Do I want to marry a former priest?

[jotex]

I know, I know, only I can answer that, would appreciate some advice from MNers.

I moved to a European city in 2020 (pre-Covid) for my Masters. In September of the same year I met a guy; smart, funny and very handsome…but also a Catholic priest. We met at an event for English people living here, hit it off straight away and ended up kissing that night. (Nothing too raunchy but he was in his priestly getup, so it was different). We kept in touch and started seeing each other for coffee, museums, shows etc. Basically dates without actually calling them dates!

Fast forward to the following year and he announces that he is leaving the priesthood. We started officially dating not long after this but he maintained and still maintains that he didn’t leave for me. He was able to walk into a great career almost right away, doing the exact same thing he did previously when he was a priest, in the same city.

Fast forward some more, things get more serious between us, we start to meet each others families, friends etc and eventually move in with each other in August of last year (still in the same city).

We recently started talking about moving back home and settling down. In my mind this is a pretty big step in the relationship. I love him, he ticks all the right boxes for me and we’re on the same page in many respects but with this potential plan on the horizon I’m starting to think some more (and don’t know if I’m overthinking).

He has basically lived his entire adult like in an institution/seminary, so has never cooked, never cleaned, doesn’t know how to iron clothes etc (he’s 36 fwiw, I’m 28). Emotionally he is very cold. Sex is boring and he has lots of hang ups. I’m not sex goddess but 99% of the time it’s just doggy, missionary and CIV (in that order). Also while no longer a practicing priest he is still legally (in the eyes of the church) a priest, and still has a long legal process to deal with, but it’s all internal church politics and not really a problem at all, my anxiety just doesn’t let me accept that.

The thing that’s really been on my mind lately is his being so adamant that he didn’t leave the priesthood for me. Within three weeks of him leaving we were official. Now I’m wondering what’ll stop him from doing the same with me down the line after we’ve settled down, had kids etc. Have genuinely never thought of this before now and don’t really know where it’s come from except for anxiety etc.

We’re still a long way off marriage, but things are going in that direction. I do really love him, but I don’t know if I’m seeing the full picture.

any advice!? Do I listen to these little things nagging at me, or how do I ignore them?

thanks MN!

All relationships have ‘pros’ and ‘cons’. You just have to decide how important the ‘con’ list is. Emotionally cold and sex life, to me, are both things you can work on.
Communication is key. Tell him when he’s being cold. Teach him what you want from him in the bedroom.

He has basically lived his entire adult like in an institution/seminary, so has never cooked, never cleaned, doesn’t know how to iron clothes etc (he’s 36 fwiw, I’m 28). Emotionally he is very cold. Sex is boring and he has lots of hang ups
You can do much better OP, please leave him.

I think that most people want to have more than one sexual partner in their life so I have to agree with a PP and say he is transitioning and the relationship won't last long term.
I also think he sounds pretty awful to be honest. In my experience emotionally cold people stay that way or at least can revert back to being that way when they need to. And that hurts. He has already demonstrated his ability to detach over the death of your neighbour. I think you'd be crazy to marry him. Sorry.

OP the stand out for me in all this…

”Emotionally he is very cold. Sex is boring and he has lots of hang ups”

I have been with my DH for over 20 years and sex is still amazing. I couldn’t deal with someone who is emotionally cold, either.

Is this really what you want for yourself? Not just right now, but for the rest of your life?

I would be very cautious. He may have left the priesthood but he will have been taught a very sexist and regressive view of female sexuality and the nature of sinfulness which is likely to cause long term damage to any relationship he has unless he has some serious de-programming counselling to process the differences between the theological models he has previously lived by and the reality of a relationship with an actual woman.

Tbh I think it would be better to take him at his word that he didn't leave the priesthood for you, and let him go forth into his new life unburdened by a complex relationship with you. He needs to learn to be himself first, I don't think he will be ready for a healthy functional relationship for at least 2 years. If you try to keep things going I doubt it will end up healthy or functional.

Also, do you know why he became a priest? And a Catholic one at that?
Boring sex
Emotionally repressed
Happy to hug men but entered a world where women had to be kept at a distance.
Lots of hang ups...
I wonder if he might actually turn out to be gay.

All I can think about is Andrew Scott, who could be anything and be forgiven for it as so bloody hot in Fleabag, not helpful I know.

Sorry but it would be a big fat no from me.

His feelings around sex and women will be ingrained and are not actually natural or healthy. Especially if he is still extremely catholic and is involved with the church as much as you say he is.

Also if his lack of household knowledge already annoys you this will rise exponentially once married and with kids.

Morally he feels like he lacks judgement (kissing you on the first time he met you).

I wouldn't want to settle down and make a life with him...

Since joining the seminary he has been taught to be particularly distant with women

And yet within a few hours of meeting you he was kissing you.
Odd that.

If he'd still a practicing Catholic, one who sounds very involved in his faith from what you say (going on retreat etc) your whole relationshipnis problematic and clashing with what the church teaching on sexuality is telling him. Every time he goes to confession, he 'should' be confessing sins such as extra-marital sex, using contraception etc, and he will not be given absolution if he is intending to carry on doing the same thing, which means he cannot receive communion. My uncles I mentioned up thread left the priesthood because they felt they couldn't hear people confess using contraception as a sin and give absolution to it as they didn’t believe it was wrong despite church teaching. This man has joined the priesthood and been a priest (presumably for a while if he's 36 and never done anything else?) believing and teaching these things as wrong, and now he's completely changed his lifestyle. At the very least, it must be a lot for him to process, and it really sounds like he needs to find a way to do that before your long term relationship can work.

The Catholic Church's view of women is problematic. For those of us who are Catholic laity, this is enough of a problem, but to become a priest he must at best have never really thought through or questioned these ideas, at worst completely agreed with them. It's a mindset that may make relationships difficult in the long term. I would also be wary of guilt about his sexuality, and ultimately coming to blame you for decisions he has made but isn't comfortable with.

@jotex

has never cooked, never cleaned, doesn’t know how to iron clothes etc (he’s 36 fwiw, I’m 28). Emotionally he is very cold. Sex is boring and he has lots of hang ups. I’m not sex goddess but 99% of the time it’s just doggy, missionary and CIV (in that order).

Perhaps consider putting the brakes on - what you've said above is quite a challenge in a serious relationship, even before taking account of him completely legally separating himself from the church. He needs to live in his own for a good while, and to learn who he really is deep down and also to take on the chores l, domestic and otherwise, he's not needed to whilst in the church and perhaps undertake some therapy for himself for his "hang ups" you mention, any emotional negativities.

I'm glad you say you're a long way from marriage - it's all moving too fast. You say:

I was the catalyst, I suppose, that made him finally cross the door. Just not sure what or how I feel about this. What's to say there won't be another in the future.

I'm unsure I'd want to be a catalyst for someone to change their lives so drastically - what a burden to carry in a relationship. 🌹

Only if it’s the priest from fleabag.

Sorry I’m not being helpful.

He has basically lived his entire adult like in an institution/seminary, so has never cooked…

He may not be able to make spaghetti bolognaise, but I bet he can do a great spread of crackers and wine.

@howdoesyourgardengrowinmay I also want to know what @titchy said! I want to nearly choke on a sausage roll and spit out my tea!

oh and life’s too short to live with bad sex!

"He point blank refuses to iron for fear of ruining clothes for example"

This is the crux for me, and why you should run a mile.

He is prioritising himself over you, and is happy to throw you under a bus.

Fair enough, he's never learned to iron or whatever, but he's now in a situation where either he learns, or he goes unironed, or you do it. It seems he's gone for option (c) and you're going along with it!?!

If that's correct, he refuses to learn, so you do his ironing for him, just why? Do irons need vaginas to operate them? What the fuck are you doing, debasing yourself for someone who can't be arsed to learn how to not get you to be their domestic slave?

I'm afraid it demonstrates a very poor view from him of your value. Value yourself more, and bin him off.

I am biased on this issue for reasons I can’t go into as it would be too outing.

on the strength of your op I would advise you not to move forward with this man. You don’t know the real reasons he chose to leave the priesthood and I would seek clarity about that. I would also be interested to know about this catholic legal process he is going through.

Although you have known him for a while how well do you really know him? He was wearing his priestly robes when he first met and yet he kissed you (in public?)?so didn’t give a toss about being seen doing so even though it is a violation of his vows as a priest. This could mean that he got a thrill from it or that he is a real risk taker or rebel - both could be red flags in an adult. He will have done this before, perhaps many times. I don’t blame him but it may mean that he can’t commit. He may also have lovebombed you that first night.

His being a priest does not explain why he can’t fend for himself in the real world. I have met/known many who were able to function independently.

The boring sex may indicate that he is actually into sex that is less vanilla and is just going through the motions for now.

Something is niggling at you, which is why you have written for advice which we can’t really give. It sounds to me as though you are waking up. Keep your eyes and ears open and, most importantly, continue to trust your gut and write more posts on here if it helps you to work things out.

Hi Op I hadn’t rtft when I posted - apologies for that.

I would retract what I wrote - apart from the bit about trusting your gut. Perhaps you need to have deeper conversations with him about why he felt he had a vocation in the first place and then why he started to doubt. Was celibacy a hard call for him and if so how did he satisfy that urge before he met you? Did he ever have relationships with others in the seminary? This may be a man whose problem is about more than not knowing how to iron clothes. He may not really know/accept himself.

Honestly, I would ask him to live on his own for a bit, get a lot of counselling and work on himself.

I have had relationships with ex ministers. Sexual hang ups are the absolute worst. But the head of the household model will also run through everything you do.

He needs professional help to work through his feelings and process things. And not with you stepping in as just another nun who does his ironing and domestic work.

When we first kissed we were in public, I suppose, but hardly standing in the middle of the room. I don’t want to go into detail but in my head it was (and still is) romantic and exciting. We were alone, it was dark and we were outside, he leaned in and we kissed. Lord knows I had been giving him all the right signs that evening. I had had a couple of glasses of wine, we were getting on really well and I was just smitten by him tbh. At a certain point in the evening we both just knew.

He often talks/jokes about the fact that practically all of his education was male-only, so he has very little experience with the opposite sex. I’m his only sexual partner and first kiss since joining the seminary and becoming a priest. He is very inexperienced but definitely making up for lost time if that makes sense. I do believe that he hadn’t done what we did with another person. He has said before that on the night the opportunity just presented itself, so he went for it. I’ve never said this out loud, but I suppose I could call it calculated, which feels a little weird, but not in a creepy way.

For the first couple of years he was a regular priest in England but for the majority of his time as a priest he lived abroad and basically worked in an office for the Church. I’ve seen the institution where he lived. It’s a huge place with catering, laundry, cleaners etc everyday. He spent his years training in a similar place too.

He is still Catholic, but maintains that he can be while still loving me. And he often mentions the fact that plenty of priests leave, marry and remain Catholic. Basically I don’t think and have never felt that he has put his faith before me. His family are also Catholic but very normal; they’re not Jesus freaks. I’ve never gotten any feeling from them, and especially his parents, that I got in the way of him being a priest or anything. In fact his mother jokes about how great it’ll be to have more grandkids (she already has 11!)

I’m also Catholic (baptised, confirmed etc) but was never really religious growing up. We didn’t go to Mass etc as a family except for Christmas and Easter. Since moving here and especially meeting my OH I’ve started attending Mass and retreats etc, the latter of which can be nice. Our friend group here is almost entirely “religious” by virtue of the fact that we met either at Mass or retreats, but again, no Jesus freaks. We know more than a few unmarried couples living together. Im definitely not as religious as him but he has shown me a different side to religion that has been mostly nice. I don’t think it would present any huge problems in the future with kids, judging by his own family and our friends here.

OP, I feel like your very romantic, surprising, exciting first kiss is clouding your judgement about the relationship itself. I completely get that such an exciting start to seeing each other was pretty thrilling. However, take a look at where you are now. Emotional coldness from him and a sex life full of hang ups, a complete unwillingness to learn any normal adult independent living skills. None of this is going to magically change with time, or if you get married, or if you have children. Are you happy for this to be your life with this man?

I'm surprised my comment was deleted - it wasn't any more offensive than Life of Brian....

It was a suggestion for the acronym CIV, basically think of nouns beginning with C that would likely only be found in a Catholic Church.

Yeah, mine was too. I think there’s a very churchy MNer who’s in the habit of complaining.

OP what's your relationship history like?

You are talking so much about him, but very little about you.

How did you get here? What do you want for your life?

Hi OP, I've a little insight
I think you need to slow down, relax, concentrate on having fun together

I expect he was already 3/4 out of the door when you kissed so I don't see him leaving the priesthood as being down to you, or flaky

He just needs time to adapt to life outside, he's used to holding his emotions in check, to having rules and ways to do things

@jotex I agree with what @WitcheryDivine said OP! If he can duck out of vows he made to God without loads of soul searching and concluding that his calling was to be a husband and father, not the priesthood, then I'd be concerned that he wouldn't have much qualms about ducking out of any commitment he made to anyone else, even his own children.
I'm a Catholic, so I imagine he's had to go through a lot of discussions with his superiors, like the Bishop or even higher, about this and there is certainly a procedure that has to be followed to leave Holy Orders.
I do remember one of our priests when I was a kid leaving in the end to get married, and it was common knowledge it was because he'd realised he always wanted to be a husband and dad, because he loved kids- in the right way! He was a young guy, really sound actually, warm, approachable and not a hint of anything off about him! Even as a kid I sensed his reasons were valid. He was just "dad material" IYKWIM!
You're saying your man is "emotionally cold" though. This is the real red flag to me! A cold-hearted person isn't a good candidate for Holy Orders but they're not good candidates for love, marriage and parenthood either! TBH, I think him being a former priest isn't the problem! I think the coldness you mention IS though, and could cause you untold pain down the line if you stay with him!