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Original poster

This is how low men's bar for themselves is

227 replies

boundarypushingbastards · 29/09/2023 13:35

So I am just back from a date. Guy seemed really nice when chatting before date, and I was really hopeful. He just seemed like a nice, regular guy. We are both outdoorsy and he suggested a nature walk. I thought this was a great idea. Off we went. Within 15 mins he was like, lets sit down. I did feel a bit 'hmm' as I thought we were doing a walk but ok. So we sit down and he immediately puts his hand on mine. I don't like this as I don't really know him so I move my hand away. He asks me if I want to see him again. I say ' I don't know I have only just met you.' He says he fancies me, I reply, ' You don't actually know me yet'. He asks for a kiss. I say no. He asks three more times whilst moving in closer for a kiss. I give him a firm no each time and by the fourth time I am really pissed off with this boundary ignoring shit and so I stand up and say, ' I've had enough of this.' and start to walk back to my car. He apologises but says, ' In my defence, I didn't actually do anything.'

This has really, really pissed me off. So in his world, because he hasn't actually assaulted me, he's a decent guy and I should give him another chance? Repeatedly ignoring a woman saying, ' No I don't want to', and continually pushing her to relent and using his greater size to move in on her physically, is ok if you don't actually assault her? That's how low his fucking bar is for himself and all men??

Fuck off! We are in our 50s! His other defence was ' Its been a long time I am out of practice'. What? He forgot women were humans with choice and agency in his shagless years? Fuck off!

Oh, and to make it worse, he has two teenage daughters. Is this how he wants men to treat them too?

I'm quite upset. It was a really horrible experience, being ignored and loomed towards like that. Made me feel really dehumanised and really shit.

OP posts:
SVFXHMX42 · 30/09/2023 11:13

boundarypushingbastards · 30/09/2023 07:34

Yup, and the evidence points firmly to it being an awful lot of men. My comment on men’s low bar clearly refers in my post to the ‘ I didn’t really do anything’ comment. Ie, thinking that ignoring ‘no’ and keeping pushing to overcome resistance is ‘not really doing anything’.

Men thinking like this is a massive problem. The reason why society keeps banging on about teaching boys and men about consent is because vast numbers of boys and men tell themselves that when a female says ‘No’ you don’t have to instantly accept that, the reason male self styled pick up artists who teach men to ignore and overcome resistance, is because males want to believe that no does not mean no. The reason why women being abused and raped is mainstream porn, is because huge proportions of males are sexually aroused to orgasm by women’s refusal being ignored and them being raped.
So to the posters who think I am deluded and making myself unhappy by thinking ignoring a women’s ‘no’ is not just limited to this one bad date, then actually it’s you who are deluded, as Cressida Dick was, by telling yourselves this is one bad apple, rather than a widely ingrained misogynistic issue.

Show quote history

Well said.

Watchkeys · 30/09/2023 15:43

You're calling people deluded for thinking that there are good men out there.

That's messed up, but if it makes you happy to be so bitter, it's nobody's problem but yours. Nobody is saying that there aren't plenty of shit men out there. Just that you can avoid them without letting it get you down.

Tinybrother · 30/09/2023 16:15

I’d love to know how to avoid shit men without letting it get me down.

they’re everywhere - I’m not looking for a new relationship but it’s impossible to avoid men’s shitty behaviour, they force it on you (which is part of the point)

Watchkeys · 30/09/2023 16:24

it’s impossible to avoid men’s shitty behaviour

Stop hanging around with anybody who behaves shittily is a good step. It works for a lot of people. It leaves you in a position where your exposure to shit behaviour is under your control. And whether anything gets you down or not isn't to do with the thing, it's to do with you.

Tinybrother · 30/09/2023 16:32

Right. I’ve got you.

Anothagoatthis · 30/09/2023 17:32

Tinybrother · 30/09/2023 16:15

I’d love to know how to avoid shit men without letting it get me down.

they’re everywhere - I’m not looking for a new relationship but it’s impossible to avoid men’s shitty behaviour, they force it on you (which is part of the point)

Perhaps because I WFH and have majority female friends the only men I see regularly are the ones who do my weekly grocery delivery and the guy I’m currently dating .

I have recently quit the gym and bought a walking pad for home use so that will help too 😂

Tinybrother · 30/09/2023 17:41

sure. And for people who have to live and work among men, like many women do?

I love this idea that we’re all choosing to “hang out” with shitty men. No, that isn’t what’s happening. But that response tells me everything I need to know about that poster’s opinion

NaughtyBoyGeorgeMichaelJacksonBrown · 30/09/2023 18:21

Some women have been lucky (or at least believe they have by not recognising misogyny when they experience it) and seem unable to to understand other womens' realities.

I have given up on dating men completely dues to repeated bad experiences and the emotional, physical, sexual and financial damage they have done to me. Even if there was a local, age appropriate, available lovely man who I liked, I wouldn't bother because my experiences will not allow me to trust and put the effort in again so it would be a non-starter. My experiences aren't extreme btw - 'just' cheating and coercive control.

I looked for love for 30 years and got repeatedly hurt - I didn't do that to myself.

The bar is on the floor. And it allows basic, standard men to be seen as decent just because they don't rape you in the bushes or give you a black eye and a certified prince if they make a cup of tea or parent their own child.

Watchkeys · 30/09/2023 18:26

Tinybrother · 30/09/2023 17:41

sure. And for people who have to live and work among men, like many women do?

I love this idea that we’re all choosing to “hang out” with shitty men. No, that isn’t what’s happening. But that response tells me everything I need to know about that poster’s opinion

What does that actually mean? 'The poster stated their opinion, and that tells me their opinion plainly'

Keep seeing yourself as the victim of men. No skin off my nose. I remove myself from situations where people behave in shitty ways. You don't have to. We're all different.

SamW98 · 30/09/2023 18:28

I’m mid 50’s and been single nearly 4 years now after a 25 year relationship.

I have to say I’ve set my boundaries high but no matter how many sleazy creeps I delete, there’s still way too many out there who manage to put on a very good act at the start but very quickly show their true colours of being after sex and nothing more.

This isn’t just OLD. I’ve met men out and about in various settings and they either want a replacement wide to wipe their arse or are looking for a quick shag.

Ive done A LOT of filtering had lengthy telephone conversations before meeting and still been sent naked pics, had men try and paw me or shove their tongue down my throat on the first date - and these are the very small % that have made the cut to meet up.

I KNOW it’s not all men but there is definitely a lot of chaff to sort through for very little wheat. It’s hardly worth the energy involved.

Honestly a few years ago I wouldn’t have believed there really were so many wronguns out there. Being single after such a long gap has been a huge eye opener.

Watchkeys · 30/09/2023 18:32

Some women have been lucky

And some had abusive fathers, and learned from it to not be around crappy people. Avoiding disrespectful behaviour isn't luck. It's a conscious decision that's sometimes hard to implement, but necessary to implement. Women are shitty and abusive too, and also to be avoided, but to intimate that it's all or most of them is to denigrate society. Nobody is denying that 'a proportion' of men are shit, or that almost all violent crime is perpetrated by men, or any of the other statistics. But to suggest that there are very few good men out there suggests a lack of a broader social base than your own, unhealthy one.

Original poster
boundarypushingbastards · 30/09/2023 19:10

Watchkeys · 30/09/2023 15:43

You're calling people deluded for thinking that there are good men out there.

That's messed up, but if it makes you happy to be so bitter, it's nobody's problem but yours. Nobody is saying that there aren't plenty of shit men out there. Just that you can avoid them without letting it get you down.

Read what I actually said and try again.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 30/09/2023 19:38

You said that people who disagree with you on this point are deluded.

It wasn't too complicated for me to understand, although clearly you're extremely erudite. I disagree with you, because I've chosen to step away from the shittiness, and spend my time with people who respect each other.

It's sad that you don't, and choose to keep spending time with disrespectful people, and then getting bitter about being their victim, and psychoanalysing how their minds work. Step away. There have always been shitty people, and there have always been nice people. Those who are responsible for themselves choose their company wisely, with respect at the forefront of their choice. Those who do not take responsibility for themselves blame others for their own unhappiness, and feel like victims.

It's up to all of us to choose which of those to be. Very few people are genuinely trapped with no way out. Many believe themselves to be.

irobot95 · 01/10/2023 04:24

Misogyny takes many forms, this is just one that you, thankfully escaped. Recent devastating news stories reflect the sense of entitlement men feel they have over women, (social) media spouting men enable it, clueless young people enable it, mothers, fathers, family members, friends enable it. Very sad state of affairs

WanderingStarofNorthernLands · 01/10/2023 06:45

No is no. He should’ve been respectful of that.

Lucky escape!

Sayitaintso33 · 01/10/2023 06:52

One of the many problems with OLD is that bulshitters and liars often get picked over more decent people.

Avoid flattery from people who don't know you. It should be the biggest of red flags.

S910441 · 01/10/2023 07:13

Watchkeys · 29/09/2023 14:35

I am bitter at the moment, yes

Then rally against that, not against men. It's like never eating strawberries again because you had 1 bad punnet.

More like never eating strawberries again because every single punnet is rotten through and through.

pantypant · 01/10/2023 07:19

PennyFarting1 · 29/09/2023 13:41

I'm really sorry, he was disgusting.
As an aside, I don't recommend going for walks with new guys from a safety point of view. People these days don't help when they see a woman arguing with a man so even if it's not rural there's likely no CCTV around in nature and in beauty spots where those walks tend to happen you can go stretches with not seeing many walkers by.
Moreover, Guys who suggest walks as a first date are either tight, incel testing you or creepy. Don't meet strangers for walks, they could drag you behind bushes or whatever.
I find being fathers to daughters not a deterrent, in fact the most misogynistic men I've met had several daughters.

Edited

Suggesting a walk is not right or an incel ffs. It's way less awkward and gives to things to look at and talk about. Meeting someone for dinner in a first date is really not recommended as if you realise 25 mins in that you don't want to be there you have to either be rude and walk out of a meal or suffer through it. A walk or a coffee is perfect for a first date. But a walk somewhere bust. Not remote

Watchkeys · 01/10/2023 07:40

@S910441

Yes, that's the belief that is known not to be true by those of us who refuse to spend time with disrespectful men, and insist on respect.

Anothagoatthis · 01/10/2023 07:46

pantypant · 01/10/2023 07:19

Suggesting a walk is not right or an incel ffs. It's way less awkward and gives to things to look at and talk about. Meeting someone for dinner in a first date is really not recommended as if you realise 25 mins in that you don't want to be there you have to either be rude and walk out of a meal or suffer through it. A walk or a coffee is perfect for a first date. But a walk somewhere bust. Not remote

Show quote history

To be fair the poster suggested incel as one of the things they could be, they didn’t say they definitely are.

And they were right, it’s common in red pill circles to advise having extremely low effort /free first dates so it can be a red flag. And some guys who suggest it are cheap, also true.

I vet guys on the phone before I meet them so I’ve never had any issues with first date dinners, as I’m pretty discerning but equally I could have a coffee. A walk and coffee are different. I was recently invited out for dinner but downgraded it to a coffee meet up.

that said I think coffees are often suggested by men who are serial daters. You know the ones who just want to keep meeting more and more and more women from OLD. If they’re being more choosy about who they take out perhaps a dinner won’t seem such a large expense.

FluffyCatBonzo · 01/10/2023 09:27

Booklover40 · 29/09/2023 16:36

Unfortunately I think a lot of the men on these websites just want a shag, not a relationship. They just pretend they want a relationship to reel the women in.

You have to ask yourself why these men in their 40s/50s/60 s are single? I think it’s very true that men stay in relationships no matter how shit as they want someone to wash their underpants and cook their tea. It’s the women who generally do the finishing as they’re fed up of the crappy behaviour from the man.

What is the reason then the OP and other women are on the sites and single? They are all paragons of virtue?

Booklover40 · 01/10/2023 14:53

What is the reason then the OP and other women are on the sites and single? They are all paragons of virtue?

No, I think more likely they have boundaries and self esteem and don’t stay in relationships with shit men. I think if they were honest with themselves a hell of a lot of women out there put up with cruddy behaviour from their partners in order to not be single, myself included.

Just this last couple of weeks I’ve had several men I know defending the likes of Russell Brand and Laurence Fox. When toxic masculinity is so rampant it’s no wonder it’s seen as normal behaviour to basically be a misogynistic creep.

Women like the OP are the ones who have thrown men like the sad individual in her OP back onto the scrap heap. As I said earlier - women are usually the dumpers as a lot of us reach a certain age and just won’t tolerate the crap any longer. That’s why OLD is full of these sex-pest excuses for men.

If you are a woman and don’t recognise any of this behaviour from men you meet we’ll good for you, you’ve been very lucky - but you are definitely in the minority.

All of the horrible rapey, aggressive and downright awful behaviour I’ve ever had the misfortune to come across in life has come from men. Even the ones who to everyone else seem like a “good guy”.

Watchkeys · 01/10/2023 15:20

Women like the OP are the ones who have thrown men like the sad individual in her OP back onto the scrap heap

But she's bitter and feeling herself to be victimised. Is she a healthy addition to the dating pool? If she had good self esteem, she wouldn't be here looking for external validation. She would have said 'So long, Jack, you big pile of crap!' and moved on, without needing to talk about how shit men are generally.

FluffyCatBonzo · 01/10/2023 15:30

@Booklover40 maybe I am lucky then - at least you didn't say I have set my bar too low. My second marriage is to a divorced man and he does not fall into that category. It was his wife who was the drunk and badly behaved. I know many good men in my family and friendship group but yes there are some pricks I know as well. I wouldn't say I am in the minority but then it seems we live very different lives. Yes I had an unhappy towards the end of my first marriage but I still don't categorise all men according to him.

FluffyCatBonzo · 01/10/2023 15:35

@Watchkeys there is truth in what you say. Women also need to be sensible and accountable for their behaviour too. It was a BIG mistake to go on a walk with a man you have never met and that is understating it. I'm not saying she was asking for it or any other crap like that ( before anyone starts this) BUT you make your own sensible choices and you avoid some situations in life. That way you are less likely to encounter issues. I'm not victim blaming. I am saying you have to take decisions to protect yourself both mentally and physically.