Is this abusive? H and DC

[westofnarnia]

Got home tonight after the millionth episode of 'd' H sulking on a nice outing with the dc and i feel incredibly bleak. I would really appreciate a sense check on what happened. I have been in therapy for a while trying to decide whether our marriage is over for several reasons. One of the main ones being how he cannot rein in his moods around dc, and how I have become accustomed to walking on eggshells.

We went out for dinner at his suggestion after dc had a long school day (start at 8, finished afterschool at 5.30). dc is 9 and i suspect becoming a little bit hormonal as she is more emotional these days). Everything seemed fine then we started talking about the Narnia audiobooks dc is listening to that she got for xmas, and i inadvertently gave a 'spoiler' that involves some death, about the last book (sorry-- i dont want to give a spoiler again!) Dc got upset that this death happened and got a little bit teary, i felt terrible, but it opened a good conversation about how CS Lewis was religious and so believed in God and the afterlife and this inspired many of his books, and also that children's books were a little different in the old days perhaps because they were written during/after WW2 when children had to be more comfortable with scary ideas like death (I'm a historian and dc loves history so we do tend to get into these chats.)

Meanwhile H is there and i can tell a sulk is coming on. He's pissed off dc has acted this way, wont get involved in the conversation, tells dc to stop crying and 'acting ridiculous' and says she's being 'a baby'. When her food comes he's still pissed off and tells her she is eating 'like an animal' (she wasn't.) Then in front of her he said to me 'she's ruining this'. I stuck up for her which tends to make it worse. He walked off in front of us all the way home and has just told me that he's not pissed off and I'm the one acting weird.

Writing it out, i know it sounds bad. And it is. But it is also very normal for him. He's had scenes like this on holidays and meals out and at home and when his mood takes over he can't rein it in for dc or me. Often leads to a blowout argument which i try and diffuse if dc is there but he will then shut the door to our room and raise his voice/swear anyway. He cannot tolerate normal dc behaviour. When she was a toddler he would get angry if she was afraid of the dark or if she acted crazy during a long movie. We have clashed over it so many times. He has no patience. Even his mum tells him 'she's just a kid'. He is too strict when i'm not around and i dont really like leaving them together for that reason sometimes. I was out for 2hrs working the other day and by the time i came back he had confiscated her nintendo because she didn't get dressed fast enough.

He has a lot of resentment toward me because i had a short emotional affair which i confessed to quickly, in a very dark time in our marriage during covid when we had a separation, and i know this and i have apologised so many times but i now just think we might be done. I am tired of him ruining a nice evening out or whatever. Me and dc had the chat about the book, moved on, and had a nice dinner. He chose to seethe and get more worked up.

This isn't right, is it?

That first step is the hardest OP.
Booking an ArBNB so you can get organised is a good idea.

Please think about bills and passwords especially for your bank account, car insurance, phone , iCloud etc change them so he can’t effectively lock you out and make things very difficult for you.
If you don’t have your own bank account open one and get your child allowance and wage paid into it.
Take passports and birth certificates, nhs and national insurance information, things you will need to claim benefits.
I would also tell school and stop him being able to pick dd up from school
This man has shown his nature is malicious so don’t give him access to anything
If you have a trusted friend or family member whose not likely to be persuaded by him reach out to them . Strength in numbers x
stay safe and be happy

Well done!!

Stay strong

Thank goodness you have decided to end things. Keep posting on here, let us know how you are going so we can support you. And if you have a wobble, I will post more of my life story about how an emotionally abusive parent affected me and my brother, to try and help keep you strong!

You've done the right thing. You know in a while when you're away from this abusive man, you will re-read this thread and wonder why on earth you put up with him.

Do you have family members you're particularly close to? Do they live in a different town to you now? I would be very, very tempted to move yourself and your daughter to a new area, so that she's in the right place for secondary school and if possible so that you have some support nearby.

Thank you everyone for the support. I barely slept (on the sofa) last night. This morning, with dc in the next room, H started up the fight again; really aggresssive tone of voice, anger, punching the bedsheet, swearing. He really knows how to hurt me. Said that i 'am not suited to relationships', that me and dd have problems, that i have a problem with men that he 'has had no voice for our entire 7 year relationship', that i'm a liar and gaslighter and cheater, hat we only moved here for me (not his job, which is why we moved- he has had a huge pay rise and promotion while i took a pay cut), then he was trying to force me to say that i value my mum and sisters opinions more than his and if i didnt say that, it was the end of our marriage. Then he was like ' i want you to get out, i dont want to live with you/be married to you anymore'. Of course he didnt know that i had booked this airbnb, and thank god i did. I somehow knew it would all come to a head and it has.

Dd was going to a sleepover so i got her sorted, packed a suitcase with a list of essentials for the next few days and then took her to her friends and came here, to the airbnb. I have it until dd half term and i am considering going back home, potentially for good, that week. i need to think it all through and get some space.

But despite all this being good, right now H's words are running through my mind What if there IS something wrong with me? What if he was a good one i turned bad? All these harmful messages i feel i have grappled with my whole adult life. What if i ruined my and dd chance at happiness and stability? But no, his anger and his actions are his choice. And so i go round and round. but at least i'm not doing that in the same space as him. I'm scared, and feel strangely sad now its happened, but i know its not right for dd to be around someone who is so angry. And he has been doing this since before i cheated. He started sulking the first year we were together. We were on a holiday with my mum and he got angry about something and sulked off and threatened to take a plane home! that was in year 1. Now its year 7. Me cheating didnt cause this. there is nothing wrong with dd. or me. I dont want to justify cheating but i fell for someone else who saw me as a person and accepted my flaws and owned his own flaws and wanted peace and happiness. I still miss him most days. But i know i deserve that, and dd deserves to see a better example.

I think it's hard for you to see what posters are seeing because you've become so numb to it.

Abuse is like that.

Sometimes it takes years to recognise abuse for what it is. That's not a personal failing.

Forget the past and start planning a positive future with you & dd.

At least with him not being bio dad he has no PRR so you can have a proper clean break.

He's not a good one turned bad.

If there was something unfixable wrong with you he'd leave.
If there was something fixable wrong with you he'd be trying to fix it.

He's not done either of those things because there's nothing wrong with you.

He's abusive. He's jumped on your EA as another weapon to use against you.

If there was something wrong with you then he wouldn't be being abusive to your DD. He is. Because it's him.

Then he was like ' i want you to get out, i dont want to live with you/be married to you anymore'.
Give him his wish. It is over, even if you want to work on your marriage he does not. And both sides have to work at it for it to succeed.

Please stop labelling things it is not helpful atm. It really doesn't matter if you think it is or isn't abuse, what matters is you don't like living this way. Stop arguing with him, again it doesn't matter if he is right or wrong. Who cares? Who actually, really cares? The law doesn't. Your work doesn't. Your mortgage provider/landlord doesn't. Your supermarket checkout doesn't. DD school doesn't.

Use this period to plan the legalities of physical separation, and start the divorce application online. Speak to a solicitor to know your legal rights but the actual divorce is very straightforward online, it's the financial and children that need a solicitor. Since she is not his biological child you should focus on the financial side. Is your house owned, any savings from either of you, pensions, who owns the car etc etc.

You have got this. Baby steps

Sounds like you're getting out just in time if he's now punching things. Usually it's things close to you in order to intimidate you...and then, it's your face.

Aggression is never OK in a realitionship.
Normal men do not act aggressively around women under any circumstances unless to protect them from other violence.

So glad you're getting out. I wonder if he sensed you were thinking of leaving. Hense his little tantrum to make it all seem like his idea.

It's good if he thinks it's his idea to end things as hopefully it'll be easier to get away. Of course, he will still likely flip round at some point and make out you are 'destroying the family' or 'refusing fo fight for US' or some similar crap. Because he doesn't expect you'd actually leave him. Just remember he's NOT your family (your child is) and any US there was he destroyed by being an abuser.

Cancel any bills you lay before you leave! And don't forget important items like your child's passport ect...

The good news is op, once you're out, you're out. Have a solicitor deal with the divorce communications. Tell him that's what happening and never to contact you again. Block him on the phone.

Never let him near your girl again. And once you're out, have a serious chat with her about how you left him because he is a a bully and we should never stay with bullies. That the people in our lives should be kind. That we should never try to win over bullies, we should just run from them. Fast and far.

Consider taking the freedom programme online. It's pretty inexpensive and is a great help to people leaving abusers.

There is nothing wrong with you and everything wrong with him.

“ When she was a toddler he would get angry if she was afraid of the dark or if she acted crazy during a long movie. We have clashed over it so many times. He has no patience.”

Read what you wrote. How abnormal is that? He objects to her chatting, he tells her she eats like an animal —- bloody hell, OP that is so cruel and abusive. I know it seems like climbing Everest but you need to get yourself and your daughter away from him. He is doing so much damage to you both.

Nah, no matter how awful you are (you’re not, but for arguments sake) it doesn’t justify being awful to a child does it? So he can’t be that good.

he could also leave if you’re awful. He could try constructively to change you or your relationship, and he could a manage how he responds to your awfulness. He’s not doing those things, he’s just screaming at everyone about how he’s a victim, verbally abusing you and rewriting history.

obviously it’s natural to question yourself (would he though?..what does that say about the difference between you both?) but of course that’s why he said it. It’s useful for him if you doubt yourself. If you think you’re a victim of his abuse, you lose a lot of power and vindication with that if he screams about how he too is a victim. If you’re worrying about your behaviour, and trying to behave better, or justify yourself, there’s much less time to think about his behaviour. If he convinces you there’s a huge list of things you’ve done wrong, then any time he’s done something wrong he’s only making you even isn’t he, and it wouldn’t be fair for you to get annoyed if you’re even… it’s very clever but it’s a lie.

Regardless, I’ve met some awful people in my life, always managed to not punch anything or call their kids names.

Also OP, can you please stop beating yourself up about this "affair"? From what you say you didn't have sex with this man, and it sounds as if you very much needed kindness and emotional support. You were not just fooling around for the sake of an ego trip.

Hi @westofnarnia

I ended my 21 year relationship (14 married) to a man who sounds very similar to your H, except his aggression was directed at me rather than the 2 DC (who are his kids). He never shielded them from his abuse of me though- they had a front row seat. I ended the marriage in November 2022. Mine was extremely emotionally abusive, physically threatening (smashing things, pushing etc) and on a few occasions throughout our marriage it escalated to physical abuse.

I desperately wanted my marriage to work. I was brought up a Catholic and though I’m very much lapsed it certainly coloured my view how much I should tolerate far more than I realised. My parents are also financial unstable and very emotionally immature - I desperately wanted my kids to have the kind of comfortable middle class life I saw my friends having and craved. And they did - H and I are both lawyers, we had a nice house, a beach house, holidays on the Amalfi coast. My life looked lovely from the outside. So I stayed. My DS 9 is now in therapy for what he experienced during our marriage. The therapist said DS has everything he could wish for materially but he is traumatised by what he has experienced. You can imagine my shame.

Please stop beating yourself up about your “affair”. One, it sounds like you were separated so it’s not even an affair. Two, you’ve been emotionally starved and someone showed you love and kindness and you responded. You are human. The only person who should be ashamed of their behaviour is your H. The catalyst for me finally ending my marriage was meeting an old high school boyfriend for dinner - by chance we happened to be in the same European city (I live in the southern hemisphere so the odds of this are vanishingly small). He was so kind, and looked at me with such love and fondness, it really brought home the reality of my bleak and loveless marriage. I went home and ended my marriage 4 days later. I am now in a relationship with high school boyfriend. I didn’t cheat, although ex H thinks I did. I really struggled with the guilt and shame of this, bc I felt HS bf was the catalyst for the end of my marriage, and have had a lot of therapy to process it (and everything else!). My therapist said to me “was he the catalyst? Or did seeing him and how he treated you (vs ex H) shine a light on the state of your marriage?” I’m not sure the two are so different but it made me feel better about it.

@westofnarnia I posted ^ bc I’m tapping out on my phone and my kids keep interrupting me and I was worried I’d lose it 😂

Anyway what you said about worrying that you are the broken one, not H. You are and you’re not.

We are all broken people, works in progress. None of us are perfect.A loving partner will meet us where we are. With DP, he just totally loves me - I don’t need to earn his love, defend myself against criticism, I don’t feel like I need to change myself to deserve his love. He just loves me as I am. When I am stressed about something he calms me down, he is my safe harbour. The difference between this relationship and my marriage is night and day - like coming into a warm house after a day outside in a blizzard.

Re my ex - I knew how he treated me was not ok but I really only started to process the enormity of his behaviour and acknowledge to myself how bad it was once I left (and once I started telling people about his behaviour and seeing their reaction). I suspect you will be the same.

In terms of the affect on my kids - I regret not leaving sooner but I’m also glad I left when I did. DS was 8 and DD was 4.5. If I’d waited another 5 years I think the ability to undo some of the damage would have been lost.

It doesn't even sound like you really did cheat on his tbh @westofnarnia. I'm glad you're leaving but I don't think that you should carry any guilt for "cheating".

Leave. Life should not be miserable & negative and it always will be for you & dd if you stay with this man.

OP why are you blaming your self ?
You didn’t damage this marriage. You didn’t have an affair, you spoke to a man and formed a friendship whilst you were separated that’s very different .
Your H has gaslight you so much you question everything x
Stay strong and stop being drawn into his mind games. Watch your child finally relax away from him - I think it will be an eye opener for you x

When he opens his mouth, he doesn’t think ‘I’ll tell you what I think’ he doesn’t think ‘what’s true here’. He thinks ‘what can I say that will hurt her’ and then he makes up whatever he can think of that fits that brief. Nothing he says is real, nothing is true and nothing is about you, it’s all about him. You need to ignore everything he says. I wish you so so well in your new life where your dd doesn’t have to live with someone who is angry at her for existing.

Stay strong today OP.
Remember to take any important documents with you , change passwords etc before you leave.

How are you doing today? Thinking of you 💐

Well done for taking the first steps @westofnarnia Stay strong and don't fall for any of his tactics to entice you back home. He almost certainly will try to make you feel guilty and sorry for him, love bomb you, etc. But you've done the hardest part by leaving. Keep on keeping on.

The sad thing OP is - try to look at the future and your daughter may choose a man like this because it's all she knows.

So - this is your chance to show her it's not okay before she goes down that path herself.

You know what, I really do object to the level of shittiness from some of the people on this thread who are basically shaming OP over the situation she is in and in relation to her daughter.

I get it, I really do, but to ALL of you who are making comments like that, you have absolutely NO idea how this kind of situation plays out and the dynamics involved. Try having a bit of empathy.

OP clearly came on her asking "is this abuse" - she didn't even bloody know! Does that not tell you something about her state of mind and why she's stayed so long? That perhaps she was made to feel that this is normal behaviour and clearly thinks that some of this if not all of it is her fault?

Yes, when you know better, you can do better and that's great, but in the meantime button it please to all of you making shitty comments from your ivory towers that are meant to make this woman feel bad. Do you not think she already feels bad enough? This should be a place of support, not of judging and shaming someone who is themselves being abused for "allowing" her daughter to be abused.

I don't care what anyone says, if you haven't been in her situation, you have no say on the matter.

hi all. this weekend has been extremely tough. i've been swinging from panic, to calm, to sadness and happiness. the airbnb is really nice, though dd cried when i told her we were going and she says she just wants to be at home. i explained to her that grownups shouldn't make children feel sad or scared and that sometimes it's better for grownups not to be together, and i said we could talk about it more whenever she wants, though she hasnt yet- we have mainly watched movies. H sent me an email saying he apologises for 'failing as a husband and stepdad' and that he did resent me and acknowledged that i resented him too, and that he knew he hadnt acted well and he even said he understood why i had feelings for someone else. the thing is, he has said all this stuff about changing before. in my 30s i really do feel people dont change. if we went back, he would be awesome to dd for a little while and it would peter out - and that would probably really upset me as he always had the capability, he just couldnt be bothered. i remember when we reconciled before, he suddenly would do the bedtime story with all the voices, he would change his tone and be a much more patient version of himself, he would even plan to do stuff with her. but it never lasted. and it wouldn't last now, right? i really do believe that. it makes me sad but he just wasnt the 'dad' for her (or possibly anyone...)
the weird thing is the clarity i have gained in quite a short space of time. i feel like i can be a better mum, and even better at my job, and more 'adult' now if that makes sense, almost like i was anaesthetised before? i used to just feel depressed most of the day, i would go shopping a lot, plan holidays, but i felt like a zombie really for a few years. maybe that was my unhappiness in the marriage. i didnt want to make future plans, i didnt want to push myself, i just became more materialistic and more introverted. i already feel different, not super happy and certainly i'm scared but i do feel like i can seize the day for me and dd. maybe thats big talk for 2 days in but i am holding on to it.