Page 11 | Help me understand what I’m seeing (H’s behaviour related).

FrogFighter · 2023-10-25T20:23:02+00:00

Together for 24 years. Married for 20. DS 15 and DD 19. he left 6 weeks ago. saw his rented house today. bar table in front room with fully stocked beer fridge all black and grey pictures of DJs and music related visuals in black frames on walls one photo of DCs in frame when very small only other photo is of H on stag do 25 years ago with mates ‘joey and chandler’ armchair black leather sofa and big TV FROSTIES in cupboard 24 cans of tango in kitchen polyester 90s bedding with black and white zigzags plans to put a pool table in garage what have I experienced?

FloydPepper · 26/10/2023 16:31

SurprisedWithAHorse · 26/10/2023 14:46

You know, maybe you really do think it's about a frigging pool table. Despite all the explanations for anyone who missed the blindingly obvious. I guess that in your haste to correct everyone on Mumsnet (because that's what any forum of women must need), you actually do go completely blind when it suits you. Perhaps you can't help it.

Now it's even funnier!

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Any reason you’re picking on me and not any one of the many other people (possibly women) who said similar?

SurprisedWithAHorse · 26/10/2023 17:21

FloydPepper · 26/10/2023 16:31

Any reason you’re picking on me and not any one of the many other people (possibly women) who said similar?

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Well my initial post was clearly directed at all the indignant men on here who think a 50 year old man who dumps his family to play the neon polyester field is in fact the victim of the evil wife who won't let him do it without rolling her eyes at his attempts at a 90s time warp. Who think, despite it being explained repeatedly, that it really is just about a pool table. (Do you? Do you really?)

Obviously I knew I'd see you here, but I suppose what got me to respond to your posts ("picking on you" in your world, of course) was the mix of wilful obtuseness and rubbish sarcasm. If it makes you feel any better, I've ignored you about 500 times.

PaminaMozart · 26/10/2023 17:47

Resilience · 26/10/2023 13:50

I'm one of the ones who got it wrong initially. I wouldn't consider myself "obtuse" (or a dude) generally but I totally misread this one. Might be because I picked it up in under active conversations and didn't realise the significance of it being in relationships, plus I had a lot going on yesterday, but that's on me. Having realised how much I misjudged it and having had FrogFighter spell out what she wanted from the thread, I did the only thing that any decent adult would do which is apologise and make a supportive comment. If I'd still really disagreed with her I'd have simply had the decency to stay away from the thread. Anything else is a derailment.

Not sure my opinion is worth much now but I'm actually in full agreement with Frog and many of the other posters supporting her. I've seen many relationships end (both from a personal and professional perspective). Where one person has needed to "find themselves", the common denominator of whether or not they take the kids with them on that journey is their sex. I only know one woman who left her child (and only temporarily). Most women accept that they need to carve out their new existence with their children as a part of it. Many then experience the frustration of not being able to redefine their lives because of structural barriers facing them as parents but they don't generally abandon their children.

If all the mothers of children whose fathers had walked out on them gave up their children to 'find themselves' too, we'd have a crisis. The women would (quite rightly) be charged with child abandonment for dumping their children and yet when men walk out on their DC it's just "one of those things ".

I had a mid life crisis. I changed career. I didn't walk out on my children. When men have a midlife crisis it says a lot that they do. It clearly demonstrates that domestic responsibilities are something they view as a negative that is holding them back and which they have every right to walk away from. I'd hazard a guess that this attitude probably has a lot to do with why they're not getting more fulfilment from their relationship with their partner and children in the first place. Running away and starting a new life is just exacerbating the problem rather than addressing the underlying cause. Which is them and their attitude to overcoming challenges. If men took the same approach to working on their relationships with their wives and children as they often seem able to do with work challenges, life would look very different. But domestic life is constantly devalued (until it's stability is taken away from you at least) or considered an entitlement.

In the long run, this kind of 'freedom' rarely leads to happiness. I see a lot of men settle down with someone new and make the same mistakes. They grow lonely in old age. Occasionally, some have a lightbulb moment and make amends. None of which will undo what the e OP and her DC have been through.

Yes I know not all men are like that and not all women are devoted mothers, but as a trend there's no disputing that women take far greater responsibility for their children than men do in the event of separation.

All of the above ^

But especially this:

Running away and starting a new life is just exacerbating the problem rather than addressing the underlying cause. Which is them and their attitude to overcoming challenges. If men took the same approach to working on their relationships with their wives and children as they often seem able to do with work challenges, life would look very different

💐to you@FrogFighter - you are clearly used to sorting out all the 'life stuff', and you'll sort this mess out too.

FloydPepper · 26/10/2023 17:54

SurprisedWithAHorse · 26/10/2023 17:21

Well my initial post was clearly directed at all the indignant men on here who think a 50 year old man who dumps his family to play the neon polyester field is in fact the victim of the evil wife who won't let him do it without rolling her eyes at his attempts at a 90s time warp. Who think, despite it being explained repeatedly, that it really is just about a pool table. (Do you? Do you really?)

Obviously I knew I'd see you here, but I suppose what got me to respond to your posts ("picking on you" in your world, of course) was the mix of wilful obtuseness and rubbish sarcasm. If it makes you feel any better, I've ignored you about 500 times.

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I’d love to see you post similar about a woman who is deciding to leave her relationship, but of course you won’t do that.

and not all the people you disagree with are men

i disagree with your description of willful
obtuseness but i take rubbish sarcasm on the chin.

thermalvestwearer · 26/10/2023 18:48

I'm autistic. I didn't get it. Really, I didnt get it.

FWIW I left my ex mid GCSEs for one of mine. it had to be done and it was that or stay for 10 more years.

My taste in decor is shit and I eat cocopops.

Lastchancechica · 26/10/2023 20:39

FloydPepper · 26/10/2023 17:54

I’d love to see you post similar about a woman who is deciding to leave her relationship, but of course you won’t do that.

and not all the people you disagree with are men

i disagree with your description of willful
obtuseness but i take rubbish sarcasm on the chin.

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So? He is a first class knob. You are a man and are weirdly persistent with defending this loser. It’s a bit pathetic especially as I imagine he is making the biggest mistake- financially at least he is unlikely to ever recover. It’s probably not going to ever be worth it.

Original poster

FrogFighter · 26/10/2023 20:51

@WoollyBat

“But I would be kind of aghast that he hadn't matured or even just changed his tastes since he was a teen/young man and seems to want to go back to those days. To me it would suggest that throughout the marriage I'd essentially been hauling along someone who looked like a man but was essentially 19 in his outlook and thoughts.”

this! This is what I’m so bemused by.

the museum of 1990s fine art that is his new pad demonstrates how little he got out of the last 25 years. Even if you hate your life and have been miserable forever, you have to accumulate some maturity, just by existing. Hasn’t the twenty first century given him ANYTHING to value at all? Didn’t he learn anything in his 30s and 40s?

I mean, what about the dog? Where’s the picture of the dog? He loved the dog!

OP posts:

SurprisedWithAHorse · 26/10/2023 21:53

FloydPepper · 26/10/2023 17:54

I’d love to see you post similar about a woman who is deciding to leave her relationship, but of course you won’t do that.

and not all the people you disagree with are men

i disagree with your description of willful
obtuseness but i take rubbish sarcasm on the chin.

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You have no idea what I'd do, mate, because the only reason you're here is to whine in a female-oriented space about all the ways you imagine you're hard done by. A 50 year old can ditch his family because he's got bored and thinks the world (and assorted babes) won't realise the last 30 years happened to him too, and all you can do is whine because we're making fun of him for it. You're telling me you'd see anything to counter your sense of victimhood after that? Hell, you think women get an easy time on here? That's not a selective filter, that's a full on blindfold.

You are not the authority this site needs, you are not the truth bringer, you are not our moral tutor and you are not a victim.

WoollyBat · 26/10/2023 22:29

@FrogFighter, I’m glad you saw what I meant and that I wasn’t missing the point after all! And I think this can be both funny and a thing to have a laugh about, and unsettling for you in that way at the same time - yes it’s ludicrous, but also what does it say about the supposed adult you thought you were with?

But maybe he is kind of overdoing it, in a mid-life crisis way, or in a “I’ll pretend to myself my marriage never happened” way to stick two fingers up at you.

btw my comment about polyester wasn’t meant to be serious either. I just meant identifying fibre content is probably not part of his 19yo persona and is something you (as the woman who’s run everything for 20 years) would clock rather than him.

Original poster

FrogFighter · 26/10/2023 22:53

AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside · 26/10/2023 11:02

They've split up. its HIS new home. Its got nothing to do with OP.

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What a donut you are @AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside

i guess you may well be friendly with the other poster on here who automatically assumed H was now ‘funding two properties’.

FWIW, in my OP I asked a question without passing any judgement. I simply said, ‘what have I experienced?’

my experience is absolutely my business. so are my DCs. And the money I earn.

All of which are tied up in some way with my Hs new lifestyle, his new house and his potential mental state.

why on earth would you think this is not my business?

OP posts:

AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside · 26/10/2023 22:58

You dont live there. You dont even need to go in there. Its nothing to do with you how how wants to decorate.

There's no way it can be twisted to be any of your business, however much you want to spin it.

Greenberg2 · 26/10/2023 23:20

AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside · 26/10/2023 22:58

You dont live there. You dont even need to go in there. Its nothing to do with you how how wants to decorate.

There's no way it can be twisted to be any of your business, however much you want to spin it.

I'd agree with you that it's none of her business in the sense that she has no say in how he decorates his house. But the OP hasn't claimed that she should. What you really mean is that she shouldn't have any opinion about how he lives his life.

If you truly believe that then you have no business being on Mumsnet because it's all about people having opinions about what other people say, do or how they live their lives. The most judgy people of all are those that pretend to be above the fray. They are only like that about situations that don't fit their own personal world view.

If she wants to take the piss a bit about the decor, which symbolises how he has left his family so he can airily 'live his best life' she's every right to do so. It's definitely nothing to do with you should she choose to do so.

AmazingSnakeHead · 26/10/2023 23:23

AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside · 26/10/2023 22:58

You dont live there. You dont even need to go in there. Its nothing to do with you how how wants to decorate.

There's no way it can be twisted to be any of your business, however much you want to spin it.

This is hilarious. So men can leave you to look after their children, after criticising you for the life that you jointly chose, and swan off to their new life - but you cannot laugh at them. Even when they do ridiculous things, like dress in fur gilets or decorare their house badly, you cannot laugh at them. Even when they demonstrate that their taste and personality has not developed slightly in the last 30 years, you cannot laugh at them. Well why on earth not? Are you really trying to say that we can't laugh at the men who make our lives harder and then behave in ways that merit ridicule and contempt, because... it's none of our business? I mean, even if this were true, so what - why can we only laugh at stupid things that are "our business"?

Your point is daft anyway. It is the OP's business, because it's the physical embodiment of the world view her ex is inhabiting that lead to the split and instability to OP's chidlren and finances. Under most definitions of "your business" I would class your own finances, who you live with, what your future plans and retirement plans look like, where your children spend the night, and what the person who you spent a quarter of a century married to is like. If that is not your business, then your business is incredibly limited. Also, unless the OP left out the bit about her scaling the walls and breaking in just to have a giggle on MN, she does have a reason to be there. She was picking up her son, and presumably her ex invited her in. The OP isn't behaving like a teenager, and understands that it might be best for her son and his own processing of the split to be allowed to show her around his room, and his dad's house. I guess she should have closed her eyes the entire time, least she see some hilarious shit that isn't her business.

FloydPepper · 26/10/2023 23:51

SurprisedWithAHorse · 26/10/2023 21:53

You have no idea what I'd do, mate, because the only reason you're here is to whine in a female-oriented space about all the ways you imagine you're hard done by. A 50 year old can ditch his family because he's got bored and thinks the world (and assorted babes) won't realise the last 30 years happened to him too, and all you can do is whine because we're making fun of him for it. You're telling me you'd see anything to counter your sense of victimhood after that? Hell, you think women get an easy time on here? That's not a selective filter, that's a full on blindfold.

You are not the authority this site needs, you are not the truth bringer, you are not our moral tutor and you are not a victim.

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You really don’t like me do you

i haven’t whined about being hard done by, I haven’t said anything about me at all. I’m also not in any way trying to be an authority, I’m just one poster with an opinion (shared by others that you don’t seem to have a problem with)

anyway, we’re in danger of derailing the op’s thread by snipping at each other so I’m going to disengage here.

SurprisedWithAHorse · 27/10/2023 08:14

FloydPepper · 26/10/2023 23:51

You really don’t like me do you

i haven’t whined about being hard done by, I haven’t said anything about me at all. I’m also not in any way trying to be an authority, I’m just one poster with an opinion (shared by others that you don’t seem to have a problem with)

anyway, we’re in danger of derailing the op’s thread by snipping at each other so I’m going to disengage here.

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You really don’t like me do you

I'm not taking lessons on sexism from a man who sought out a forum of women purely to complain that it doesn't centre men. Or who thinks a man of 50 is a victim because he gets laughed at when he dumps his family to play the field and pretend it's 1997.

Original poster

FrogFighter · 27/10/2023 08:41

AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside · 26/10/2023 22:58

You dont live there. You dont even need to go in there. Its nothing to do with you how how wants to decorate.

There's no way it can be twisted to be any of your business, however much you want to spin it.

if you say it enough times then it might be true one day.

OP posts:

Guesswho88 · 27/10/2023 12:15

FrogFighter · 26/10/2023 22:53

What a donut you are @AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside

i guess you may well be friendly with the other poster on here who automatically assumed H was now ‘funding two properties’.

FWIW, in my OP I asked a question without passing any judgement. I simply said, ‘what have I experienced?’

my experience is absolutely my business. so are my DCs. And the money I earn.

All of which are tied up in some way with my Hs new lifestyle, his new house and his potential mental state.

why on earth would you think this is not my business?

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Unless you are paying for his new pad it is NOT your business. I don't think it's very nice to call @AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside a donut for stating the obvious.

Original poster

FrogFighter · 27/10/2023 15:04

So the thread is dying. A circle of misogynists are rallying themselves like vultures ready to pick over the bones of the woman who dared to question a man - and call someone a donut.

Yesterday, this thread was alive and funny - it did me so much good.

But now interest is waning and it's just the vulutres that are left to 'teach that woman a lesson'.

Men are beyond reproach.

Women must be put in their place.

The Tate bots out in force.

Thanks for the laughs and the wisdom @AmazingSnakeHead@SurprisedWithAHorse@WoollyBat@Resilience

And for the others who managed to join in with a bit of anonymous piss taking before a few others decided that women should just STFU when it comes to their husbands of 25 years.

And mind their own business.

(And he IS still my husband by the way in case you needed reminding, so yes, in the eyes of God and the law what he does and his life choices is still, for the time being, totally my bloody business).

Adieu!!

OP posts:

AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside · 27/10/2023 16:09

But he's left you. So it's not your business. 🤷‍♀️

@Guesswho88 If she needs to resort to personal attacks and name calling, let her. Facts speak for themselves.

Ofcourseshecan · 27/10/2023 16:13

FrogFighter · 27/10/2023 08:41

if you say it enough times then it might be true one day.

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Yup, keep trying, Always.

Or alternatively, find something less sleazy to do than picking on a woman whose husband has just detonated a narcissism grenade in her family’s life.

SurprisedWithAHorse · 27/10/2023 16:32

AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside · 27/10/2023 16:09

But he's left you. So it's not your business. 🤷‍♀️

@Guesswho88 If she needs to resort to personal attacks and name calling, let her. Facts speak for themselves.

And the facts are that anyone still trying to pretend it's actually as simple as him having shit taste doesn't have anything to contribute to the discussion other than wilful obtuseness which gets worse and worse the more they try it.

It's also a fact that personal attacks (if you're the kind of person to feel attacked by being called a donut) don't actually automatically invalidate an argument. I've called many politicians far worse than that and I've still been right about them.

WoollyBat · 27/10/2023 16:40

Not to worry @FrogFighter, we can all see it clearly.

Who cares if it's your business or not? I'm with you that actually it is, but you can look through a stranger's window and laugh at their decor if you like.

Laughing (not to his face) at my ex's domestic fails, horrible taste in bathmats etc is a small but enjoyable part of my life. I left him and we now have a pretty OK co-parenting relationship as it goes, but yes I do think "Ew no wonder we couldn't agree on a paint colour" and the like. I'm sure loads of separated and divorced women do it, whether it's their business or not.

PineConeOrDogPoo · 27/10/2023 16:50

AmazingSnakeHead · 26/10/2023 11:18

Oh, give over. There is something about posting online that makes people feel like they need to have the fake impartiality of the BBC. We don't! This man is nothing to us, we've never met him or spoken to him. But the OP sounds lovely and funny and has posted because she's having a tough time holding down the fort alone and looking for some solidarity. If your friend, auntie, or slightly drunk acquaintance at a party told you this story - about the house, the decor, the divorce - what would you say, "oh but think about it, it's a cheap shot to take the piss"? Of course you wouldn't. You would LAUGH, tell her she's well rid, and offer to root around the garage for a nylon fake sheepskin rug and comedy holiday shot glasses.

This idea that we can't laugh at things that are uncool because it's a man living his freedom to me misses an important aspect of human conenction. No one is suggesting that the OP's ex goes to prison for his crimes against the Natural Passage Of Time. But the reality is that when divorces happen it's almost always the woman who stays to parent solo, handling the emotional and financial brunt of family life, while the man galavants off to live carefree. Of course, most of us would never choose to swap, because we prefer being the parent that stays with the kids. But it is stressful and upsetting, especially if after pouring decades into raising children the reason given is "I want to date people who are MORE FUN THAN YOU!". The Mojo Dojo Casa House is funny precisely because it represents a pattern we all recognise.

What are we supposed to do, as women, in the face of this pattern? In the face of this bullshit social expectation that women carry on, wihtout complaint or even comment, and men go and live their best lives in 90s decor? We could sit around and cry about it. We could (and should, and do!) get man about it. But also we can sit back in our lovely normal adult home with our children and just take the piss out of it.

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100% this ^

CheekyHobson · 28/10/2023 01:03

So men can leave you to look after their children, after criticising you for the life that you jointly chose, and swan off to their new life - but you cannot laugh at them. Even when they do ridiculous things, like dress in fur gilets or decorare their house badly, you cannot laugh at them. Even when they demonstrate that their taste and personality has not developed slightly in the last 30 years, you cannot laugh at them. Well why on earth not? Are you really trying to say that we can't laugh at the men who make our lives harder and then behave in ways that merit ridicule and contempt, because... it's none of our business? I mean, even if this were true, so what - why can we only laugh at stupid things that are "our business"?

What's that Margaret Atwood quote? "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."

Amazing to see men lining up to protest women anonymously laughing at the actions of a man neither they nor the women in question personally know. They really are fucking terrified of the mockery of women, huh.

PyongyangKipperbang · 28/10/2023 01:32

OI!!! Dickheads!!!!

FYI.....getting a hard on because you told a woman she is wrong on the internet will not get you laid.

HTH