His message to the OW

[BlushTeddy]

Two years ago I found out DH was having an affair lasting around a year.

Long story short we decided to stay together. We have young DC. He begged to stay, didn’t want to lose his family. The usual. We have been having counselling and trying to work through it. It’s been hard but I thought we were finally making progress. Admittedly things are strained sometimes and we’re nowhere near out of the woods but I thought it was still relatively early days.

Then the other day I found a message he’d sent the OW recently, around 2 months ago. No chain, just his so I’m guessing he forgot to delete. So no idea what was said prior. He said he really missed her, but that he was still ‘trying’ to live up to his commitment to me and DC. And it’s been hard but he’s ‘doing the best he can’…. with ‘his decision to stay’.

I haven’t confronted him yet because I’m still processing. Is he just trying to let her down gently and I take it as a good sign he’s at least not starting anything up again? Or does he genuinely just feel like he’s had no choice??

I don’t even know what to think. I thought things were getting better. Now I’m guessing he doesn’t even truly want to be doing this.

If he is staying for the kids, he will leave you at the first opportunity when they are old enough. That is stark, but true. He doesn't love you, he hasn't forgotten her, he is there for the kids. I am sorry to be so blunt but if you do stay, you are short changing yourself.

He stays because it suits him to stay. Not because of OP or the children. If either were a priority the affair would never have started. Perhaps it’s money, the ‘shame’ of running away with OW or maybe she wasn’t available.

The one I feel sorry for is @BlushTeddy. It must be terrible living with this hanging over you constantly, never knowing a minutes peace.

Hes not pretending, hes pretty open he's staying out of duty.. aka an easier life. Maybe the ow didn't want him, maybe he didn't want her enough but he sure as hell doesn't really want you. Even if you could forgive the initial affair the fact that he's asked about her, made contact saying he misses her means that he isn't remotely worried about losing you. He either thinks you are too desperate for him to actually leave or he doesn't care if you do.

Very true, it is ultimately the OPs decision.

It would be sad to see her waste any more precious years on the lying, cheating scumbag though.

That is a bit brutal, given that according to several surveys, 70% of men who were having an affair claimed they were happy in their marriage. It is possible to love your wife and family yet crave the excitement an affair brings, not that this in anyway helps OP who rightly has suffered enough. As already stated, he could just be another selfish weak and entitled man who in an ideal world would prefer to cake eat.

Men don't leave a marriage until they have a replacement lined up. Perhaps whilst OW is a distraction from the daily grind of family life, it is not good enough for OP and nor should it be. Either he is 100% committed to her or he should be out. Totally soul destroying and sadly I suspect OP is adopting the sunk cost fallacy which will blow up with another OW or leaving her in the future. What do you really want OP? Carve your future now, don't be in this position in 10 years time, a mere shadow of yourself.

Don't be too pleased with yourself, no nerves were touched during the making of my comment🤣

This man doesn’t know what love is, he’s an opportunist. He will always be his priority and if that means stomping over the feelings of anybody who has the misfortune to be in his immediate vicinity, then so be it. Counselling is just part of his ‘good guy, at least I’m trying’ narrative.

Don’t tie yourself up in knots trying to figure out what his game is. Focus your energies on extricating yourself from this self centred emotional vampire. This is who he is.

Well this is the thing. I’m worried I’ve been in love with a total sociopath. He knows I’ve been insecure about him leaving since D-day (pathetic I know) because part of me has obviously picked up on the fact that emotionally he’s probably been elsewhere. But he just reiterates that he’s chosen to stay so essentially, why are you worried.

and we’ve been working hard to get our sex life on track which was really difficult for me and yet he’s still been thinking of her and talking to her behind my back. Even if it was to tell her he’s staying. Like what would be the point if part of him wasn’t interested to see if she was still around?

that all feels abusive to me. It is isn’t it?

Not sure it's abusive, just someone trying to scope out a life for himself where the status quo prevails (wife,kids,family home) but looking around for his thrills elsewhere - either in his head for pining for his OW, or seeking a thrill elsewhere. Men can put their lives in neat boxes. You and the kids in one box, the thrills in another. He probably thinks that by staying with you that he has done the right thing morally, but still hankers for a thrill on the side. At some point he will stray again. If he is staying for the kids, he will go when they are older.

Once the trust has gone, it's gone. You could decide that this relationship is enough for you. That you are giving your kids a stable upbringing. But if you do, you need to stop second guessing his motives and next moves, otherwise it will drive you loopy. You will be spending all that time trying to catch him out. That's a long way of saying, except that the relationship you have is all it is ever going to be. Or carve a new life for yourself now.

Well it feels a bit like gaslighting. I can sense he has one foot out the door emotionally. He does (clearly) but then I ask him about it and he thinks him physically staying trumps all else. Like me feeling like he might leave has been all in my head 😕 but it isn’t.

Gaslighting of course. Abusive, no.

@BlushTeddy You can give him (and his behaviour) all kinds of labels and tie yourself in knots psycho-analysising the situation but it won't change the situation.

If you really feel it is as you have stated, what are you going to do about it? Are you prepared to soldier on feeling he is not 100% committed. What are your options?

OP - i think you are in a negative downward spiral. And - as you say ever since D-day you have been insecure about him leaving.
So - matter what he would have done or said - you’d be in this exact place.
It’s hell for you.

But equally it’s not easy for him.

He isn’t gaslighting or being abusive.
He decided to stay and he did.

But your deep unhappiness and insecurity is always there - and eventually your fears will become a self fulfilling prophecy.
No wonder he says it’s been hard. How can he possibly prove something to you when you are too scared to try to believe him.

He is not emotionally elsewhere. He is drained and beaten up.
You didn’t find a smoking gun. He isn’t rekindling or keeping a secret relationship with OW.
But you are treating him as if he had been doing exactly that.
This won’t end well. Unless something changes.

Are you in individual therapy? Have you tried medicines to give you a little help - maybe anti-depressants?

You are twisting yourself into knots looking for reasons. If you are not emotionally strong enough to leave him, maybe you need to find a way to protect your future selves (you and dc).

Start to save. Keep your ID, important documents together in a safe place. Start to work on your self esteem. Make yourself as financially independent as possible.

Then, next time you will be in a much better position to do what you need to do.

You will wish you'd done it now, but that's life.

I can't believe this message! Are you OP's husband?
Of course he is gaslighting ! He tells OP he is there for her but then he is still texting OW after 2 years, not just that, he says he is with OP because of the children!
Where is the love? If he is staying because of the children he might dumped OP after few years for the OW or for a new one.

My dad was a serial cheater and I wish my mum dumped him because a dad does not stop being a dad after separation ( if he is a good dad) but my mum could had gain confidence and independence ( financially and emotionally) from a man who didn't love her or at least didn't love her enough to don't put his dick inside OW.

Please be quiet. You are talking absolute bollocks.

OP, to your question on why he's so intent on staying, so intent on being a martyr - I think the main reason is likely embarrassment.

He's embarrassed he wasn't clever enough not to get caught, he's embarrassed that he can no longer claim the moral high ground, he's embarrassed that he looks like a dick, he's embarrassed that his machinations fell apart, he's probably embarrassed about what he told OW through their relationship about you/your relationship and how he's now had to backtrack and tell her his family is more important, he's embarrassed he's shown himself not to be the "good man" he's always thought himself to be.

He may even be embarrassed that he's caused you and his family pain.

I think this is why his penance is so performative - and it is performative.

He's trying to brazen out his embarrassment - like the person that bows when they drop a plate in a busy cafeteria.

He's doing it to convince you all (as well as himself) that's he's still a "good man", that he "knows what his priorities are".

Unfortunately, because getting over this embarrassment is all-consuming for him at the moment, he's not really stopping to think what it will cost him (and you and your family) further down the line.

Please be careful.

As you and other PPs have mentioned - he needs to be completely honest with both you, and himself - about what he really wants.

I don't think based on his behaviour that he's doing that. And given it's so long after the discovery, this would be a big concern for me.

@DiscontinuedModelHusband thank you. That’s been very helpful. I’d never thought of it like that.

Awesome response there by @DiscontinuedModelHusband - nailed it!

His martyrdom is just looking for sympathy because by playing the victim he thinks he can win points and pull the wool
over everyone’s eyes. It’s a tactic aimed to confuse and deflect. Ultimately by portraying himself as the martyr, he avoids taking responsibility for his actions and choices.

Similarly to Phil Schofield crying all over the front pages of the tabloids, it’s a cover for the real issue.

I sense that you will always struggle to respect your husband. At the moment it looks like like he chose the easy way out but he isn’t fully committed to his choice. He’s a bit pathetic.

No one knows what is in your H’s head -
what he feels, what motivates him.

Majority of people on MN do not believe people should stay and attempt affair recovery. So - these are the majority of comments you are getting.

You decided to try. And it is really hard. And it does require both people to make a huge effort. You don’t just get through by just doing counselling where you talk about your pain and him taking responsibility for causing it - you actually need to make an immense effort to try to deal with your own feelings as well.
(he has to do lots as well - but it’s not about him for now)

If you listen to counsellors who work with affair recovery - they’ll tell you that couples that got through - and didn’t end up miserable - made an effort to look at their relationship; id’d what has led to the affair; have built a new 2.0 marriage.

That isn’t possible to do of you are in a constant place of misery and expecting him to prove to you something you aren’t attempting to believe.

This is why I am saying that regardless of what his actual motivation or feelings are - the way things are - is unsustainable.

You are in a vicious cycle.

Of course it’s abusive. Gaslighting is abuse. Not allowing your spouse to choose if they are put at risk of stds or cervical cancer is abuse. Stealing someone’s years is abusive. It’s thought out, planned abuse. Cheating causes PTSD, it’s just not talked about enough.

Affairs are portrayed as Romeo and Juliet. Eyes meeting across board rooms. Love and thrills and excitement. Because the reality of a spouse (and maybe eventually the cheater) having a mental breakdown/ptsd then children attending counselling and living in poverty due to separation doesn’t sell films/books or tv shows. It’s seen as glamour and excitement.

In reality sneaking around, hiding in shadows like a 14 year old behind a bike shed isn’t a good look. If you are unhappy 1) fix it. 2) accept and make the most of your life together (counselling etc). 3) split up. Three reasonable choices. Having an affair cannot fix the previous issue. It make matters worse. It’s nonsense.

Years ago when a woman was punched in the face by her husband her neighbours, friends, family and the police would come up with why she, the woman, deserved it.
Times are moving on (not perfect) but we don’t usually say ‘Sheilas always winding Derek up, there’s no wonder he hit her, she drove him to it - it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other with that couple ’. This used to happen but luckily times have moved on a bit and peoples understanding has improved. In part ‘Why does he do that’ by Lundy Bancroft helped. So many people have read that book.

You can’t increase integrity, loyalty and values in someone by meeting their needs. Ops needs aren’t being met but presumably she realises shagging the man next door won’t help her situation, even if he’s honest and gives nice cuddles.

Op it doesn’t sound like he ever admitted to you or in counselling that he cheated because he chose to. It doesn’t even look like he has fully admitted what hechas been doing. He still wants to be the good guy in his story. That’s why he is playing he martyr. Until he recognises he was a shit bag and does the work to find out why he is a shit bag he isn’t a safe partner. He is still controlling what information you are and are not entitled to know. He doesn’t want you to have enough knowledge to make an informed decision on your own life. He wants to be the good guy in his story.

Make your own story - you are your
lead character. Get yourself together and strong and ready and then do what you feel is right. You don’t have to say anything to him about what you know.

You know he’s a sneaky, liar and you owe him nothing.

Oh I hear you…. So he’s doing you a “massive favour” by staying with you (and the kid)? All because he’s a “honorable man”? How gallant and ‘kind’ of him. How about informing the husband you’re granting him total absolution from ‘thy hardship ’ as you’d rather be with someone who sees you as an asset not as a burden?

@DiscontinuedModelHusband absolutely. This is why many men don't want their partners bringing up past shitty behaviour/disloyalty. It reminds them that they are indeed 'a bit of a shit'and don't really deserve their partners loyalty. They want to think their partners have totally out it out their mind- which of course is rarely the case. Staying doesn't mean that you simply move on and forget.

Because ultimately he has lied to me again and I’m not sure if this is the last straw for me

are you not just doing what you did the first time, trying to find a way to convince yourself to just stay and take it?