Do I want to marry a former priest?

[jotex]

I know, I know, only I can answer that, would appreciate some advice from MNers.

I moved to a European city in 2020 (pre-Covid) for my Masters. In September of the same year I met a guy; smart, funny and very handsome…but also a Catholic priest. We met at an event for English people living here, hit it off straight away and ended up kissing that night. (Nothing too raunchy but he was in his priestly getup, so it was different). We kept in touch and started seeing each other for coffee, museums, shows etc. Basically dates without actually calling them dates!

Fast forward to the following year and he announces that he is leaving the priesthood. We started officially dating not long after this but he maintained and still maintains that he didn’t leave for me. He was able to walk into a great career almost right away, doing the exact same thing he did previously when he was a priest, in the same city.

Fast forward some more, things get more serious between us, we start to meet each others families, friends etc and eventually move in with each other in August of last year (still in the same city).

We recently started talking about moving back home and settling down. In my mind this is a pretty big step in the relationship. I love him, he ticks all the right boxes for me and we’re on the same page in many respects but with this potential plan on the horizon I’m starting to think some more (and don’t know if I’m overthinking).

He has basically lived his entire adult like in an institution/seminary, so has never cooked, never cleaned, doesn’t know how to iron clothes etc (he’s 36 fwiw, I’m 28). Emotionally he is very cold. Sex is boring and he has lots of hang ups. I’m not sex goddess but 99% of the time it’s just doggy, missionary and CIV (in that order). Also while no longer a practicing priest he is still legally (in the eyes of the church) a priest, and still has a long legal process to deal with, but it’s all internal church politics and not really a problem at all, my anxiety just doesn’t let me accept that.

The thing that’s really been on my mind lately is his being so adamant that he didn’t leave the priesthood for me. Within three weeks of him leaving we were official. Now I’m wondering what’ll stop him from doing the same with me down the line after we’ve settled down, had kids etc. Have genuinely never thought of this before now and don’t really know where it’s come from except for anxiety etc.

We’re still a long way off marriage, but things are going in that direction. I do really love him, but I don’t know if I’m seeing the full picture.

any advice!? Do I listen to these little things nagging at me, or how do I ignore them?

thanks MN!

thanks for reminding me/saving a scroll up - I saw it all. The only reason I can think of for removing it is that funny though it was (to me and I am sure many many others) it was maybe a tad insensitive to the OP wanting some serious personal advice. So OP asked for it to be removed? If anyone else complained because of their churchiness and Mnet rolled over, shame on them both. All religion is bunk in my view and most are twisted with regard to sexuality.
May reply to core question in time. Have a certain experience of catholicism sex and priests. For now OP hope you find some resolution and a good way forward.

Catholic here .. I know 2 people who have married former priests, both very happy.

I don’t know any priests who still have a housekeeper, they do all their own washing and cooking.

He’s not “Catholic with a big C” if he’s indulging in pre-marital sex, and using contraception

There are rules around former priests receiving The Eucharist.. so if he’s not actually left (as he’s still going through the legal stuff) not sure how this is happening.

What has he said his reasons for leaving the priesthood are, as he says it's not because of you?
Why did he join the priesthood in the first place?
There's quite a lot to unpick and discuss with him.

Also was he in a religious order and ordained as a priest? You make references to his "community" and I wondered if this was the case - such as Dominicans, Fransiscans etc. Or a Jesuit??
It's a different kind of person who chooses to be ordained in a religious order as opposed to someone who chooses to be a "secular" priest - ie. running a parish, living as part of the wider parish community with friendships within that rather than living in a group with other priests and monks.

I would be more wary of someone who joined a religious order and became a priest than someone who had chosen to go down the parish route.

@iljafjpr yes, he was a member of a religious order

Ok, then only proceed with a great deal of caution.
Something about the idea of life in a religious order, separated from the world, appealed to him and there must be a reason for that.
Also, he hasn't made a clean break because he is still meeting up with others from the order and going on retreats. So he is still searching for something. Being with you is part of that searching.

I would also suggest you research the religious order. Each order has their own "charism" and their own values. He will have chosen one he thought matched up to his values. They also have different lifestyles running a range from a completely closed, silent order to a more worldly order doing a lot of work in the community, possibly living in small groups, rather than in a larger cloister.
It will give you some insight into what he was looking for in the first place.

Priesthood would give you loads of transferable skills. A friend of mine is a former priest. He also walked straight into a job.

I agree. A priest will have a degree in something or other which opens doors.

The fact that this guy is inexperienced in sex and not au fait with household chores makes him no different to many men in the past who lived with parents until married (not the best idea in my opinion but it was common at one time), was a bit shy and didn't have many (or any), girlfriends before meeting the one they wanted to commit to. They learn! It takes a bit of time and communication between the couple has to be worked on but if two people love each other, they will try.

I can understand the employability of former priests. What I was wondering about was this bit about what he did next:

doing the exact same thing he did previously when he was a priest,

Teaching, youth work, charitable services, perhaps?

They are also often quite good at administration and financial work. It all depends what sort of degree they have but a lot of priests are well-educated and qualified; they could easily have been successful in another sphere had they not decided to join the priesthood. I would say that is particularly the case in religious orders. I've known a couple of ex-priests, one was a physics graduate and the other, law.

Many priests go to seminary straight from school, it's almost like a conveyor. It's not that strange to find some who decide later it's not for them. Many non-priests change their career and life as well. It probably takes a lot of introspection to make such a big change.

Is he right for you? Who knows. This place is full of people who've met 'the one' only to divorce. I wouldn't say my husband was amazingly passionate when we got together but the neither was I probably, but we'll over 30 years on I wouldn't be without him.

@ExtraOnions

He’s not “Catholic with a big C” if he’s indulging in pre-marital sex, and using contraception.

The vast, vast majority of Catholics use contraception. And the papal theological commission set up to investigate the question back in the day also spoke out in favour - it was just the boors in the hierarchy that went back on it. I have yet to meet a single serious theologian who doesn't think rhe distinction between "natural" and what, unnatural? contraception is a crock of shit, it's worth of Gwynneth Paltrow.

I bet from reading the OP that her bf is an ex-Jesuit. Which makes me rather relaxed about the "emotional coldness." I know several ex-Jesuits. Theyre lovely people, but often quite cerebral, which can give an impression of coldness.

As other posters, however, I would be concerned about both the intimacy and the household angle,.and in OP-s place wouldn't have rushed to move in together. I would try and tackle both in direct discussion. You can agree to work on rhe intimacy- he'll be used to doing spiritual type retreats so should be open to questioning and exercises, maybe even something like a tantra workshop/programme ro work through? As to household issues, there must be done courses - even in ironing. Saysa woman who hasn't touched an iron in years - low spin then drip-dry dies it got me.

I reckon an English teacher if they are abroad. Probably initially in a Catholic school who maybe kept him on our if not very ready to get another job as a native speaker

I think people are confusing the Catholic priesthood with the C of E — the only qualification this man is definitely going to have as part of his seminarian training is a degree or diploma in theology, depending on whether he already had a degree in something related. If he has a degree in something else unrelated, it will have been before he entered the seminary. Not wildly in demand.

And yes, if he were a parish priest he would certainly be used to catering for himself, cleaning, laundry. The days of the housekeeper are long gone.

And yes, if he were a parish priest he would certainly be used to catering for himself, cleaning, laundry. The days of the housekeeper are long gone

Not in Europe they aren't.
Anyway, the OP said he wasn't a parish priest but working in an institution, possibly the headquarters of the religious order he was in or whatever, and that there were lots of staff there running around after him.

@iljafjpr this group are quite traditional, and also quite well known. They attract a lot of young couples, new families etc for things like retreats and conferences. OH says he was attracted to the regimented lifestyle when he was younger. Seminary was like military camp, only they prayed.

He isn't a typical example of a member of this group, though, in the sense that he isn't ultra rigid and unbending, and neither are his priest friends who I've met. Plenty of his colleagues however would consider him a traitor now and they wouldn't even look in his direction if they saw him in the street. He has been back to his old institution a few times but the churchy things that he is involved with now (retreats, Mass etc) are largely unrelated.

@GrumpyPanda
I bet from reading the OP that her bf is an ex-Jesuit. Which makes me rather relaxed about the "emotional coldness." I know several ex-Jesuits. Theyre lovely people, but often quite cerebral, which can give an impression of coldness

That was my exact thought. Sounds like a Jesuit!
Apart from the fact he's going on retreats. That's a big part of being a Jesuit - they are permanently on retreat.

I've got a friend who is an ex-Jesuit. Left 20 years ago. He's still as cold as a fish. He's a lovely, nice, polite man and we get on well but he's so cold, no sense of humour, extremely strait-laced. Apparently he's expressed some "interest" in me to a mutual friend who is trying to set us up. Er, sorry, but no... in all the conversations we have had there's not a single spark of anything there and he left the Jesuits 20 years ago and hasn't had a girlfriend (that anyone knows about) since. So I do wonder why he expressed "interest" in me beyond friendship to his friend even though there's no way in hell I'm going to go there.

Surely if he is still very much a believer in the Catholic dogma he must believe his soul is condemned to hell for breaking his vows???

I can't believe how quickly he gave in to temptation - at least Ralph de Briccasart struggled for many years before kissing Meghan 🤔

Thank you for taking time to reply to me!
I feel like I have written rather a lot on this thread and hope I haven't overloaded you.
I work in a particular role in the Catholic church and I have a lot of contact with priests of all kinds. I've done this job now in three different countries for nearly 25 years and also had a contract to work for a religious order for a while so I know quite a lot through work about the various orders but also through work in various parishes.
I think you have a difficult decision ahead of you. I get where you are coming from about having anxiety about how the future might pan out. Anxiety is the body and mind's way of saying that something is off and you should listen to it.
But perhaps you could give it some more time to see if he can be trained to be better around the house - plenty of men are utterly shit. I've had two of those and neither of them were ex-priests!
And tell him you aren't ironing for him - he either does it himself or he buys clothes he doesn't need to iron!!!
The emotional coldness is difficult - I'm not sure that would improve with time.

I think he needs counselling from a therapist not associated with the church/the Jesuits/some other religious order. He has a lot going on

If you were to say to him that you would like to separate for 6 months to give him (and you) time to work through what has happened and then reassess, how would you feel about that? Your feelings on that - ie. the thought of being apart for 6 months - might give you an indication of how you feel about staying with him or splitting permanently?

Yes, I think these things would bother me more than being a priest. Some could be worked on (if hes willing). Hes nowhere near ready for marriage.

Assume they start in doggy, then he flips her over into missionary and then ejaculates.

Now I think about it I am quite intrigued that op finds the sex a bit boring. Doggy missionary and CIVV sounds good to me. I hate men’s cum on my body. What would you prefer op?

Well I’m not too far ahead of my OH in the experience camp! Had a 2.5 year relationship at uni which wasn’t comparable at all to this tbh. I was 20 when we started seeing each other. Was fun and I cherish the memories. He dropped out of uni due to family issues and we eventually broke up due to distance.

A few years later and before coming out here I dated someone for 6 months. Was a bit more mature but still very casual. I wasn’t heartbroken when we decided not to see each other again.

When I came out here I didn’t know anyone so was very lonely in the beginning. I decided that I’d try to find Mr. Right while here, but not because I was lonely, more because I was in a new place, with new people, new experience etc. I want to settle down, but still have fun. OH isn’t perfect, and I have a lot to think about, but being with him is fun. I think a lot of people would call us boring, but it works for us.

Nonsense. Many people take vows and after a while, ask to be relieved of them. They go on to lead useful lives in other ways. The Church does not condemn them forever, that is old hat. Things changed after Vatican 2.

To clear up the mystery of what he does - he works in finance! Most of his priest friends are well educated. OH has a PhD.