January 2024 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2

Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos

Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/

Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise

Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler

Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/

Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All

Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826?amp%3Bascsubtag=mnforum-

Thank you @AttilaTheMeerkat I know you've a lot going on with your aunt so very much appreciate your taking the time to set up a new thread and include my list of resources. I've another book to add -

Believing Me: Healing from Narcissistic Abuse and Complex Trauma by Dr Ingrid Clayton (recommended by Dr Ramani); trigger warning, has aspects of childhood SA.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Believing-Me-Healing-Narcissistic-Complex-ebook/dp/B0B92ZLXWX

She is also on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ingridclaytonphd/

checking in .

Wrong thread apologies.

Thank you @AttilaTheMeerkat

Thank you @AttilaTheMeerkat for setting up the new thread. I bet Nice Aunt is so glad of your kindness in her life. Her children (sons) sound like arseholes. I imagine you are moving the furniture so your aunt can manage.

love to everyone and thanks for all the supportive messages.

with regard to the reinvented relationships there’s so much trauma bond and wish fulfilment. it must be so hard to bite your lip in those circumstances.

It will be interesting to see whether this will happen with MM. I’m going to encourage grief counselling or to get urgent referral to NHS. Im going to have to keep my trap shut.

hag is now in side room, shouting and screaming. Lots of paranoia which TBH has always been there. I think she’s always had a serious mental illness like schizophrenia alongside the full on narcissistic shit. End of life, basically.

im full of flu so resting. Woke up screaming and crying this morning so I’m ill as I get nightmares when I’m I’ll.

love to all x

Slave Son will defintely reinvent his childhood and adulthood. He’s never admitted what a monster she is. What has he got left in his life? Jeez, what a mess.

Yes, it is a mess :( Awful situation for you.

All you can do is look after yourself and get better and just be there for MrM.

More therapy for him probably a very good idea.

If the hag is being really loud/disturbing the ward they may well give a sedative/anti psychotic.

Sadly @MonkeyfromManchester I would be willing to bet serious money on Slave Son reinventing the past when The Hag does go...I know all 3 of my uncles would have said their mother was wonderful before they all died themselves.

Keeping my mouth shut while partner goes on about how wonderful his misogynistic, homophobic, racist, brexit voting tory cunt of father is taking so much effort it is unreal. Times like this I'm glad myself and partner don't live together (he works away) so I get a break from it. His father has even made comments like 'I don't want to be here anymore' and when partner first tried going back to work, his father ended up calling the Samaritans! So partner is now terrified his father is going to do something stupid...partner is still not back at work full time and it's nearly 4 months since his mother died. His work have gone above and beyond, he's been on full pay up until now, but that's going to end soon...his father seems to be ignoring that his only son has lost his mother, that he's not the only one grieving.

I hope you feel better soon x

@user8800 Mr Monkey is back from the hospital. It’s horrendous. She’s screaming all the time. Paranoid, demanding and swiping at the medical staff. Not surprised. I didn’t think it would be a graceful death. Ripped out the cannulas so the anaesthesist is coming to call. Dr has said to Mm and slave son Just go home.

@FreeRider your poor uncles. It’s that trap, isn’t it, of abusive families. It is SO hard for people to admit the toxicity. Guess it’s worse for men as some are so emotionally illiterate.

your partner’s dad sounds like a PEACH. I bet you are very glad he’s not round the corner. It is ALWAYS all about them. NOT ONE OUNCE of compassion for others. Can you encourage your DP to read up on grief?

I’m in bed on the hot toddy cure all. Mr Monkey is horrified that he’s had to use single malt posh whisky. 😆 #imworthit

@MonkeyfromManchester Jesus how awful, she has completely lost control. Moved out the way where she can't upset the ward is even worse for her, she knows she has been sidelined. She is being starved of her attention/oxygen.

Iv had calls from hospital in past when my mum behaved like this. I told Dr and ward nurses on speaker phone to keep sedating her until she behaved or send her to the asylum. Mum once scrawled black and red crayon all over the walls WTF. They just go too far.
My mum was never even embarrassed by her behavior.
I also have that flu/cold im on hot lemon, honey and cloves.

Hi all, made it across!
@MonkeyfromManchester I hope you're feeling better soon. A single malt hot toddy sounds just the ticket.
I agree with another poster, Mr Monkey will likely grieve the parent he wishes he had been given. I did that when I went non-contact. Thinking of you both.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thanks for setting up. I’ve been reading everyone’s posts. Not able to reply properly as working early to late these days 🤗 to all

I'm having a lager with my feet up 😊

I've not got any wine or sparkly stuff so I'm slumming it 🤣

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been following these threads for a while, reading everyone's experiences and seeing if I identify with any of them. I have bought Toxic Parents and I'm about half way through. I'm not sure I'm finding it helpful at the moment though. My parents are definitely toxic, however the examples in the book are way more extreme than what I experienced and I'm struggling really to understand my parents behaviour as it doesn't really fit in the categories in the book. Some of the things my parents (mostly mum) did in terms of emotional abuse where pretty awful, things I would never ever do to my own DC (and in fact I now work in a field were we do child protection referrals and if a child disclosed to me some of the things my mum did I would absolutely be putting referrals in because I would be horrified!), but were certainly not at the higher end of the scale.

I know there are lots of books listed above but can anyone recommend ones which might cover what I need? I don't know if giving examples from my childhood might help to paint a picture so you can advise?

Welcome @TremendousTurnip - there's a whole kaleidoscope of different experiences here. Some of our stories are similar, but they're all different.

One thing we all seem to have in common is that it takes a long time to unpick the bones of our toxic family relationships and find a way to move forward.

Many of us choose to go No Contact with family members, realising it's the only way to break the cycle and start the healing process.

There's a lot of support to be had here so feel free to share whatever you are comfortable with.

Hi everyone I’ve found the new thread. In this one my new username should be the only one that appears tbry being my name from last year 😁

So sorry @MonkeyfromManchester for what your partner will have to go through soon. So sending my warmest thoughts in the direction of all of you….and feel better soon.

Hello to everyone else new or here but not posting yet. I’m not online as much at the moment as trying to do other hobbies to distract myself from all the negativity in my life.

Had another dreadful phone call with my mother today so felt really low ever since. No matter what in between all the other crap and complaints or judgemental comments I always have to get told about one or the other of my siblings

For anyone new and just joining this thread for the first time none of my siblings now speak to me as they all decided to exclude me from the family, started off in small ways then was LC as long as I was the one instigating it all and made to feel bad and now it’s just a card at Christmas style LC. that’s my full siblings I grew up with and I’m learning to make my peace with it and adjust my mindset .

And then my half siblings (very big family) I’ve not had proper contact for about 2 decades as I was deemed inappropriate many years ago….toxicity from both parents when married as a young child and when divorced since my teens, parents partners when there were partners, etc, etc ,etc so nearly 50 years of ‘stuff’. So my situation is pretty complex.

This time reading between the lines and adding things up afterwards I’ve been told that one sibling plus spouse is in a city close to me this week but as usual won’t bother to be in contact or see me (they’ve never even seen our home, lived here 5years). Why on earth my mother thinks that’s a positive thing to tell me to cheer me up who knows 😰

Here and checking in to the new thread.

@MonkeyfromManchester hope you feel better soon. Sorry you are going through all this. Shame that you won't ever get any sort of diagnosis for closure now.

Love and hugs to all.

My mum flies out on Thursday for the funeral. I'm still feeling like I'm a small fishing boat in a storm.

Another long time lurker of this thread stepping out of the shadows just to say @MonkeyfromManchester I hope you and MM are ok. Hag has put you both through utter hell but remember this....there is light at the end of the tunnel. 🤗

Reading as always but not in a place mentally where I can give advice so holding off. Hope everyone is doing ok. I am hoping not to have any drama that I need to report in this thread but you never know I guess.

Just when I thought dumb and dumber could not behave any more badly, they excelled themselves yesterday😡.

I will write more later. Par for the course with those two idiots.

@Genuineweddingone hugs to you.

@AttilaTheMeerkat hugs also

I honestly think they take it as a personal challenge to behave badly.

Neither Dumb or Dumber were at her house yesterday to receive her. The ambulance crew phoned Dumber to get the revised key code as it had been changed. Between them as well the two of them have managed to lose her emergency call button pendant. Dumb turned up some time later between the ambulance crew leaving and her first carer arriving.

They likely do re taking it as a personal challenge to behave badly. They certainly see her as a nuisance. The problem also is that the eldest son is very charming to other people (like Adult Social care and the other women who were in her ward; they all got some chat from him)but beneath the nice act lies a wolf. He has treated her appallingly and her other son is just as bad (perhaps even worse, he merely does as he is told); some would call it elder abuse. I am also going to ask Adult Social care in the coming weeks why they thought it was a good idea to send her back home when she expressed a wish to go into a care home.

So, I'm hiding up here in my room. Sister in law and nephew arrived from 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 last night. Went straight to the hospital.

Hag was in a state refusing to eat or drink. Shouting. Screaming. Being nasty to SIL. What a surprise as she sees SIL as a rival.

The sight of grandson perks her up no end as he worships her (despite her having seen him very, very infrequently because she doesn't like my lovely SIL) so here’s the narc supply like the fucking cavalry.

Not out of the woods. PNEUMONIA. Can't have hip hop until she's stable.

I predict she will hoover in SIL and we will hear lots of “here’s my beautiful grandson, he's come all the way from Scotland to see me.” to the nurses.

Interestingly, my other nephew has stayed away. He completely gets the toxicity.

So, she's now able to take a bit of water and food. FFFFFFFFS.

I just want this hideous endless hell of the Hag to be over.

I'm dreading her getting better and the reinvention of history where everyone will forgive and forget what a fucking evil nasty bitch she is.

I won't. I live with the consequences of her abuse of MM.

Just snarled at Mr Monkey. When shit like this happens he does have a tendenancy to go a bit martyr wonder where he gets that from so I've retreated to bed.

I am comforting myself with the fact that she's 86, the op might kill her, and if she does come out of hospital it will be respite care and then a home.

I intend to use flu so I don't have to see her piggy little glaring eyes with a visit. She's a really nasty bit of work.

@binkie163 Jesus, your mum. Do you think it was mental illness as well as being a psycho? if the witch could get out of bed - unlikely with a broken hip - she would be throwing things. She used to smash the house up when MM was a child. No embarrassment at all.

Hope you are recovering. Fever has now broken so had a very hot shower.

@Parentalalienation
Thank you, xxx

@tonewbeginnings xxx

@TheBuggerlugs sorry to hear this. The gang is all here.

@user8800 please send lager. It's medicinal.

@TremendousTurnip I think placing the abuse on scale is a difficult one. I think you've answered your own question about your mum’s emotional abuse as you would refer it on. Someone will recommend a resource.

@Tbry24 hugs to you. What a dreadful situation with your siblings. I think it's awful that your mum mentions them to you. Are you able to have an adult conversation e.g., please don't talk about them? Or does that add fuel to the fire.

@Spencer0220 wishing you calmer waters

@SplendidUtterly thank you xx

@AttilaTheMeerkat simply dreading to think what the morons have done.