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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help me understand what I’m seeing (H’s behaviour related).

277 replies

FrogFighter · 25/10/2023 21:23

Together for 24 years. Married for 20. DS 15 and DD 19.

he left 6 weeks ago.

saw his rented house today.

bar table in front room with fully stocked beer fridge
all black and grey
pictures of DJs and music related visuals in black frames on walls
one photo of DCs in frame when very small
only other photo is of H on stag do 25 years ago with mates
‘joey and chandler’ armchair
black leather sofa and big TV
FROSTIES in cupboard
24 cans of tango in kitchen
polyester 90s bedding with black and white zigzags
plans to put a pool table in garage

what have I experienced?

OP posts:
GentlemanJay · 26/10/2023 12:28

I don't know what his parenting skills are. I also left my family in the February before my sons GCSEs. Of course that was used to beat me over the head with.

To criticise his interior decor style and enjoyment of fizzy orange drinks is clutching at straws.

FrogFighter · 26/10/2023 12:28

Never said I didn’t want to go out! My reference ‘but I’m 50 so of course past it’ was pure sarcasm.

OP posts:
GentlemanJay · 26/10/2023 12:28

Tigertigertigertiger · 25/10/2023 23:19

Not to everyone's tastes but so what ?

Bingo. This.

Dindundundundeeer · 26/10/2023 12:28

AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside · 26/10/2023 11:02

They've split up. its HIS new home. Its got nothing to do with OP.

Can't the poor woman vent. Surely you get that?

FrogFighter · 26/10/2023 12:33

Oh @AmazingSnakeHead I love you!

OP posts:
DemelzaandRoss · 26/10/2023 12:40

He thinks the grass is greener on the other side!
It maybe or it maybe not. For him to find out & you to put him in a box & move on with your life.
Good luck.

GingerLiberalFeminist · 26/10/2023 12:43

He sounds like the guy from the couple in the film Juno.
Basically a midlife crisis that will sour soon I'm sure. As long as he has space for kids and doesn't shirk being a dad!

AlwaysPrettyOnTheInside · 26/10/2023 12:45

Dindundundundeeer · 26/10/2023 12:28

Can't the poor woman vent. Surely you get that?

Why does she need to vent about a house that isn't hers?

How does if affect her if he eats Frosties?

GinBlossom94 · 26/10/2023 12:50

FYI I got my son a lava lamp in Dunelm, they have a nice range 😉

FrogFighter · 26/10/2023 12:51

SurprisedWithAHorse · 26/10/2023 11:03

I'm loving all the angry, frustrated middle aged dudes pretending that the issue really is as simple as the fact he's got shit taste in decor and therefore OP is the villain for cramping his polyester style.

He has left his long marriage and his children, right at GCSE time, because at the age of 50 he's decided that actually there's a bachelor pad with a revolving door of horny babes with his name on it and he'd be living it right up if not for the old ball and chain. The ridiculous time warp he's set up for himself, in which there's barely a glimpse of his children, is basically the solid proof of why he's fucked over his family and upended their lives - because he thinks that if he deems it so, the world and aforementioned babes won't notice it isn't 1997 and he's not 22.

Not living as he wanted for 20 years? I'm going to take a gamble that he wasn't exactly 50:50 carer? And whose fault is it that he married and twice impregnated a woman he now finds boring as a result of those choices?

The wife who got left behind has a God given right to look at the time capsule he's set up for himself, recognise his thought processes in it and think less of him for it. After all, he was allowed to drop his entire family in it when he didn't like what they'd become. This is pretty mild in comparison.

I do agree, though, that this is indeed what it looks like when you leave before cheating and I don't think it's such a vastly superior situation.

I haven’t even reported on half of it. The reality is (as most of the people who have grasped the spirit of this thread have guessed) worse.

obviously, the flat is a metaphor. It’s not the stuff. Or the walls. It’s what it represents in this context.

it represents modern day masculinity and what men do/do not value. And what this means for all of us.

there are so choice responses on here from some very astute and funny women.

thank you to you guys for just ‘getting it’.

OP posts:
Ladybrrrd · 26/10/2023 12:57

Is that you, Mark? 😂

Help me understand what I’m seeing (H’s behaviour related).
BethDuttonsTwin · 26/10/2023 13:00

all this bloke is doing is the things he wants and for whatever reason hasn’t been doing. If he was a woman buying new clothes, or decorating how she wants now she single she’d be getting unanimous support and encouragement. It’s a cheap shot to take the piss.

Cheap shot? Also another poster said “petty”. She and her teens have been left so he can pursue unspecified women and live out episodes of “Men Behaving Badly”. I think she’s allowed several “cheap shots” actually. All the posts about the poor unhappy man needing to live his truth. Well OP needs to process and live with his choices after a quarter of a century and if she limits that to anonymously posting about his decor and cereal choices on MN then I think she’s been remarkably restrained!

SurprisedWithAHorse · 26/10/2023 13:09

FrogFighter · 26/10/2023 12:51

I haven’t even reported on half of it. The reality is (as most of the people who have grasped the spirit of this thread have guessed) worse.

obviously, the flat is a metaphor. It’s not the stuff. Or the walls. It’s what it represents in this context.

it represents modern day masculinity and what men do/do not value. And what this means for all of us.

there are so choice responses on here from some very astute and funny women.

thank you to you guys for just ‘getting it’.

It was obvious. And it takes a special kind of... dude who looks at this situation and truly thinks the only issue here is that he's crap at interior design and you're the baddie for not liking the bedsheets.

Nobody is that obtuse, ffs.

Doublevodka · 26/10/2023 13:10

FrogFighter · 25/10/2023 21:31

I think it’s the picture of the stag do and the pool table. I did say ‘oh look there you are with your boyfriends’. Couldn’t resist.

😂😂

Guiltypleasures001 · 26/10/2023 13:18

He's gone a bit Thomo from Brassic me thinks

Duckingella · 26/10/2023 13:32

Oh god he'll be one those middle aged losers my friend came across on OLD when she joined in her early forties following her divorce.

Those divorced men on OLD appear to be having a mid life crisis and think their gods gift to women and try to use women like my friend for a shag or twice whilst pathetically messaging much younger who tell them to get lost;and they will use the obligatory photo from 20 years ago when they had hair and a decent figure but in reality they now have a seriously receding hairline and a beer belly.

I'm quietly laughing at your description of his 'Batchelors pad' they he thinks people will be impressed by.

Resilience · 26/10/2023 13:50

I'm one of the ones who got it wrong initially. I wouldn't consider myself "obtuse" (or a dude) generally but I totally misread this one. Might be because I picked it up in under active conversations and didn't realise the significance of it being in relationships, plus I had a lot going on yesterday, but that's on me. Having realised how much I misjudged it and having had FrogFighter spell out what she wanted from the thread, I did the only thing that any decent adult would do which is apologise and make a supportive comment. If I'd still really disagreed with her I'd have simply had the decency to stay away from the thread. Anything else is a derailment.

Not sure my opinion is worth much now but I'm actually in full agreement with Frog and many of the other posters supporting her. I've seen many relationships end (both from a personal and professional perspective). Where one person has needed to "find themselves", the common denominator of whether or not they take the kids with them on that journey is their sex. I only know one woman who left her child (and only temporarily). Most women accept that they need to carve out their new existence with their children as a part of it. Many then experience the frustration of not being able to redefine their lives because of structural barriers facing them as parents but they don't generally abandon their children.

If all the mothers of children whose fathers had walked out on them gave up their children to 'find themselves' too, we'd have a crisis. The women would (quite rightly) be charged with child abandonment for dumping their children and yet when men walk out on their DC it's just "one of those things ".

I had a mid life crisis. I changed career. I didn't walk out on my children. When men have a midlife crisis it says a lot that they do. It clearly demonstrates that domestic responsibilities are something they view as a negative that is holding them back and which they have every right to walk away from. I'd hazard a guess that this attitude probably has a lot to do with why they're not getting more fulfilment from their relationship with their partner and children in the first place. Running away and starting a new life is just exacerbating the problem rather than addressing the underlying cause. Which is them and their attitude to overcoming challenges. If men took the same approach to working on their relationships with their wives and children as they often seem able to do with work challenges, life would look very different. But domestic life is constantly devalued (until it's stability is taken away from you at least) or considered an entitlement.

In the long run, this kind of 'freedom' rarely leads to happiness. I see a lot of men settle down with someone new and make the same mistakes. They grow lonely in old age. Occasionally, some have a lightbulb moment and make amends. None of which will undo what the e OP and her DC have been through.

Yes I know not all men are like that and not all women are devoted mothers, but as a trend there's no disputing that women take far greater responsibility for their children than men do in the event of separation.

FloydPepper · 26/10/2023 14:03

I’m sorry. Now you’ve explained that your post was actually a deep questioning of the state of modern masculinity, and not just a dig at your ex doing stuff you wouldn’t, I retract my criticism of posters taking the piss.

SurprisedWithAHorse · 26/10/2023 14:09

FloydPepper · 26/10/2023 14:03

I’m sorry. Now you’ve explained that your post was actually a deep questioning of the state of modern masculinity, and not just a dig at your ex doing stuff you wouldn’t, I retract my criticism of posters taking the piss.

I hate rubbish sarcasm. It's annoying seeing a hash job of what should be a fine art.

The only thing more risible than joining Mumsnet purely because its existence threatens your masculinity is dumping your family aged 50 to go and live in a 90s time warp because you think it's all going to be raves and babes as if the intervening 30 years didn't happen. If you deck your new bachelor pad out to embody this delusion as if it were under rave neon lights, women will laugh at you.

This has been a public service announcement for people who apparently needed to be told.

FloydPepper · 26/10/2023 14:20

A newly separated woman buying a new outfit is not a commentary on femininity and does not mean all women value clothes over family

a newly separated man buying a pool table is not a commentary on masculinity and does not mean all men value socialising over family.

and yeah, the sarcasm was clunky. That’s on me…

AInightingale · 26/10/2023 14:27

Totally agree @Duckingella. I am in this sort of position myself and the double standard disgusts me. There is such a low bar for 'fathering', and a woman who behaved as my ex does (taking the house, then refusing to look after the kids while spending his weekends with women and blocking my calls) would be socially ostracised, called every name under the sun, pointed out by local gossips and generally deemed an appalling individual. Yet I doubt it damages the reputation of men in the slightest, perhaps among other mothers, but certainly not among other men. We do need to talk about it. Women have achieved a certain equality with men as regards sexual freedom, having children out of wedlock etc, or at least they aren't judged as harshly they used to be, but my God it has gone into reverse when it comes to what society expects from fathers. 'Child abandonment' used to carry a stigma for men - not any more, it seems.

AInightingale · 26/10/2023 14:32

Sorry that was actually meant for @Resilience posting just below, though I am nodding grimly at the thought of these blokes on dating apps!

SurprisedWithAHorse · 26/10/2023 14:46

FloydPepper · 26/10/2023 14:20

A newly separated woman buying a new outfit is not a commentary on femininity and does not mean all women value clothes over family

a newly separated man buying a pool table is not a commentary on masculinity and does not mean all men value socialising over family.

and yeah, the sarcasm was clunky. That’s on me…

Edited

You know, maybe you really do think it's about a frigging pool table. Despite all the explanations for anyone who missed the blindingly obvious. I guess that in your haste to correct everyone on Mumsnet (because that's what any forum of women must need), you actually do go completely blind when it suits you. Perhaps you can't help it.

Now it's even funnier!

OnTheSafeSide · 26/10/2023 15:20

It's the Manopause.

Bookworm20 · 26/10/2023 16:07

AmazingSnakeHead · 26/10/2023 11:18

Oh, give over. There is something about posting online that makes people feel like they need to have the fake impartiality of the BBC. We don't! This man is nothing to us, we've never met him or spoken to him. But the OP sounds lovely and funny and has posted because she's having a tough time holding down the fort alone and looking for some solidarity. If your friend, auntie, or slightly drunk acquaintance at a party told you this story - about the house, the decor, the divorce - what would you say, "oh but think about it, it's a cheap shot to take the piss"? Of course you wouldn't. You would LAUGH, tell her she's well rid, and offer to root around the garage for a nylon fake sheepskin rug and comedy holiday shot glasses.

This idea that we can't laugh at things that are uncool because it's a man living his freedom to me misses an important aspect of human conenction. No one is suggesting that the OP's ex goes to prison for his crimes against the Natural Passage Of Time. But the reality is that when divorces happen it's almost always the woman who stays to parent solo, handling the emotional and financial brunt of family life, while the man galavants off to live carefree. Of course, most of us would never choose to swap, because we prefer being the parent that stays with the kids. But it is stressful and upsetting, especially if after pouring decades into raising children the reason given is "I want to date people who are MORE FUN THAN YOU!". The Mojo Dojo Casa House is funny precisely because it represents a pattern we all recognise.

What are we supposed to do, as women, in the face of this pattern? In the face of this bullshit social expectation that women carry on, wihtout complaint or even comment, and men go and live their best lives in 90s decor? We could sit around and cry about it. We could (and should, and do!) get man about it. But also we can sit back in our lovely normal adult home with our children and just take the piss out of it.

Spot on! 👏👏