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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this abusive? H and DC

245 replies

westofnarnia · 19/01/2024 01:09

Got home tonight after the millionth episode of 'd' H sulking on a nice outing with the dc and i feel incredibly bleak. I would really appreciate a sense check on what happened. I have been in therapy for a while trying to decide whether our marriage is over for several reasons. One of the main ones being how he cannot rein in his moods around dc, and how I have become accustomed to walking on eggshells.

We went out for dinner at his suggestion after dc had a long school day (start at 8, finished afterschool at 5.30). dc is 9 and i suspect becoming a little bit hormonal as she is more emotional these days). Everything seemed fine then we started talking about the Narnia audiobooks dc is listening to that she got for xmas, and i inadvertently gave a 'spoiler' that involves some death, about the last book (sorry-- i dont want to give a spoiler again!) Dc got upset that this death happened and got a little bit teary, i felt terrible, but it opened a good conversation about how CS Lewis was religious and so believed in God and the afterlife and this inspired many of his books, and also that children's books were a little different in the old days perhaps because they were written during/after WW2 when children had to be more comfortable with scary ideas like death (I'm a historian and dc loves history so we do tend to get into these chats.)

Meanwhile H is there and i can tell a sulk is coming on. He's pissed off dc has acted this way, wont get involved in the conversation, tells dc to stop crying and 'acting ridiculous' and says she's being 'a baby'. When her food comes he's still pissed off and tells her she is eating 'like an animal' (she wasn't.) Then in front of her he said to me 'she's ruining this'. I stuck up for her which tends to make it worse. He walked off in front of us all the way home and has just told me that he's not pissed off and I'm the one acting weird.

Writing it out, i know it sounds bad. And it is. But it is also very normal for him. He's had scenes like this on holidays and meals out and at home and when his mood takes over he can't rein it in for dc or me. Often leads to a blowout argument which i try and diffuse if dc is there but he will then shut the door to our room and raise his voice/swear anyway. He cannot tolerate normal dc behaviour. When she was a toddler he would get angry if she was afraid of the dark or if she acted crazy during a long movie. We have clashed over it so many times. He has no patience. Even his mum tells him 'she's just a kid'. He is too strict when i'm not around and i dont really like leaving them together for that reason sometimes. I was out for 2hrs working the other day and by the time i came back he had confiscated her nintendo because she didn't get dressed fast enough.

He has a lot of resentment toward me because i had a short emotional affair which i confessed to quickly, in a very dark time in our marriage during covid when we had a separation, and i know this and i have apologised so many times but i now just think we might be done. I am tired of him ruining a nice evening out or whatever. Me and dc had the chat about the book, moved on, and had a nice dinner. He chose to seethe and get more worked up.

This isn't right, is it?

OP posts:
perfectcolourfound · 19/01/2024 17:01

Yes it is abuse.

But even if you're aren't sure of that - don't get caught up with the definition. Instead - does he make you happy? Is he a great dad? Is he loving, supportive, caring, calm, patient, respectful?

No he isn't. So you shouldn't be with him. And your DD DEFINITELY shouldn't.

Yes you can turn it around for her. My youngest was the same age when I left an abusive situation. Best thing I ever did for them. Now all adults, I have lovely children and a lovely relationship with them. And they know not to stick around if someone is cruel to you.

Elfyny · 19/01/2024 17:01

If you're in doubt, please read this again:

She wet the bed last year when we were having an argument in the other room

That is not normal. Some parents argue. But it is not normal for an 8 year old little girl to be so scared that she wets the bed.

You're not the crazy one, by the way. It sounds like he targeted you when you were incredibly vulnerable, got his feet under the table and now gas lights you about everything so you don't know which way is up. We can see it clear as day because lots of us have been there and escaped. Your other man could see what was happening. Your family can see him. Is there anyone in real life you can trust enough to tell them what's happening in your home?

Imagine you and your dd live together in a little flat. You pick her up from school, you get home and you close the door behind you. Your quiet, calm, safe home. You are safe. Dd is safe. Nobody is going to call her a cry baby, or take her nintendo off her because she took a little too long getting dressed. Nobody is going to twist your head up in knots and tell you that you're the problem.

Not having a father figure is 100% better than living with a monster.

Xmastime2023 · 19/01/2024 17:02

You can leave a relationship for any reason there doesn’t have to be abuse.

GreatGateauxsby · 19/01/2024 17:04

westofnarnia · 19/01/2024 16:43

Is it definitely abuse, if i have hurt him in the past, eg with the emotional affair? I know deep down he has always been like this sulky and angry, but i also know i made him worse and he resents me and doesnt manage those emotions well. I keep thinking: is it definitely abuse?

Yes… it’s definitely abuse

you should not have to live like this.
no one should.

he is abusing you and he is abusing your daughter.

In fact, it doesn’t even matter whether it’s “abuse” or not - give it any name you like.

As a mother have a duty to protect your child.

You currently have her trapped with a man who telling her she eats like an animal acts like a baby and she has to creep around her house in a state of permanent anxiety / walking on eggshells.
while you are there next to her anxious unhappy and walking on eggshells.

Honestly- who cares what it’s called???

get out… remove your child from this.

you can leave a relationship because he comes home with a haircut you don’t like/ you hate the fact he listens to the smiths/ the way he breathes irritates you.
It’s doesn’t have to be violent abuse.

Borris · 19/01/2024 17:05

OP. I thought people would think I was nuts for leaving my XH. Turns out no one was surprised and many had seen through him.

You've still got time to turn this around for your dd. Mine was 8 when I left. Nearly 6 years on she's doing great. Has some counselling which is helping with unresolved issues.

Good luck x

pickledandpuzzled · 19/01/2024 17:09

Basically no one is allowed feelings except him. No one is allowed attention except him. He will suck all the oxygen out of your life. I’m not surprised you sought emotional validation elsewhere.

Your poor DD. She’s learned some bad things.

MILTOBE · 19/01/2024 17:10

@Endoftheroad12345 He didn’t view himself as a co parent with equal responsibility for childcare but he would deign to “help” me by taking them to the park for an hour on a Saturday morning and think he was dad of the year.

Did he take them to the park so that you could do the shopping or clean the house?

Patrickiscrazy · 19/01/2024 17:10

Wow, OP. Just that, really. And to think you are the one and only who can change this situation for yourself and your daughter. You see, my (biological) father was a similar pig as your husband. My narcissistic mother largely ignored it. However, at the end I was "lucky", moved to another country and married a reasonable man. Please, don't let your daughter experience this, she is powerless at the moment. Good luck. X

Topjoe19 · 19/01/2024 17:10

OP the time for crying has long since passed. It is now time for action. You cannot stall or make excuses. You must leave for the sake of your DD who will grow up to have her own issues if you don't take action. Break the cycle & leave this bully. You must do it. No time to waste.

Quartz2208 · 19/01/2024 17:10

westofnarnia · 19/01/2024 16:43

Is it definitely abuse, if i have hurt him in the past, eg with the emotional affair? I know deep down he has always been like this sulky and angry, but i also know i made him worse and he resents me and doesnt manage those emotions well. I keep thinking: is it definitely abuse?

First off nothing justifies this so yes it is abuse

Sevondly it is your daughter who is suffering the most and she has done nothing to him. It is only going to get worse as she gets older. She needs you to step up now and make a life just the two of you away from this abusive father and husband

MILTOBE · 19/01/2024 17:13

You'd separated, so it wasn't an affair. It was a short relationship that is absolutely nothing to do with him.

Banquet · 19/01/2024 17:26

You’ll be failing your dd by staying with this abuser, please leave him and the good thing is he doesn’t have pr so she won’t have to have contact with him.

IHateLegDay · 19/01/2024 17:34

All your posts are about how YOU feel. What about how your dd feels?
That poor innocent child is bullied on a daily basis and her mother is allowing it by refusing to remove her from that situation.
Leave. Just fucking leave him. You know better than this.

MsPavlichenko · 19/01/2024 17:45

It is abuse, you know that really. Do the Freedom Programme, online if necessary. If you have already done it, do it again.

The best thing you can do for your DD is to leave this relationship. She’s nine, don’t wait any longer. She’s suffered and is suffering enough. Every day you wait does more damage. It’s the best thing for you too.

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 19/01/2024 18:30

People will think i am nuts to leave him.

Who cares what people think? He's vile. Leave him and have the quiet peaceful life you and your DD deserve. You DD is just about to hit puberty you need to get her far away from him during what will be a vulnerable time for her.

You don't need to have any reason to leave him other than you want to.

Please just go.

Bumblebeestiltskin · 19/01/2024 18:34

So she's not even his? Then take your poor daughter, leave him, and don't make her suffer any longer x

PurpleSparkledPixie · 19/01/2024 18:45

She wet the bed last year when we were having an argument in the other room.

Stop with the handwringing and excuses. Your young child was so fucking terrified that she wet the bed. Can you imagine being that terrified? Go on, imagine it. How much fear would it take for you to wet the bed? Then imagine your mother knowing how terrified you were and ignored it for at least another year. How do you feel now, in that terrifying pit of darkness? That is what you are putting your daughter through every fucking day.

Go to your GP and tell them you need help leaving an abusive marriage. Tell your therapist you need help leaving an abusive marriage. Talk to Women's Aid and Refuge that you need help leaving an abusive marriage. Go to Citizens Advice and tell them you need help to leave an abusive marriage. Talk to your mother and say you need help leaving your marriage, you don't have to say abusive here. But whatever you do, do NOT do nothing.

Chaiandtoast · 19/01/2024 18:51

yes it’s abuse.
but for arguments sake let’s say it isn’t actually defined as abuse.
so just because in this hypothetical scenario you don’t have the abuse label, do you HAVE to stay? Or are you still allowed to leave?
even if it isn’t abuse, do you think it’s ok for someone to treat your daughter as he is? Is it ok for her to be so scared she wets the bed? If it wasn’t defined as abuse would that make those things ok? no of course not. Even if it’s ’not Bad enough’ to be abuse even if he doesn’t hit you, that’s still not ok is it.

if you hurt him with an affair (emotional affair during a time you weren’t even with him isn’t an affair btw, even if he says it is), is he allowed to punish you forever? Is he allowed to punish your daughter forever? No of course not.

NicholJO · 19/01/2024 18:54

Op I posted on your thread yesterday.

I didn't go into any detail about my nice but here's a little insight. before I took her in I didn't know the extent what was happening at home. Her dad seemed a lovely family man. It wasn't until my sister had to spend a few days in hospital I found out. My nice came to my house for dinner while he was busy. She was so withdrawn I spoke to her asked if everything was OK. It took me 2 days off gently talking to her to find out what's happened. Then the floodgates opened she told me her dad was sulking all the time. He would take the piss out of her interest. He rarely spoke to her without him sounding snappy or iratated even when she's only just got home from school. I could tell you so much more but in all honesty I think you know what you need to do so you and your little girl are happy. Ps my nice was 10 then she's now an amazing 13 year old I couldn't be prouder off her

CBStrike · 19/01/2024 19:03

Your daughter will leave home as soon as she can if you stay with him. Get out and protect her.

Twolittleloves · 19/01/2024 19:05

westofnarnia · 19/01/2024 16:43

Is it definitely abuse, if i have hurt him in the past, eg with the emotional affair? I know deep down he has always been like this sulky and angry, but i also know i made him worse and he resents me and doesnt manage those emotions well. I keep thinking: is it definitely abuse?

But maybe think about why you felt the need to have an 'emotional affair' in the first place?
And even so, whether its abuse towards you or not, he is sure as hell being abusive towards your daughter.
You can change things so much for her, and lessen the long term damage considerably, if you take the leap and don't go back.
You and her deserve better.

pinkyredrose · 19/01/2024 19:05

westofnarnia · 19/01/2024 16:43

Is it definitely abuse, if i have hurt him in the past, eg with the emotional affair? I know deep down he has always been like this sulky and angry, but i also know i made him worse and he resents me and doesnt manage those emotions well. I keep thinking: is it definitely abuse?

How the hell do you make him worse? He already was a cunt. Sadly it looks like you've been conditioned to see abusive behaviours as normal.

Please look at the website 'entitledto' and speak to women's refuge, they will help you. You and your daughter are both being abused.

caringcarer · 19/01/2024 19:09

Tip toeing around on egg shells and being worried about leaving your DC alone with DH is really no way to live. Life must be miserable for your DD she probably worries whenever you go out and leave her with this bully. I'd think carefully about if you and DD would be happier without him.

Runnerinthenight · 19/01/2024 19:19

westofnarnia · 19/01/2024 16:43

Is it definitely abuse, if i have hurt him in the past, eg with the emotional affair? I know deep down he has always been like this sulky and angry, but i also know i made him worse and he resents me and doesnt manage those emotions well. I keep thinking: is it definitely abuse?

That most likely would never have happened if you had been happy in your marriage. You need to forgive yourself. Please do the right thing by your DD. He doesn't sound like he even likes the child and as he's not her bio dad, then she doesn't ever have to see him again. Reclaim your lives. He's poison.

Mrsgreen100 · 19/01/2024 19:21

please Do not underestimate the effect your partner’s behaviour will have on your daughter,
know it’s an overused expression but sounds like a covert Narcissist, very like my ex husband I put up with same crap for years gaslighting controlling by his moods anger and sulks and lots more .constantly walking on egg shells and being made to feel everything was my fault.
the impact on our daughter is heart breaking
now in her 20,s
wish I had seen the truth sooner
and got far away
Guessing u had an emotional affair for that very reason
don’t waste your or daughters life on this kind of man