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Original poster

This is how low men's bar for themselves is

227 replies

boundarypushingbastards · 29/09/2023 13:35

So I am just back from a date. Guy seemed really nice when chatting before date, and I was really hopeful. He just seemed like a nice, regular guy. We are both outdoorsy and he suggested a nature walk. I thought this was a great idea. Off we went. Within 15 mins he was like, lets sit down. I did feel a bit 'hmm' as I thought we were doing a walk but ok. So we sit down and he immediately puts his hand on mine. I don't like this as I don't really know him so I move my hand away. He asks me if I want to see him again. I say ' I don't know I have only just met you.' He says he fancies me, I reply, ' You don't actually know me yet'. He asks for a kiss. I say no. He asks three more times whilst moving in closer for a kiss. I give him a firm no each time and by the fourth time I am really pissed off with this boundary ignoring shit and so I stand up and say, ' I've had enough of this.' and start to walk back to my car. He apologises but says, ' In my defence, I didn't actually do anything.'

This has really, really pissed me off. So in his world, because he hasn't actually assaulted me, he's a decent guy and I should give him another chance? Repeatedly ignoring a woman saying, ' No I don't want to', and continually pushing her to relent and using his greater size to move in on her physically, is ok if you don't actually assault her? That's how low his fucking bar is for himself and all men??

Fuck off! We are in our 50s! His other defence was ' Its been a long time I am out of practice'. What? He forgot women were humans with choice and agency in his shagless years? Fuck off!

Oh, and to make it worse, he has two teenage daughters. Is this how he wants men to treat them too?

I'm quite upset. It was a really horrible experience, being ignored and loomed towards like that. Made me feel really dehumanised and really shit.

OP posts:
BetterWithPockets · 29/09/2023 17:36

Dotty87 · 29/09/2023 13:44

He ignored a very clear no, that isn't "out of practice". Glad you got away from him.

Show quote history

This. You can be out of practice but it’s not so difficult to respond to someone saying no by, erm, stopping.
So sorry you had this experience, OP, and hope you’re okay.

Birthdayblu · 29/09/2023 17:41

SVFXHMX42 · 29/09/2023 17:35

But when you have more bad punnets than good it kind of puts you off buying any more strawberries.

Show quote history

100% this. I’m sticking of picking up mouldy punnets on every app and have had to come off them for my sanity.

oh, and I’m 33 and it’s dire out here for all of us. For those intimating it’s an age thing/harder at 50+, trust me it has nothing to do with this ‘man’’s age.

Birthdayblu · 29/09/2023 17:42

And I’m so sorry for what you experienced, OP. Really thankful you had your car/means of escape.

also I think a walk for a date is a very low bar - and I like walking!

Naunet · 29/09/2023 17:49

PenguinPete · 29/09/2023 17:15

All men?

Just because you've had a bad experience with a total weirdo doesn't mean that "all men" are like this. You said you're in your 50s.... so grow up.

It’s not OPs attitude that’s the problem, it’s her experiences, caused by men that have led to her feeling that way. Maybe focus on that and be supportive rather than chastising her for being fed up.

Im sorry you experienced that OP, it’s shit, yes there are good men out there as I’m sure you know and don’t patronisingly need to be told, but it doesn’t make this situation any less upsetting and unacceptable.

Efficaciou5 · 29/09/2023 18:01

boundarypushingbastards · 29/09/2023 13:35

So I am just back from a date. Guy seemed really nice when chatting before date, and I was really hopeful. He just seemed like a nice, regular guy. We are both outdoorsy and he suggested a nature walk. I thought this was a great idea. Off we went. Within 15 mins he was like, lets sit down. I did feel a bit 'hmm' as I thought we were doing a walk but ok. So we sit down and he immediately puts his hand on mine. I don't like this as I don't really know him so I move my hand away. He asks me if I want to see him again. I say ' I don't know I have only just met you.' He says he fancies me, I reply, ' You don't actually know me yet'. He asks for a kiss. I say no. He asks three more times whilst moving in closer for a kiss. I give him a firm no each time and by the fourth time I am really pissed off with this boundary ignoring shit and so I stand up and say, ' I've had enough of this.' and start to walk back to my car. He apologises but says, ' In my defence, I didn't actually do anything.'

This has really, really pissed me off. So in his world, because he hasn't actually assaulted me, he's a decent guy and I should give him another chance? Repeatedly ignoring a woman saying, ' No I don't want to', and continually pushing her to relent and using his greater size to move in on her physically, is ok if you don't actually assault her? That's how low his fucking bar is for himself and all men??

Fuck off! We are in our 50s! His other defence was ' Its been a long time I am out of practice'. What? He forgot women were humans with choice and agency in his shagless years? Fuck off!

Oh, and to make it worse, he has two teenage daughters. Is this how he wants men to treat them too?

I'm quite upset. It was a really horrible experience, being ignored and loomed towards like that. Made me feel really dehumanised and really shit.

So, from your unfortunate experience of one individual, you've decided to announce that ....

"This is how low men's bar for themselves is"

That would suggest that you believe one man's actions represents all men.

Would you also believe that one woman's actions represents all women ?

beatrix1234 · 29/09/2023 18:08

OP if this helps… when I did OLD a few years ago, something that completely saved me from cringe and akward dates was doing an online date before any IRL interaction. We would schedule a day and a time, grab a cuppa and have a video call on wassap for half an hour. It gave me a pretty good idea if this was someone I wanted to meet IRL. Unfortunately only 30% if candidates were legible for an IRL date.

Rockingchai · 29/09/2023 18:30

I'm 48 and been OLD for a year. I've met around 8 men aged 40-53. Had to do a lot of sifting. None of them came to anything but thank god I've had no sleazy experience at all. Plenty of attempted sleaze via messaging but they were all swiftly deleted.

I have been for first date walks! Walking is a passion and if someone shares this I would consider. I'd anyways choose the walk though.

Sunshinenrain · 29/09/2023 18:56

Tinklyheadtilt · 29/09/2023 17:17

No. YABU

Lots of good men with strong values. You were just unfortunate and had a bellend. Report him to the police and move on.

I do agree that there are plenty of good men in the world, but how many are on dating sites.

I’m sure there are plenty of women are on there who have issues or baggage too but there seems a lot more men on dating sites that are arses.

Sunshinenrain · 29/09/2023 18:58

also I think a walk for a date is a very low bar - and I like walking!

I prefer to go on a walking date.
I can’t think of anything worse than sitting opposite a stranger trying to make awkward conversation.

I’m re-thinking them now though!

mathanxiety · 29/09/2023 19:07

I think you should report him to the site.

It's more than creepy that he was the one who suggested the 'nature walk'.

mathanxiety · 29/09/2023 19:15

Watchkeys · 29/09/2023 14:13

There's no fucking good men left, are there? I give up

You're not doing yourself any favours. This was one man, not a cross section of men. Don't let one obnoxious idiot make you give up. Move on, be proud that you don't stoop to seeing people like this a second time, and enjoy your life without bitterness.

There are many good men out there, and many happy relationships. There are very likely lots of men out there who you would be compatible with. Is this jerk worth leaving them behind, for?

I don't know why you've used the word bitterness there.

Are you aware that it's a particularly gendered adjective, usually used by people who are pushing a NAMALT narrative?

It's not bitterness that makes women who've had their boundaries trampled on by a man feel suspicious of men in general. It's the intelligent, rational response.

We live in a world where even other women have been suckered into believing that their sisters owe themselves the risk of keeping on trying to find one of the alleged 'many good men out there' and women who try to establish a boundary find their choice criticized by men and women alike.

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".

Original poster
boundarypushingbastards · 29/09/2023 19:24

SVFXHMX42 · 29/09/2023 17:35

But when you have more bad punnets than good it kind of puts you off buying any more strawberries.

Show quote history

That is such a great analogy! Well put. Poisonous punnets put you off strawberries! They really do!

OP posts:
Original poster
boundarypushingbastards · 29/09/2023 19:28

Efficaciou5 · 29/09/2023 18:01

So, from your unfortunate experience of one individual, you've decided to announce that ....

"This is how low men's bar for themselves is"

That would suggest that you believe one man's actions represents all men.

Would you also believe that one woman's actions represents all women ?

Show quote history

Actually it’s five decades of experience of lots and lots of men.

OP posts:
Birthdayblu · 29/09/2023 20:42

Sunshinenrain · 29/09/2023 18:58

also I think a walk for a date is a very low bar - and I like walking!

I prefer to go on a walking date.
I can’t think of anything worse than sitting opposite a stranger trying to make awkward conversation.

I’m re-thinking them now though!

I matched with one man who told me he took all his dates on the same walk at the same beach location and they would frequent a nearby cafe (if it got to that). His rationale? He had a dog and he didn’t want to spend money. If the date was shit then his dog would have had a walk.

That exchange has somewhat dimmed my view further on walk dates.

I unmatched him.

Gettingbysomehow · 29/09/2023 20:54

I find men barely human these days. They only seem to think about sex. Why are they like this?

Watchkeys · 29/09/2023 21:20

Well, if it makes you happy...

Except it's not, but, you know, each to their own punnet...

Watchkeys · 29/09/2023 21:20

Gettingbysomehow · 29/09/2023 20:54

I find men barely human these days. They only seem to think about sex. Why are they like this?

Because you're looking at idiot men.

Anothagoatthis · 29/09/2023 23:53

PennyFarting1 · 29/09/2023 13:41

I'm really sorry, he was disgusting.
As an aside, I don't recommend going for walks with new guys from a safety point of view. People these days don't help when they see a woman arguing with a man so even if it's not rural there's likely no CCTV around in nature and in beauty spots where those walks tend to happen you can go stretches with not seeing many walkers by.
Moreover, Guys who suggest walks as a first date are either tight, incel testing you or creepy. Don't meet strangers for walks, they could drag you behind bushes or whatever.
I find being fathers to daughters not a deterrent, in fact the most misogynistic men I've met had several daughters.

Edited

Agree with all of this including men being cheap or testing you with walking dates.

There was another thread the other day about a creep who was pushy on a first date in a park. I prefer to be in a more supervised place like a cafe.

and yeah being fathers to daughters is irrelevant usually. Wayne Couzens for example well may have had daughters, I know he had children anyway. I know many other misogynists who have had daughters and sisters too.

Anothagoatthis · 29/09/2023 23:59

Gettingbysomehow · 29/09/2023 20:54

I find men barely human these days. They only seem to think about sex. Why are they like this?

Some really are barely human lol 😆

I was talking to a guy earlier this year who lived in another part of the country. I was using my own money to book a hotel and take a train to meet him as we’d been talking daily for several weeks .

When he realised I was not going to have sex with him on my trip, his attitude changed and he claimed he couldn’t take me out for dinner that evening as the restaurants would be closed on a Monday. For context he lives in Luton not some tiny rural place, there definitely was places open on a Monday! Despite the fact I was spending over £150 on the hotel and train fare to meet him and Dinner would have been much less of an expense for him, he took it off the table once he realised sex wasn’t on the cards.

Vile. I just cancelled the trip, and cut him off shortly after that so thankfully never met him in person.

Anothagoatthis · 30/09/2023 00:05

Birthdayblu · 29/09/2023 20:42

I matched with one man who told me he took all his dates on the same walk at the same beach location and they would frequent a nearby cafe (if it got to that). His rationale? He had a dog and he didn’t want to spend money. If the date was shit then his dog would have had a walk.

That exchange has somewhat dimmed my view further on walk dates.

I unmatched him.

Show quote history

I’d have unmatched too.

Bringing a dog on a first date would be a red flag to me anyway. I get it if your dog is a big part of your life you may want to see if the person gets along with them but not on the first date. You should just be focused on your date and committed to investing a bit of time on just them.

This reinforces my dislike of low effort dates.

givemeasunnyday · 30/09/2023 00:51

NeunundneunzigHorseBallonz · 29/09/2023 13:45

“In my defense”??? He knows he’s attempted to assault you. I’d seriously report his behaviour to the dating site and possibly the police. (He MIGHT get a stern talking to.)

The police????? Oh come on, don't be so dramatic. He asked four times for a kiss, get over yourself. Where is the "attempted assault"?

I know there are some shits out there, but seriously, the world has gone mad!! All OP has to do is not see him again, simple as that.

PaintedEgg · 30/09/2023 06:59

i wonder if "not all men" men in this thread realise that while sure, not all men are shit, their angry posts and excuses they make for this creep are putting them firmly in the same category

so sure, not all men - but that creep OP met and you are the problem

Original poster
boundarypushingbastards · 30/09/2023 07:34

PaintedEgg · 30/09/2023 06:59

i wonder if "not all men" men in this thread realise that while sure, not all men are shit, their angry posts and excuses they make for this creep are putting them firmly in the same category

so sure, not all men - but that creep OP met and you are the problem

Yup, and the evidence points firmly to it being an awful lot of men. My comment on men’s low bar clearly refers in my post to the ‘ I didn’t really do anything’ comment. Ie, thinking that ignoring ‘no’ and keeping pushing to overcome resistance is ‘not really doing anything’.

Men thinking like this is a massive problem. The reason why society keeps banging on about teaching boys and men about consent is because vast numbers of boys and men tell themselves that when a female says ‘No’ you don’t have to instantly accept that, the reason male self styled pick up artists who teach men to ignore and overcome resistance, is because males want to believe that no does not mean no. The reason why women being abused and raped is mainstream porn, is because huge proportions of males are sexually aroused to orgasm by women’s refusal being ignored and them being raped.
So to the posters who think I am deluded and making myself unhappy by thinking ignoring a women’s ‘no’ is not just limited to this one bad date, then actually it’s you who are deluded, as Cressida Dick was, by telling yourselves this is one bad apple, rather than a widely ingrained misogynistic issue.

OP posts:
PaintedEgg · 30/09/2023 08:20

@boundarypushingbastards you're absolutely right...was it this or last week when a teenager was killer because she interfered when her friend was harassed by her ex?

men not understanding what "no" means are not only a problem, but an absolutely threat to women's safety. Also, the fact that the man you've met wanted to go for a walk (let me guess - secluded area with few walkers around?) proves that he had at least a suspicion that he may get rejected...then he got rejected and still ignored it

GingerIsBest · 30/09/2023 09:40

@boundarypushingbastards yes. Plus when you talk about teaching boys about consent and boundaries, people are surprisingly horrified. They seem to think it's something you magically teach them when they're like 15. I've been teaching DS about consent since he was about 2. Obviously, in the beginning it wasn't in the least sexual, but he was always taller and bigger than the other children and I wanted him to understand that a game he thought was fun might not be fun for anyone else.

I have a nephew who is, at heart, a sweet kid. But his parents don't seem capable of boundaries. So he'll cuddle and stroke and kiss people all the time and the parents think it's "cute". And as he gets older, it's less and less okay. When are they planning to shift this message? When he's a horny 15 year old? It's too late by then.