January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826?amp%3Bascsubtag=mnforum-

@HeyItsMeImTheProblem waves discreetly at your new disguise 🥸

Oh dear @Sicario you have put the most terrible idea in my head 🤣 googling thrash metal…

@HeyItsMeImTheProblem
It made perfect sense to me ! x

Say you are busy etc. My DP’s 40th he went for the meal with his side of the family I stayed at home.

@Tbry24
Sod them I say !
Do whatever you.want to do for your birthday and sod them all. Invite your aunts and cousins and anyone else you want and leave your mother out if it . She doesn't deserve to come. And follow your plan ! I bet it would be a great day so don't listen to her .
In fact I have learnt not to share much because it only leads to people raining on your parade ( or pissing on your chips as DH would say ) with their constant negativity. I used to cry over phonecalls that made me feel rubbish like that and one day my husband said " why do you keep giving your mum the bullets to shoot you with ? ". It was an eye opener and I realised he was so right. Now I share v little except superficial stuff. x

Thank you, last year was dire. I spent the whole day stressed and tearful not knowing if my dad was OK after being sent a really bizarre text very early in the morning. Then obviously no contact with siblings etc rest of the day apart from the obligatory birthday cards, I’ve had no contact with any of them since tbh apart from a parcel at Christmas and some cards.

So hoping for a nice birthday this year as it’s a special one. If no one else is going to want to see me at all or if they did turn it to crap I’m going to have a look for some interesting things, like museum exhibition etc , throughout the year and have a few days out like that instead. Will take the pressure off of the actual day in case someone decides to ruin it.

I just didn’t like my mother commenting about my father doing nothing when she herself does not want to see me, has never visited our home, and for Christmas just sent me some rubbish from a charity shop but seeing herself as a fantastic caring parent! We drove 8 hours last year, my whole Mother’s Day spent on a car journey, to see her just for once on the day as a surprise. We arrived and she didn’t want to know and we left after 5 minutes….but she thinks she’s a nice parent to me 😰

@MonkeyfromManchester thank you yes my childhood was emotional neglectful, I learnt that from my therapist. I’m the eldest and had to be the responsible one and look after the others etc. and at the same internalised everything and blamed myself for all the times my parents were upset (both had and have different issues). I was a very quiet studious gifted child with my head in a book to get me out of there. I’ve mentioned things before in my old user name tbry (just changed it in case people are spying on me). My father and mother both have favourites. My mother especially, my sibling who lives nearest her is the favourite and always has been. That sibling is the one who is treating me the worst. This started 12 years ago being snubbed not included and so on abd got to now when none of my siblings want anything to do with me. We grew up with f*ed up family dynamics and then my parents hideous divorce to boot so I can’t blame any of us children for that but I was the eldest that looked after them all so I don’t expect for them to then turn on me and push me out.

@Sicario thank you my therapist suggested NC a couple of years ago as the neglect was so bad, my siblings have at the same gone NC with me. Their reasons unknown. But my parents are in their late 70s and I’m not doing that to them, especially my father as he and my stepparent have also been ostracised by my siblings. So I feel obliged to be the eldest child and not do that and carry on trying. I know it’s not healthy I had a massive breakdown 6 years ago and now I have diagnosed PTSD and agoraphobia and a pile of other things due to my childhood and my past (ex and domestic violence for years and being attacked as a teenager). But rejecting my parents is not who I am, I just have to protect myself at the same time and put boundaries in place. I’m getting much better at this now I know it’s a thing.

My therapy also highlighted the childhood problems but also highlighted the fact I’m not to blame them for being crap parents but to try to forgive and relearn things and how to be myself finally. That’s the hard part as I can do it to some level but some of the hatred aimed at me I can’t forgive as however terrible my life has been I’ve never treated anyone else that bad, especially my wonderful child.

I was beaten black and blue (only not my face so others didn’t see) at many points as a young parent, PTSD related to this, and I’d somehow make myself stand up, cuddle my little DC and get him some nice tea on and play with his toys. And just get on with our lovely little life together just the two of us, he was my very very very best friend. Without him, unbeknown to him, I would never have survived as he was the one person I had, so to protect him I kept myself going.

He’s in his 30s now and he’s still the one biological person I have alongside my DP. I just hope with all my heart I’ve not passed one drop of the bad stuff on to him, I occasionally snap and he sees me upset but I try my very hardest. Since the moment he was born I have done the complete opposite to my parents.

@Tbry24, did a therapist really suggest that you try to forgive your parents? If so I find that concerning. Making your own peace with how you've been treated is one thing, but any encouragement to forgive is just another pressure on you, and may not be healthy or helpful at all.

Phone propped up against a YouTube video of "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" may prove cathartic. Jubilant munchkins can work wonders.

I fear to say it, but I think the Hag will rally. When I read your post about her sudden decline, going on morphine, following her refusal of consent for the op., I thought that there was "performance suffering" at play. It sounds like carefully-curated martyrdom. Just enough to warrant medical attention/intervention but stopping short of finality and rallying "in time". I've seen it before in hospitals when I was a patient, sadly.

Once when I was in hospital and quite acutely unwell on a drip, there was an older lady opposite me who made an immense spectacle out of everything. Of the five of us in the ward, she was the least unwell. She was noisily demanding, wailing about everything, banging her table and constantly pressing her bell to get her pillows adjusted, refusing food, insisting that she couldn't get to the loo so needed a commode (all the while with the increasingly frustrated nurses and family members saying that this wasn't the case, she was perfectly capable). The commode shenanigans defied belief - screaming and wailing with every noisy shite, groans and berating of the nurses, while the rest of us looked at each other shaking our heads. Then came the moment when the lovely lady and gent from the WRVS shop pushed their trolley of delights into the ward. The woman was up like a f*cking greyhound, getting her purse out of her bedside cabinet and buying up a small fortune in sweets and tat-mags which she devoured immediately. The lady in the next bed (who was really desperately ill and on a morphine driver) and I grassed her up to the nurses' station. The shenanigans stopped almost immediately and the lady was well enough to go home within 36 hours.

I am so so sorry that you and MM are dealing with this additional layer of crap. I'd say it defies belief, but sadly we know enough of the Hag to render it all completely believable, You are such a blessing to MM and an utter inspiration.

Strength and love. x

I don't come here often, but I vividly remember timidly coming on here at a time of deep distress and asking if my parents' behaviour past and present was acceptable, was I over-reacting. The support I got was so genuine, compassionate and wise. I was overcome. For the first time in my life I felt heard.

If you feel up to it, share some examples of behaviour that has distressed or disturbed you. You will get some insightful and kind responses that validate you properly. It's a very healing step to take.

I'll tell dh I'm busy...
I'm not interested in playing happy families

Yes it was talking therapy and I’m supposed to forgive the parts relating to them being useless and try to not let it control my life. I understand why as my anxiety and MH illnesses at the time were so bad I couldn’t leave the house without panic attacks and the like. I’ve now got it under control by managing all the symptoms so was the best thing ever for me. But I can’t forgive and in some cases it would not be healthy for me too. I am just trying to come to terms with things, understand things from a distance more and try to find some peace.

I was very surprised that I can be told my childhood was neglectful (I have thought processes and coping mechanisms missing from me that other people learn as babies/toddlers to self soothe etc hence the reason I couldn’t cope…m still at 50 trying to figure out what they are and how to learn them at my age) and then at a later stage of therapy be told I need to learn how to forgive them as they had their own problems/probably didn’t mean it.

I was so angry/heartbroken at that point that an expert had actually had to highlight and spell out to me in simple terms that my ‘crap childhood’ )as I called it) was actual neglect for me to understand what’s going on in my mind and why I’m having panic attacks that that was the last thing I could have done.

I completely agree. In my case it was my therapist giving me names and terms for the MH illnesses I was suffering from (I was so low I thought the only way out was to end my life) and spelling out in very simple terms that this is very common for survivors of domestic violence and neglectful childhoods.

This thread can help in the same way as we will recognise things and patterns as a lot of us have endured different things yes but there’s overlap and similarities.

I then started thinking or actually remembering (I’d blocked a lot of it to survive) what would I think or do if I saw a child or teenager being treated like this. And then started loving the little child version of me because no one else obviously had ever done that properly for as long as I can remember, in my case sadly for me I can remember all the way back to being under two…not for good reasons.

Three years later i am still setting aside a bit of time a week to think things over calmly, not all the time where I was a nervous wreck, and to acknowledge it. Very slowly healing.

The very simplest way of thinking about it is if you are a parent would you ever treat your child/children the same? However we were brought up and whatever we went through the one thing we will all have in common I feel is empathy….the thing missing from the parent/parents/grandparents that treated us badly.

God knows what the fuck is going on with The Hag NOW. Phone has been ringing ALL night - it’s The Hag - Mr Monkey ignores it.

Slave Son is now on the phone, on command of The Hag, guilt tripping Mr Monkey. SS is unbelievably stupid when it comes to the manipulation.

SS believes that he or MM needs to sit by her bedside to feed the fucking bitch. Oddly enough, she was able to feed herself a yoghurt, but when nephew turned up, Hag ‘couldn’t feed herself’. This is such UTTER bollocks. SS wants to MM to sit by The Hag’s bedside day in, day out like he does. GROW A FUCKING PAIR. SS is a past master at manipulation in a massive aggressive manner, whereas Hag just screams.

WHAT A FAMILY.

Can MrM just turn his phone off?

That's what I'd do...
(Or put it the freezer!)
😊

I disagree I think letting her call and call and not get an answer is going to bring on a heart attack or stroke!

You may have a point there!

The Hag has an audience. The hospital is her theatre. All bedside attendees are her pawns. This is solid gold narc supply and she will be orchestrating every waking moment for maximum drama.

If ever there was a reason to take a last-minute weekend away somewhere, this is it @MonkeyfromManchester - with no phone signal.

Have decided last minute to take my son and dog away for a few nights to a caravan without wifi and hopefully not many more people so we can just regroup as a family and forget everything thats gone on recently. Incredibly we had my sons parent teacher meeting today and all of his teachers have said that since the xmas break he has actually gone up a merit in almost all subjects so going from average to higher etc and I do not think that it is a coincidence that my mother has not been around taking my mind space and his and leaving room for me and him to just deal with our normal homelife together so as a treat for him for being such a resiliant and wonderful kid I have booked us to head off so wont be online at all and hoping that no drama forms while I am away. I will check in when I get back but want to fully focus just on us for a few days for the first time in a very long time.

Wishing you all a peaceful few days with no narc drama ahead x

Have a wonderful time x

@Genuineweddingone have a lovely break with your son.

Please tell me Mr. M has dutifully stayed away.

I do hope you both are looking after yourselves now.

Yep, there is that..,,

@Genuineweddingone, I hope you have a wonderful break.

Definitely not a coincidence that your son is doing better in school. Well done to him. 🙌🏻👏🏻🙌🏻👏🏻🙌🏻