me that actually DP did used to make the effort to do that. Try to change the subject or make it into a game if nephew was playing up etc. And he actually used to be good at it. Whereas now unfortunately when there's stressful moments he tends to at best walk away from us and at worst show that he's annoyed. Which is really sad to reflect on. I have asked DP previously why it changed and he said something about being worn down over time and not having patience left to deal with the behavioural issues that my nephew sometimes has.

Unfortunately despite DP’s crankiness with him, my nephew is actually really attached to DP (is with me and DP at least twice a week, we've been on holiday all together with wider family, nephew tells DP he loves him etc)... so now that there’s a realistic possibility that DP and I could split I do feel a lot of guilt for bringing DP into my nephews life. I know nephew would be upset not to see DP anymore, but DP made it clear to me a couple of weeks ago that an end to our relationship means he’d just leave and that I am my wider family wouldn't see him again.

Rule of thumb for me - if something small annoys me once, let it go. If it annoys me three times, mention it.
I’m going to remember that approach for future use! That's very helpful, thank you.

When I said I've wondered if I’m raising things that I should be letting go… as well as thinking about how often something bothers me before I mention it, when I wrote that comment I was also thinking about the severity of things that I let bother me. For example, when DP picks up and starts using his phone while I am already talking to him... it bothered me, I said something then I wonder whether that’s so minor that I shouldn’t even be bothering to bring it up.

For wondering whether I’m sensitive to anger… from memory it is only my relationship with DP where I’ve felt this way. So that’s an interesting lens to shine on it that that makes the issue less likely to be with me. I did wonder whether I just haven’t been around that many angry people and that’s why I find it uncomfortable!? Of course I’ve had people angry with me at times and I do find it uncomfortable but can accept that it happens, I’ll apologise if needed etc… but I don’t remember being around family or friends who’ve shouted, slammed about, looked as angry as DP does at times… i guess it’s those actions rather than the emotion of anger itself that I find intimidating.

Did he have a difficult childhood / difficult parents who didn't listen to him or respect his choices as a child?
DP doesn’t talk about his childhood much but from what I've heard he got on well with his parents, lots of good memories etc but they were strict (he's mentioned they would do a physical smack on the bum for bad behaviour, literally wash mouths out with soap etc) so it’s very feasible that there wasn’t much being listened to. Which is ironic considering DP says now says kids today get too much, there isn't firm enough boundaries, no should mean no more etc.

You don't have to win a reasonableness argument to end a relationship, you just have to feel you'd be happier without them in your life. Sometimes walking away from an argument can be a good thing, especially if you're tired and have had a bit to drink. Sometimes discussing things the next day when you've calmed down is better than a fight to the death approach. Always walking away and never discussing stuff is just avoidant behaviour though.
He doesn't have to be a terrible person for you to want to separate. My exhusband has many good qualities but I was happier when we separated as we weren't bringing out the best in each other and life and communication in general is easier with my current husband.

That's how it wears you down - a stream of little things it seems petty to mention, as they seem so trivial. Death by a thousand cuts. And all the blame on you for being "too sensitive" or some such reason.

I felt with my marriage that we had somehow warped each other into a version of ourselves which was so much less than we could have been, like two plants that have intertwined when they shouldn't have done. Since my divorce I have been growing ever more straight and tall

You mentioned a day over two back that your DP doesn't always reply if you say something to him. I wouldn't read to much into this. I can be a bit like this with DH. Mostly its because I think he's being rhetorical but it turns out he isn't, or because he's made a statement that I think doesn't need an answer. Other times it's because I'm processing what he's said and that makes me slower to respond.

That he can't help it if he's annoyed and doesn't want to talk to anybody.
That he's allowed to feel that way.
That people can't all handle things the same way as I do and that for him when he feels overwhelmed that's how he handles things - by removing himself.
That it's better to do that than to be shouting or smashing things up.
That he doesn't see why him being annoyed and not talking affects anybody else as I can still get on with my day.
That I seem to be thinking about myself but I don't seem to care that he's having a rough time and rubbish day too...

This is al pretty classic. What he's doing here is minimising what's goign on by using grains of truth and reasonable language. Because of COURSE he's allowed to be upset. But that's not the issue. The issue is that he gets "upset" and uses this behaviour in inappropriate ways and at inappropriate times. Let's just remember the last time it happened - you had asked him to stop leaving his clothes lying on the floor of the bedroom. The result was that he got upset, stormed off, and didn't talk to you for a few days. That is NOT reasonable behaviour.

Unfortunately, this type of narcissistic behaviour (I am not saying he's a narcissist - I have no way of knowing but I am saying this is narcissistic-like behaviour) is characterised most notably by an inability to take responsibility or accountability for their actions. A complete lack of empathy and understanding regarding how the other person might view things.

For me, this is a huge issue. You say he's been making more effort. But I asked before if the effort was because "if I don't do these things she gets all huffy with me" vs "I've realised this behaviour isn't okay" and it's pretty clear it's the former.

One of the most difficult things about breaking up with a person like this is that they will never understand, never accept their role in things and you will always be portrayed as the baddie. You may need to accept this. I'm sorry.

I know I already replied, but your posts are eerily similar to the situation with my SIL and exBIL. Even down to the children - in the beginning, exBIL was ALL about our DC. He LOVED them so much, would play with them etc etc etc. But that was all just an act as part of his process of getting SIL (and us) under his thumb. First we had the period where he'd attempt to "parent" them in ridiculous ways... while we were right there. eg, we'd all be in the kitchen, I'd be cooking and DS would be wondering around and he'd be saying OVER AND OVER again, "Oh DS, be careful of the stove. Don't walk there. Come out of the way" and I'd be like, "it's fine, I'm watching him and he's not underfoot". If he wasn't doing that, he'd ignore them. Or they'd beg him to play with him and he'd go out and play for about 3 minutes, then wander off.

By the time they were in the break up phase, when my Ds gave him a bit of lip one day, he sent him a stream of messages telling him off that were so inappropriate it was the final straw for us.

On one memorable occasion, I had an emergency and asked him to take DD as both SIL and DH were not around. He made it clear he wasn't willing, so I just got on with it, but then still managed to turn HIMSELF into the victim - by the time SIL got home, he'd tried to call me 4 times because he was so "worried" (for a minute, SHE was annoyed with me for not taking his calls - I was in A&E ...!) and poor SIL had to deal with his "distress" that had meant he'd had to abandon all his plans for the day.

completely agree with @GingerIsBest about responsibility, and about him being reasonable in some things, but then building on that to the extreme and to the point where he is deeply unreasonable.

That he can't help it if he's annoyed and doesn't want to talk to anybody. True, but the phrasing sounds like he's taking no responsibility.
That he's allowed to feel that way Yes, he is
That people can't all handle things the same way as I do and that for him when he feels overwhelmed that's how he handles things - by removing himself
Yes, temporarily - but he doesn't come back to sort it out and resolve it, does it?
That it's better to do that than to be shouting or smashing things up That's a dreadfully low bar - and maybe a covert threat?
A mature adult would remove themselves from the situation if they had to, then come back and talk.
That he doesn't see why him being annoyed and not talking affects anybody else as I can still get on with my day. very disingenuous to the point of being a lie. He's extremely well aware that if he acts like this, you're uncomfortable and unhappy especially as he's 'trained' you. Anyone would be walking on eggshells at this point.

That I seem to be thinking about myself but I don't seem to care that he's having a rough time and rubbish day too... Right back at him!

It doesn't help that during "in the moment" conversations with DP, where it might be a logical time to say let's split, I always seem to end up too confused to make clear decisions.

This concerned me. If you are going into discussions trying to solve things and you end up confused and going around in circles, then something strange is going on. Once is nothing - when it becomes a pattern, it's something to take note of.

I've had this experience once in my life and he turned out to be a major game player, in a very nasty way.

It fucks with your mind and confidence, big style, until you get to grips with it.

The only way Ive ever found of handling it is by disengaging and having clear in your mind what your goal for the conversation is. You have to detach from the idea that you can get any agreement from him, because he does not want agreement. He's playing games.

So the only way to get your own goal is to detach, to keep your own points clear in your mind and not to engage more than superficially. Actually, if it's really a mindfuck then writing the points down, putting the paper in your pocket and literally just putting your hand in your pocket and touching the paper secretly can help keep your mind clear.

I want to say that I think you're doing extremely well. A few weeks ago you were struggling with the silent treatment but were not aware of a lot of the more difficult aspects. Now you've come a very long way!

That it's better to do that than to be shouting or smashing things upThat's a dreadfully low bar - and maybe a covert threat?

This is such a good point by @DancesWithDucks . These are the ONLY two options? Really?

I would actually recommend doing a few searches for narcissists on TikTok. There are a lot of content creators on there who position themselves as narcissistic abuse recovery coaches etc. And while I have no idea how good they are etc, I have found a lot of them are really good at defining and explaining what happens in these situations. There's even a word for this sort of circular conversation where you try to address something but somehow, it all gets away from you. But I can't remember what it's called.

There's one called Claire Auden . She's pretty good.

'That people can't all handle things the same way as I do and that for him when he feels overwhelmed that's how he handles things - by removing himself.
That it's better to do that than to be shouting or smashing things up.'

This is quite enlightening. He sees the only 2 options to be stonewalling or violence. Not great and as pp has said, contains an implicit threat, therefore training you to accept his shitty behaviour.

It seems like you want him to understand your point of view - not unreasonable in most circumstances,
but I think here he understands it perfectly, just doesn't want to take it on board.

It's fine to say it just isn't working and time to call it a day. Can you see that the threat of completely stepping away from your wider family is highly manipulative?

He has really done a number on you

Op I've now taken a breath and got to the end of your thread this far.

Oh my god.

The work you've put in.

Don't let this relationship take any more from you you'll end up ill.
You sound like you're running on empathetic adrenaline.

You need to crash. You need to end this and give you you back

Good luck x

Because of COURSE he's allowed to be upset. But that's not the issue. The issue is that he gets "upset" and uses this behaviour in inappropriate ways and at inappropriate times.
I agree and tried to explain that it was about the behaviour rather than the feeling… but found myself then trying to explain why somebody being silent, giving one-word answers, physically interrupting when you try to speak feels crap… which it turns out is actually not an easy thing to explain!

During the conversation, even when DP sort of accepted that silent treatment doesn’t feel nice to be on the receiving end of he still said something along the lines of his right to not want to talk is as important as my right to not want the silence. After half an hour of those circles my mind was blown and I just walked away from the conversation.

Fortunately even though I walked away because I could see that it wasn’t getting anywhere, I did also walk away with an awareness that the conversation was not okay – in terms of not getting any resolution but also as it surely can’t be normal to end up that confused after a conversation (and to answer your point danceswithducks – it’s the type of confusing conversation that has happened many times, not just a one-off).

As has been said in a few replies, you’re right that there is some truth / reasonableness to the things he’s saying and that’s what makes it confusing in the moment – as I can, for example, have empathy when he says that he is genuinely emotionally overwhelmed as I can understand people don’t behave the best in those circumstances. But then once I’m back away from the moment and have had time to think, I feel like there’s an issue with that explanation in that I struggle to see how such a heightened state of overwhelm could last for 12 hours (which I think is his record for the silent treatment). And as no, he doesn’t come back to resolve things at the end of it – he just suddenly starts acting more normally again.

That he doesn't see why him being annoyed and not talking affects anybody else as I can still get on with my day. very disingenuous to the point of being a lie. He's extremely well aware that if he acts like this, you're uncomfortable and unhappy especially as he's 'trained' you. Anyone would be walking on eggshells at this point.
I did wonder how anybody could not be aware how that behaviour makes someone else feel… after a while of getting nowhere in the discussion I did put it to him by describing one of the ways he’s behaved in the past and asking him how he’d feel to be on the receiving end of that (told me first thing in the morning that he was so fed up with things he was close to leaving the relationship and then ignored me / refused to talk for 8 hours) his main response was to say that I was trying to back him into a corner by asking him that question in that way.

The only way Ive ever found of handling it is by disengaging and having clear in your mind what your goal for the conversation is. You have to detach from the idea that you can get any agreement from him… if it's really a mindfuck then writing the points down, putting the paper in your pocket and literally just putting your hand in your pocket and touching the paper secretly can help keep your mind clear.
I think this is a good tip, thank you. That’s the sort of idea I was thinking of when I said about a decision to split would need to be done “out of the moment” – I think I’d need to decide it and communicate it rather than the decision to split being likely to ever organically come from a wider discussion… as I suspect in a discussion I’d be too confused / there’d be too many circles to make that call. It has made the whole thing harder as in the moment it’s confusing and out of those moments DP turns so instantly back to normal and reasonable that it prompts self-doubt.

That it's better to do that than to be shouting or smashing things up.'
This is quite enlightening. He sees the only 2 options to be stonewalling or violence. Not great and as pp has said, contains an implicit threat, therefore training you to accept his shitty behaviour.
I can see what you all mean about their being a covert threat there… earlier in the relationship DP and I spoke about how I don’t want to be around that sort of throwing, banging etc. behaviour, so he knows how I’d feel about that. I think as you mention he’s effectively saying that in the height of the emotion the only way he can manage his emotions to avoid angry outbursts is by shutting down totally. I don’t know whether he sees that as a choice or whether that’s genuinely the only way he can regulate – but I can see that if it is the only way he can regulate then that’s not good and something he should be taking responsibility for addressing.

Can you see that the threat of completely stepping away from your wider family is highly manipulative?
It does make sense that it could be manipulative, as DP definitely knows that I’d worry about any impact on nephew. When we had the conversation where DP said none of the family would see him again if we split, I said to him that was maybe a bit unfair on nephew and maybe he could at least phase out that relationship rather than just cutting him off. DP’s response was to say that in the situation of a split he would “have to be selfish” so that wouldn’t be happening. I couldn’t quite work out whether that was deliberately manipulative, reasonable but very unempathetic, or just a reasonable approach to splitting up.

In the beginning, exBIL was ALL about our DC… He LOVED them so much, would play with them etc etc etc. But that was all just an act as part of his process of getting SIL (and us) under his thumb… By the time they were in the break up phase, when my Ds gave him a bit of lip one day, he sent him a stream of messages telling him off that were so inappropriate it was the final straw for us.
That is a bit eerie as it does sound very similar – lots of play, fun, supportiveness towards niece and nephew at the outset of the relationship but now he’s easily frustrated with them, doesn’t really engage much, but then takes offence when they’re not engaging or impatient with him. As with everything else in this post, it gets confusing because I know that the behaviour from them can be challenging so when he says the reason he engages less is because he’s worn out, lost patience etc. it again has an element of believability to it.

I have noticed that there’s started to be a change in me though as at the weekend I found myself starting to feel angry with DP about some of the ways he behaves – for example, when my nephew was deciding what he wanted for breakfast (and had taken a long time about the decision) DP came into the room, told nephew he needed to hurry up and passed a comment about how children today have too much choice. I found myself feeling angry because not only was he getting involved when he didn’t need to (which happens a lot) but also because it felt like a judgemental comment too – and I just felt a bit like “how dare you”. As a person I very, very rarely get angry so for me to start feeling anger is actually quite a notable change.

Don't let this relationship take any more from you you'll end up ill. You sound like you're running on empathetic adrenaline. You need to crash. You need to end this and give you you back
I have been very drained and tired recently, from a combination of relationship issues and general life. There was a helpful suggestion earlier in this thread around focusing on positives and starting to build the life I do want to have - so I think I need to start investing more time in doing that… as then hopefully that will give me some energy back ready to deal with a break-up but also some motivation to split if it becomes more clear that DP can’t fit into what I expect my life to be moving forward.

I’m so grateful to be gradually feeling clearer about what’s okay and what’s not and to see some of the patterns more in what’s going on. I think at the moment one of the bigger things still holding me back is around the self-doubt and fear, so I need to understand that but am also hoping that focusing on building my own life positives and self-esteem more generally will help with that too. I’ll also watch the videos that have been recommended in your replies, thank you.

As always, thank you all so much for your support – and apologies for the huge reply! With having lots going on here I don’t have that many chances to get online and reply so try to do it all in one go. I’m impressed that anybody manages to read the whole thread at this point I know it’s huge!

I want to say again that you're doing extremely well. He's had you snowed under and running in circles and it's very hard when you're in that situation to keep clarity of mind. Plus you're having to face the strong possibility that all the effort you've poured into this relationship might not build towards a better future (Not because of you, but because the material you have to work with is very ... flawed. His underlying character is not very nice, however hard he flashes a charming personality at times).

What comes out of your posts in the last days is how much he's confused you. It seems from a distance as if he's clouded your mind and now you're beginning to clear those clouds away.

DP came into the room, told nephew he needed to hurry up and passed a comment about how children today have too much choice. What is he, 70?

I think as you mention he’s effectively saying that in the height of the emotion the only way he can manage his emotions to avoid angry outbursts is by shutting down totally. From considerable experience, if someone is saying that they have no moderation. Relationships where someone is lacking a sense of proportion and self-control are never healthy and a good environment to grow in.

If you do split up, one thing to be aware of is the power of habit. You're -used- to him being around and if he isn't, the good sides of him will come back to you. It takes a while to get used to the sheer change, but that passes in time.

Concentrating on what you -do- want and on positive things and goals is an excellent idea! Onwards and upwards =)

Oh OP, what I take from these posts is that you're just so worn down. The thing is that relationship are supposed to make your life BETTER. You're not supposed to feel confused, and tired and stressed. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells. And you shouldn't have to explain basic concepts like how awful it is to be ignored to a grown adult.

That Clare Auden on TikTok I recommended the other day has a video on this that I think will resonate with you. By my count, just on this thread alone, you have detailed at least 6 of these 10 behaviours.... https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeyexMrM/ The one that jumped out at me is the circular arguments that defy logic and the need to explain things that arguably any normal, mature adult would understand already.

And as no, he doesn’t come back to resolve things at the end of it – he just suddenly starts acting more normally again. This is the key point about silent treatment. It's one thing to say that you need some time out. But the big difference if either DH or I have that time out, is we can still function and engage in terms of day to day things. More importantly, after a few hours or whatever, we'll sit down and talk about whatever it is we're feeling. His method means that nothing ever gets resolved.

Re your niece and nephew, I hate to be alarmist but I have to say that I totally get why your nephew loves him, but his attitude and responses are, in my opinion, long term damaging to them. As they get older, this inconsistency, judgement and distance from him will hurt them and THEY will also start walking on eggshells around him. You haven't specified but it's obvious you play a fairly central role in their lives so I don't think it's unreasonable to be thinking about this almost like a mother - if he is unreliable and inconsistent, is there a point at which it's better for them to have him out of their lives sooner rather than later? And I agree (as ever) with @DancesWithDucks what a wanker in terms of his comments about "children today". what the actual F does he know?

If you split up of course he wouldn't see your nephew any more. Exboyfriends are exboyfriends. They don't usually stay in touch with your extended family which is a good thing if they're huffy and self centred. You still seem overly influenced by his arguments and what he thinks. Do you not like being on your own?

One thing I realised towards the end of things was that conversations about conversations don't work - or you might as well assume that they don't, mostly!

So I did my best to stop having them. With varying success, as I am only human. I would say 100% of them turned into the same basic circular row we'd been having for years.

OP I oould have written your entire thread. My first marriage was like this. And I stayed in it for nearly 20 years! Let me assure you, things do not improve.

This book on Amazon is really excellent. The cover is crap and the content is full of typos, which would normally bother me but in this case I turn a blind eye to it because of the quality of the content. He knows what he is talking about and actually offers proper advice instead of regurgitating the usual platitudes.

It's free on Kindle Unlimited, so if you have no subscription you could do a 2-month trial just to read this - I do think it's worth it!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07RT19C59/ref=kinw_myk_ro_title

Another book that's free on Kindle Unlimited is Patricia Evans's wonderful classic, The Verbally Abusive Relationship. You mention having experienced verbal abuse previously, so I am hoping you've already read this - but if not, you really must!

It might sound odd to mention verbal abuse when your thread is about silence, but there are some overlaps in the patterns behind it all...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Verbally-Abusive-Relationship-Expanded-Third-ebook/dp/B01MYCGDMF/ref=sr_1_1?crid=33DK7T93CUR9Y&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.65c4teTbvgLmAqB71ow4b2nquaMIG-G4VQiNXVshceHJ6o8vPuGwpaNr5w6JuCagGmZXq5oxpW_Rh3sn8ER_-R34ei8zktgZrAWcNkMVFSPfqNuKJUY22MfYayMCsAD8vhB2th73Kg_W33BWybrEZ8UnoeWr_plvVuhXloKCiE4oyL3DblLu78vTtxlk1d469swLCUxy-0HIabjL-PQqR6pTjJ-ec_fv6-Zhpm_q7H8.TkCj_SPF-cctIWq69F_vGt1s_ktxoYIhHHkddGV8nII&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+verbally+abusive+relationship+by+patricia+evans&qid=1710006681&sprefix=the+verba%2Caps%2C657&sr=8-1

How are you doing, @baffleddays ?

I hope today has been an okay day for you

@DancesWithDucks - thank you for checking in with me, I'm doing okay thank you... I've had lots of family events on over the last few days so that's kept me very busy but has been a good way to start the approach of trying to build on life's positives and start moving forward in a more positive direction!

I find myself getting frustrated sometimes with not having as much time as I would like to read or watch all the amazing resources that have been shared on this thread, but keep trying to remind myself of what you've kindly said - that actually I am a lot further forward than I was when I started this thread in Feb so perhaps I need to be a bit more patient with myself and keep taking one day at a time. I know I'm still constantly processing things at the back of my mind and can feel some mindset shifts in myself so that’s a positive.

It was an interesting point that you raised in your last post about seeing somebody's underlying character rather than just their personality too... as even though things have been fairly calm here over the last week, there have been a couple of times where DP has said something that's fairly minor that probably wouldn't even have registered with me before... but now I'm wondering if there’s an undertone of superiority to what he's saying. For example, he commented on the way people were parking and I sensed there was judgement to it... and then sure enough a few moments later he said his parking was the "right way". Similarly he said something this week about he doesn’t worry about what he wears and so at least people know he’s not shallow… which got me wondering whether he thinks people who do care what they look like are shallow? Perhaps I’m reading too much into these things… but I'm not deliberately looking for them, it’s just stuff I’m starting to naturally notice now.

@GingerIsBest- thank you for sharing the Clare Auden video - I watched it and you're right that most points resonated unfortunately... "desperately trying to get back the person you had in the beginning" really stood out to me as I know I keep falling in the trap of remembering how DP used to be and finding myself trying to understand why it's not like that anymore and perhaps having more hope than I should that things can return to be that way.

The video mentions your partner being "unfazed by your tears"... I remember in my previous relationship my partner used to walk away from me when I was crying and not care, which made it feel special that when I came into this relationship DP really cared... he'd say things about how he'd never want to be the cause of my tears, would sit and talk for as long as I needed when I was upset, would try to do things to cheer me up... and I'd never had that before. More recently though, not only has he not seemed to care when I've been in tears, but at times he's actually treated my being upset like it's an inconvenience and again like I'm making a big deal out of things - he's actually said to me "oh what now!?" when he saw that I was in tears. Which as I remember it now was really horrible, but at the time when it happened, in the thick of it, I just walked away rather than "making it worse". There's so much that's happened when I look back over things that going forward I just can't allow to happen again.

I'm definitely reflecting on your point about my niece and nephew too as you're right that I spend a lot of time with them and absolutely don't want them to be exposed to things that will have a negative impact on them. It did get me wondering about whether, when DP walks off on a day out, that feels to them the same as a silent treatment feels to me?

The video also mentioned circular conversations… I think I’m going to try the approach mentioned by @MysteriousInspector of not having “conversations about conversations” because I can see that it doesn’t get us anywhere anyway. I’ll try to just say in the moment if something bothers me rather than having to bring it up later. Easier said than done though if I can tell he's getting wound up and I don't want to make it worse!

We did unintentionally stumble into a bit of a conversation over the weekend over taking nephew on a day out... we left the conversation quickly as I don't think either of us wanted to get stuck going round in a circle but what was really interesting was to hear DP say himself that he’s tired of going round in circles on the same conversation??

@Dibilnik – Thank you for sharing your experiences and the links to those books – I’ll definitely read them as I haven’t read either, including the verbally abusive one unfortunately. I went very quickly from the horrible break-up where my ex became verbally abusive to this relationship, so in hindsight absolutely didn’t do what was needed to heal, set better boundaries etc.

Interestingly @2rebecca I actually would be totally happy to be on my own and at this point even welcome the idea of it so am not sure how it panned out that I ended up in another serious relationship so quickly and definitely don't think that factors into any hesitance to leave. I’m definitely still influenced by what DP thinks though, I think maybe it’s just a natural setting for me to consider the views of other people and whether they could be right

Hey :) good to hear that you've been having a good few days =)

Shifting mindsets and noticing more is good! Both the negative and the positive. It's a process that you go through and it takes time.

I think maybe it’s just a natural setting for me to consider the views of other people and whether they could be right This is a good thing too! As long as you value your own views too, and what's right for you.

It did get me wondering about whether, when DP walks off on a day out, that feels to them the same as a silent treatment feels to me?

Absolutely. Because it IS the silent treatment. It's withdrawing communication, affection and engagement.

DP say himself that he’s tired of going round in circles on the same conversation??

Cynically, I suspect what he means here is that he's tired of going round and round because you won't just agree with whatever it is he thinks.

I think maybe it’s just a natural setting for me to consider the views of other people and whether they could be right

It absolutely is a natural tendency for you, and is why a man like this was able to get his claws into you. A positive personality trait that becomes a weakness that can be exploited. It shouldn't be like that.

I do find the similarities between your P and exBIL really quite eerie. Even the comments about parking and clothes. I can't really blame anyone for being judgemental about poor parkers because I admit, I HATE people who can't park correctly! . But I think what you're talking about is the tone? I remember a few instances in the past where exBIL would be talking about something and we all agreed with him but there was something in his tone and attitude that made the rest of us uncomfortable. I remember once a news story about a child who had been abused and obviously we were all outraged but there was something off, and weirdly performative, in the way he was going on about it. DH and I were very uncomfortable.

With your clothes example - exBIL had a complete meltdown when SIL got a new car once. Banging on and on about how shallow she was and how she was just trying to match the neighbours etc etc. It was all so weird. But the absolutely weirdest part was when he then went out and bought a new car himself a month later. I bet your DP, for all he rants about people being shallow, is actually super aware of what he wears?

@baffleddays just a quick one.

Something he said stuck with me, and when you are ready to leave this relationship, I thought you could use his own words of what he said about your nephew:

"he said something about being worn down over time and not having patience left to deal with the behavioural issues.."

By all means, at the end, you could say the exact same thing about his 'behavioural' issues 😀

You are doing really, really well. I've followed this from the start and I am rooting for you!

@baffleddays I too am here supporting you.

I have a very similar person, 10 years in.

This is after 20 years with someone more overtly abusive.

I am very much a work in progress.

I'm a compassionate thinker like you. Your thoughtful posts and the time you've taken to carefully set down in detail your recent experiences and reflections is helping me loads.

And so are the thoughtful and pragmatic responses, references and insights from other posters.

Thank you all ❤️