January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826?amp%3Bascsubtag=mnforum-

@Genuineweddingone lovely to hear that your son is thriving at school. It’s only possible to thrive once you remove the narc contact - well done!

So proud of Mr Monkey for not buckling. We had a good talk about it. This latest crisis is not shifting in his view of her and his behavior around it.

He has the phone on silent, but is leaving it on in case it’s the hospital with anything urgent.

She rang and rang and rang last night and we ignored it and watched TV.

@REP22

Dusting off my ruby slippers. It is absolutely performative suffering. It’s a common theme with her.

Beyond her disgusting behaviour, I'm so angry at her for the absolute leech she's being on the NHS. Our local hospital is run ragged.

I think the nurses have got her measure, though, as she's been described as “she’s a very strong-willed lady”, which I think is code for absolute bitch.

That story of your RADA trained fellow patient is a classic. The thing with narcs is they are so bound up in the joy of their drama is that they leave these little clues, so she wouldn't have seen the dash for the trolley as not stacking up with the rest of the mesmerising performance.

When I read this all back about the Hag it defies belief. Thank God I've got this record of her appalling behaviour, so I don't think I'm delusional. The support here is incredible.

@Genuineweddingone this is a very good point. She is FURIOUS when people don’t bend to her will. 🤣 How wonderful that your son’s grades are not just maintaining, but improving. You are one amazing parent. Enjoy that break.

@Sicario . Oh yes! A hospital stay is all singing-all dancing showtime.

She’s LOVING it. Nurses popping in every 10 minutes.

Being able to refuse her operation for her broken hip and then have everyone fly to her bedside to persuade her, but not having the insight to realise that doctors can force the Op through in the patient’s best interest.

Being able to refuse medication, but not realising NHS can do most of it intravenously.

Being able to rip out her cannulas (narc fury), but then having them put back in and her hands taped.

Being able to refuse food, but then asking when the next meal time is!?!?

Inconsistent everywhere, but all designed for maximum Oscar winning narc showtime. MM gets it now. Slave Son worried sick DOESN’T get it.

The best is the refusal of pain relief, so every time they move her (commode, bed pressures) because of her broken hip she screams the place down. Pure martyrdom.

Sadly, no weekend away. Flu for me!

@Tbry24
Awful. I'm so sorry. It sounds like your siblings absorbed the lessons of how your parents treated you and carried on a horrible family tradition.

And WHAT AN INCREDIBLE PARENT YOU ARE.

So glad MrM is not buckling @mm x

I assure you the hospital staff will absolutely have the measure of her!

@MonkeyfromManchester I might have to pop in once or twice to see if we can sing the 'ding dong the witch is dead' song for your hag lol

@user8800 I'm SO proud of him. Oh yes, the hospital (long-suffering) staff will have seen it ALL before. Hope all is good with you.

@Genuineweddingone the spare room awaits you….

Gosh.

How strange.

The Hag is much brighter and asking for food today.

Mmmm…

i’m sure the miraculous recovery has nothing to do with the departure of the lovely SIL and my nephew back to Scotland. They were a rapt audience to the refusal to eat, take medicine and ‘The confusion’ (which comes and goes) which was, of course, sucking them into to Narc Wonderland.

In Narc Wonderland she

1. thinks it's OK to manipulate people
2. manipulate her 21 year old GS who has learning difficulties WTAF and who was incredibly upset by the screaming and the many refusals and
3. that SIL and GS would pack up their lives in Scotland, move here and look after her as she's not getting the level of care and devotion from Mr Monkey…and, let's face it, Slave Son isn't as useful as he was and she's bored of toying with him.

I have been in touch with hospital social services to update them on all points and to remind them that we cannot and will not take up her care when she's unleashed into the world. Setting up the barricades.

I've just done my tax return and wow, has my income dropped over the last three years. I should be charging her!!!!

Hello,

Could I ask for your help and insight regarding a situation?

I have been LC with my parents for a year now. I'm visiting their town ATM for another family members birthday. Because there was a falling out a year ago I am no longer staying at my parents and so I have finally gotten the courage and just book myself into a hotel for a few nights.

My parents gift money for birthdays and Christmas. A smallish amount. I expected it and as I am working through things I decided to leave the money side as has been and not reject it etc. for now. It's been a difficult and emotional year and I am just tackling one hurdle at a time and not that one yet.

So as expected I received a couple of envelopes. I opened them later and realised they have gifted me more than three times the usual amount. It also happens to be the same amount my hotel costs for the stay. Knowing my parents they would Def have looked up the hotel,costs etc. it's just what they do. One envelope had written 'holiday money' on it, meaning the 'holiday' I am currently on.

I'm confused and pissed off and just exhausted from it all.

What's everyone's take on this?

This comes from the same parents who told me 'after everything we have done for you' a year ago when I finally stood up for myself and stopped accepting their BS.

Do they know what they are doing?

Hi @Twatalert

My take is that yes, they definitely know and are trying to force contact.

Take the money guilt free, enjoy the stay and don't have your hand forced into seeing them.

@Twatalert
They know. It's snarky and supposed to induce guilt.

@Twatalert it’s to remind you and tap tap tap away at you
I dreaded birthdays and christmases because they would send gifts to the children (usually ignore me) but then refuse to speak to them or me. They ruined everything as I was waiting for them to make contact. My sister used to send a present to one child and not the other for Christmas - it was shit.
The only thing you can do is take it and spend it or return it - return it (which I sometimes did) gives them ammunition, thanking them gives them a way in. So personally I would just ignore it totally!

@MonkeyfromManchester maybe she’s not human? Rather than a just witch. Maybe she’s so broken but glued together rather than gold, absolute shite and crap, there is certainty no heart there is there?? The relentless phone calls etc she’s just keeping going forever isn’t she!

Hope you have peace soon

@Twatalert - don't give it a second thought. Use the money for your hotel stay and brush off any feelings of obligation. You don't owe them anything, and the money means nothing to them in the grand scale.

Twatalert

Oh yes absolutely they know what they are doing here. The money is meant to further make you feel obligated/grateful to them and is often done as a further means to try and control the target, in this case you. I would not acknowledge this in any way from them. A response from you is what is wanted by them so please do not give them this.

Dumb sent the family group chat a message which went down v badly.

Mr Meerkat has further pushed back against Dumb and Dumber yesterday so well done him. He got Dumb to back down!!!. We will continue to see Nice Aunt and do our very best by her. Dumb and Dumber should hang their heads in shame but no doubt the two of them sleep soundly at night.

@AttilaTheMeerkat - it never ceases to amaze me how thick-skinned these people are.

Indeed. I am fast coming to the conclusion that Dumber is even worse than the other one; at least Dumb is more obvious a twat in plain sight. Dumber is quieter but volatile and does as Dumb tells him to do.

Interesting everyone, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I find it hard to comprehend that anyone would think more money makes a difference. I find it quite calculated and just don't get how anyone could be like that.

I just totally didn't expect it and didn't think they would do anything like that.

I guess I somehow still doubted they would be exactly like people describe abusers on the internet but they keep proofing me wrong.

The money thing is to guilt trip you. My mother put 300quid into an xmas gift for me after I told her I wanted out of my life but it is just so she can tell people she gave me the money. I spent it on lovely things for us for xmas and thought no more about it. She was going to tell people she gave it to me regardless so I treated us with it instead.

The money thing or presents is to make them look good.

Say thank you and you’ve opened the door
Dont say thank you and you are rude
Send it back and it’s poor me
return it politely and they kick off you can’t win

@Genuineweddingone yeah this very much sounds like it.

I do keep thinking that they probably tell people that they have no idea why I went LC and they do this and that and 'get nothing back' but they'd do that regardless of the money.

You hit the nail on the head. It's how I felt with other things as well.

I just found it weird to give me 'holiday' money' . I'm a grown woman with a good income. I'm not the child anymore that depends on their 'generosity'.

Yep, it's another form of gaslighting.

Have you decided how to deal with it yet?

But they will always see you as that child, unfortunately, @Twatalert

@Spencer0220 no, not yet. I'm going to take my time with it. I won't deal with it now as I'll make the most of my stay and don't feel the need to decide asap. I guess that's good because it means the guiltripping doesn't work. I'd previously constantly work to appease them.

Very good, yes.

I have quite a bit of fog. This is the first time I have seen them in over a year so I'm not seeing things clearly.

They do know they treated me like shit growing up and as an adult, right? So deep down they do think they are putting things right by giving me three times as much money. So in a way they are admitting they were shit?

Well, this isn't very good.

They carted the Hag off to her hip break surgery this AM without letting Slave Son and Mr Monkey know. She is the bane of my life, but even so, this is appalling.

Slave Son, in his 60s, who is the defacto carer has to phone MM for MM to advise SS what to do. Does he hang around the hospital? Does he go home? The Hag has battered him into submission, so he has no agency or ability to make decisions. What a mess.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Dumb and Dumber sound absolutely appalling. There is so much self-interest there. What a way to treat their mother. Awful. Nice aunt must be glad there are people like you and your husband who are there for her.

@Twatalert money is another weapon abusers users. Love bombing with it - strings attached/guilt inducing/bribery. Unfairly distributing with a lion’s share going to the favourites. It's the same with gifts. Lots of game playing with £££.

The thing with abusive parents, they will NEVER admit fault. If they do, any apology comes with a caveat. Nor does it last long.