His message to the OW

[BlushTeddy]

Two years ago I found out DH was having an affair lasting around a year.

Long story short we decided to stay together. We have young DC. He begged to stay, didn’t want to lose his family. The usual. We have been having counselling and trying to work through it. It’s been hard but I thought we were finally making progress. Admittedly things are strained sometimes and we’re nowhere near out of the woods but I thought it was still relatively early days.

Then the other day I found a message he’d sent the OW recently, around 2 months ago. No chain, just his so I’m guessing he forgot to delete. So no idea what was said prior. He said he really missed her, but that he was still ‘trying’ to live up to his commitment to me and DC. And it’s been hard but he’s ‘doing the best he can’…. with ‘his decision to stay’.

I haven’t confronted him yet because I’m still processing. Is he just trying to let her down gently and I take it as a good sign he’s at least not starting anything up again? Or does he genuinely just feel like he’s had no choice??

I don’t even know what to think. I thought things were getting better. Now I’m guessing he doesn’t even truly want to be doing this.

It all seems simple when a small bit of it is written down. I’m not trying to convince myself to stay necessarily but to look at this from all angles rather than making a rash decision. In some ways it’s harder a couple of years down the line rather than on first discovery.

it’s also a hard thing to come to terms with, facing the fact that not only has he cheated but he probably, could have loved her, given he is thinking about her all this time later. Sex is one thing but if his heart is elsewhere that’s another.

but regardless I suppose it’s his feelings about me that matter most of all and I don’t want him here out of obligation. Worrying I’m going mad when I feel it.

I may/can understand a one night stand, he/she was as drunk, maybe on a trip, error of judgement etc… we are human after all. What I would never forgive is a one year affair, the deception, the lies, day after day etc… And the worst part is it stopped when OP found out. Had she not this would still go on to this day. His conduct is not a “one time error in judgment” it’s a “many times”, more like a lack of morals, a difference in values. People don’t change, it’s for this reason I would not forgive a one year affair. The deception is just too much.

OP - you are not really trying to look at this from all angles.
You are just repeating - he must still love her, he is only here because of duty.

And most of the people are egging you on.

I am divorced, btw. So I have no reason in trying to get you to stay. But just wanted to say - I don’t think it helps you to go ofer and over this with people who always jump to LTB as a solution to anything.

If you want to actually look at it from all angles - go back to your couple’s counsellor - and have a really raw and open heart to heart with H.
And also - on with your own counsellor - try to explore how you can try to give you H a chance. Maybe the key for you is to realise that him leaving is not the end of the world?
That you would be OK? You need to let go of that fear - it’s poisoning you and any chance for your relationship to get anywhere.

Losing the fear may give you an actual chance to recon next

The victim thing is really just entitlement. He had an affair because he felt he was entitled to do something to make himself happy. But now that he has had to give up that something, he feels sorry for himself. From his narcissistic point of view, he sees it as he has sacrificed something (that he believes he was entitled to) for you, and therefore you should get over your paranoia and insecurity and acknowledge and praise him for his sacrifice. He did that for you. You won. Etc.

Except that's not how it is for you (or anyone who isn't a total narc). He never was entitled to do what he did. He has no right to feel sorry for himself. He isn't a victim or a martyr. He should not expect you to be over it. But he will never see that. He will only ever see himself as being entitled to do things to make himself happy, regardless of who else it might hurt. You, the OW, his children.

@FairyMaclary

“You can’t increase integrity, loyalty and values in someone by meeting their needs.”

This. This with bells on.

Very astute comment indeed and the absolute crux of why anyone on the receiving end of infidelity shouldn’t carry an ounce of blame for any of it, or feel they need to do a ‘pick me’ dance of any kind.

Integrity, loyalty and values are taught by our earlier care givers and life experiences and are our own responsibility. No amount of anyone else running around trying to meet needs or trying to make someone happier will change a person’s core values, they need to notice any deficits themselves and work hard to rectify them personally, or the pattern will continue.
He has to own this and decide what kind if a person he is and what kind of a person he wants to be.

Sorry you’re going through this op. You deserve better. I get why it’s harder to leave now after all that time and effort invested but what if you continue to do this for another year and he does it again with someone else. Cut your “losses” now and move on to someone that loves you, wants to be with you and that you don’t have to keep checking on. For me the context of the message wouldn’t matter, there is still contact two years on, regardless of how it came about or why it’s a huge betrayal and disrespectful.

My question is this, how does he know he is blocked on everything if he hasn't tried contacting her?

Well he has either tried to contact her or I suppose she told him she was doing it, but obviously only recently which makes me think he was doing something to precipitate that.

As someone who did get divorced, I know it’s nowhere near as easy to make that decision to jump as everyone seems to think on here. You have so many things running through your head and it takes years to leave.

Not saying you should LTB, but also don’t let anyone feel that this is what you should have done or must do, and if you don’t it’s only because you’re weak and pathetic.

When you spoke about his affair during counselling, did he give you an explanation that you were able to accept at the time? One year is a very long time, a lot of energy would have gone into the lying and planning. Did he take responsibility for his actions?

@BlushTeddy - have you asked him? Have you had any real conversations about his latest conduct, told him you are back to square one with it all and what conclusions you have come to, or is it easier to suck it up, tread on egg shells at home and try to second guess through MN?

I fully sympathise with your predicament, but one thing about genuine reconciliation after an affair between a couple, is there should be improved conversation, especially an open dialogue about the affair and each others feelings along with total transparency. Sadly it seems you have none of this and are down a rabbit hole as a result. This way of living is not sustainable in the long term as is evidenced by the many comments on your post. Wishing you all the best OP.

It is a difficult decision for sure regardless of whether you stay or leave.

Have you had a chance to talk to anyone irl about all this? Therapist, friend?

How do you feel about a trial separation?

@RantyAnty I don’t think a trial separation would be fair on the kids. Thank you though - and close family but I’m not having individual therapy right now.

he’s away for work this week. I’ve been tempted to contact the OW to try and join some dots but I’m not sure that’s a good idea. I just feel like I’m not working with all the information and he won’t be totally upfront… or it feels like he isn’t.

Im not sure there is any point in contacting other woman as you have no intention of leaving him even if he has been in contact with her all along. Even if she tells you that he contacts her & still loves her (which he appears too) realistically what would you do? I think you need individual counselling to build your self esteem- you so deserve better than he wants to give you.

There isn't any point in contacting OW because there's no guarantee she will tell you the truth.

Contacting ow is a huge gamble. It could either help you or make it worse. It's such a risk - probably not worth making things worse.

I contacted the ow. I was nice. I knew exh was manipulating her as much as me. She was very defensive and angry. She didn't respond in a nice manner.

It was only a couple months later that she actually wanted to speak to me and tell me her side. I wasn't interested by that point and blocked her completely.

@BlushTeddy

Have you had a proper conversation with your husband? Has he said how the affair started? How they met? Who she is? Etc

Has he given a reason why he wants to stay, because he loves you and wants to be a family? Has he given you half arsed answers or does he make it convincing he's staying for the right reasons?

Do yous actually live as a family/couple? Are yous just living side by side or do yous do stuff and seem happy whilst doing it?

I'm not asking you to provide all those answers but they are things to think about.

Regarding contacting the ow, I done it too. I called my partners ex. I'm in Scotland and she lives in England. She told me it wasn't a bad split and I got the impression if it wasn't for distance they would be together. My bf went off his nut with me cause as soon as we hung up she called him. I think you need to be honest with your partner and tell him you don't believe him. Ask him why he's staying, does he loves you? Does he still love her etc tell him it's not normal to still be asking after her 2 years later.

I agree with everyone else, he’s still thinking about her and isn’t taking the counselling seriously. You need to walk away. At the end of the day, if it’s not her, it’ll be someone else as he’s got a wandering eye. LTB and find someone who treats you better.

@BlushTeddy, in the kindest possible way (I've been through this too), it's extremely likely that you will never get the full story.
That would involve an admission of guilt on his part - and from what you've posted so far, you may as well wait for him to be canonised as a Saint....

I so understand wanting to untangle the skein of fucked up ness. Like others have said, she may not tell you the truth either. They had plenty of time to work out their "story" if you called her.

What happens if she does tell the truth and you end up seeing photos of them together messages to her lying about you?

I'm not sure that will help you.

I do think individual counseling might be helpful at this point

He should have blocked her at the time!

Update from me. Apologies for the continuing saga.

I did text her in the end after a couple of glasses of wine 😬 I have been 99% sure I need to leave and I suppose I just need to know I’ve at least attempted to see all sides. Thought maybe given she’s blocked him (if that were true and don’t see why he would make that up. Would have made more sense to say he’d blocked her?) I thought maybe they wouldn’t be colluding about anything.

She was very cagey and said I should talk to him about it but she did say that yes, he had been asking after her and it wasn’t the first time.

She did say though that it was true he never tried to see her or restart anything and that she’d made sure he couldn’t contact her again in any event.

So what… not to worry?! 😂

So what the fuck?? I mean she could be protecting him (and herself!) by saying he didn’t try to restart… but it does fit with the message I found from him. And what he told me when I asked him despite him massively downplaying it!!

How long have I been thinking we’ve been fixing this and he’s been carrying on thinking about her?

Why is he even here then if this is how he feels?? Does he think him just not physically leaving trumps everything else?? feeling good about himself because he’s made some great sacrifice?? Does he not even see how grossly cruel and unfair that is??

Have had to get my mum to come around to help with DCs. Going to have to confront him when he’s back tomorrow. He made out it was a one off thing, an error of judgement. Can’t believe I’ve been so stupid and hoping he was showing he was committed. After everything. And can’t believe I’m back here again.

Just call it a day op. You've got one life so please don't waste it on someone who sees staying with you as a duty and a sacrifice. I have been in your position and can tell you that the peace of mind, once you are on the other side and in charge of your own life again, is really quite wonderful.

@BlushTeddy you sound lovely and at least if you leave now you know you have tried everything you can and can leave with your head held high. You deserve so much more and I think you might be surprised how much better you feel when you're finally rid of him.

I totally agree he's acting like a martyr and as if he is forced to stay in the marriage out of complete duty. I mean this kindly (and don't want to kick anyone when they're down) but it's getting to the stage where you're at risk of doing things yourself? It reads as though you think it's all in his control and that for as long as he stays and 'tries' you're stuck - almost as if you're waiting on him to be the one to end it?

Early on in reconciliation I watched a video about the 80:20 theory of infidelity. I’ll try and put it into your context as far as I can see.

The theory goes that a cheat starts an affair because of a broken part of themselves 20% is missing. Lots of thoughts on why that is missing (validation, FOO, mental health crisis, life circumstances such a grief etc etc) but ultimately they’re selfish and entitled enough to choose an affair to plug that gap. To bandaid that bit.

When dday happens if the cheat is remorseful, they work hard to fix themselves to fix that broken part. They go to counselling, they dig deep to work out why they felt that causing that much pain to someone who loved and trusted them (and who they loved) was their response. That’s remorse.

Being regretful and staying leads to not doing any of this work. It leads to 20% still missing. A hole still there to fill, a broken part still needing fixing. For your husband this affair partner was an effective bandaid. The affair worked for him. He’s now at 80%, he’s chosen to stay because he’s not utterly stupid and can recognise the 80% over the 20% but he’s still broken because he can’t be arsed to do the work to dig deep and find remorse.

I very much doubt it’s about her, I very much doubt it’s a true love/soulmates nonsense. His contact says more about him. It says more about that 20% missing bit.

It says he remains an unsafe partner for you! And that is key. He’s not safe until he does some serious work on himself.

But and I mean this very gently he has had no reason to because you’re not prepared to show him that you are worth fighting for. That you’re prepared to walk. That his pathetic behaviour is not good enough.

I would be a hypocrite if I was to tell you to LTB, (although your husband is grating - all his pathetic martyrdom) I did not and I went through hell before he bothered to actually really work, but once he realised my patience, love and compassion was finite he stepped up and we’ve not looked back.

Its time to show him your teeth!

Excellent post, @Susieb2023