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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

This is how low men's bar for themselves is

227 replies

boundarypushingbastards · 29/09/2023 13:35

So I am just back from a date. Guy seemed really nice when chatting before date, and I was really hopeful. He just seemed like a nice, regular guy. We are both outdoorsy and he suggested a nature walk. I thought this was a great idea. Off we went. Within 15 mins he was like, lets sit down. I did feel a bit 'hmm' as I thought we were doing a walk but ok. So we sit down and he immediately puts his hand on mine. I don't like this as I don't really know him so I move my hand away. He asks me if I want to see him again. I say ' I don't know I have only just met you.' He says he fancies me, I reply, ' You don't actually know me yet'. He asks for a kiss. I say no. He asks three more times whilst moving in closer for a kiss. I give him a firm no each time and by the fourth time I am really pissed off with this boundary ignoring shit and so I stand up and say, ' I've had enough of this.' and start to walk back to my car. He apologises but says, ' In my defence, I didn't actually do anything.'

This has really, really pissed me off. So in his world, because he hasn't actually assaulted me, he's a decent guy and I should give him another chance? Repeatedly ignoring a woman saying, ' No I don't want to', and continually pushing her to relent and using his greater size to move in on her physically, is ok if you don't actually assault her? That's how low his fucking bar is for himself and all men??

Fuck off! We are in our 50s! His other defence was ' Its been a long time I am out of practice'. What? He forgot women were humans with choice and agency in his shagless years? Fuck off!

Oh, and to make it worse, he has two teenage daughters. Is this how he wants men to treat them too?

I'm quite upset. It was a really horrible experience, being ignored and loomed towards like that. Made me feel really dehumanised and really shit.

OP posts:
ReeseWitherfork · 29/09/2023 14:15

beatrix1234 · 29/09/2023 13:41

Maybe he’s not a jerk, maybe he’s been married all his life and completely socially akward, doesn’t know how women in real life operate. I don’t know which one but s scarier TBH. Congrats on the quick escape.

The worst bit is, there’s a scenario where this is true. That he’s an otherwise decent bloke who doesn’t know anything about boundaries and consent, and thinks his behaviour is acceptable. Just makes it so much worse.

Graciebobcat · 29/09/2023 14:16

No, you are absolutely right, OP. He sounds like a jerk.

It reminded me of when I was kissing a boy when I was 15 and he asked me if I wanted to go and sit down under a tree. I said no because I enjoyed kissing him but definitely did not want to have sex or take it any further. I thought after how awful it would have been if he'd decided to be forceful (he wasn't, thank goodness) and felt a bit silly for going out into the park with him, that I'd even put myself into that position.

Someone being so persistent and ignoring your words and actions- and as a mature man - has more red flags than China, for me.

LittlePlumTree · 29/09/2023 14:19

When did going for walks become a date, I would never go on a walk for a date! Maybe somewhere public next time he is less likely to do that round lots of people?

Iateallthechocolate · 29/09/2023 14:21

Online dating is like swimming in a sewer sometimes .

I quickly changed to coffee dates only as first dates. Over in half an hour. Table between you. In a public place. Consolation cake if they're rubbish. Option to extend date or make 2nd date if they're OK.

Original poster
boundarypushingbastards · 29/09/2023 14:24

Watchkeys · 29/09/2023 14:13

There's no fucking good men left, are there? I give up

You're not doing yourself any favours. This was one man, not a cross section of men. Don't let one obnoxious idiot make you give up. Move on, be proud that you don't stoop to seeing people like this a second time, and enjoy your life without bitterness.

There are many good men out there, and many happy relationships. There are very likely lots of men out there who you would be compatible with. Is this jerk worth leaving them behind, for?

I'm really demoralised. The last guy I had a relationship of several years turned out to be a fucking compulsive liar of epic proportions who was seeing multiple other women, risking all our health, and telling them all the same shit as he told me. And he presented as Mr Lovely Nice Guy. I am bitter at the moment, yes.

OP posts:
Original poster
boundarypushingbastards · 29/09/2023 14:26

ReeseWitherfork · 29/09/2023 14:15

The worst bit is, there’s a scenario where this is true. That he’s an otherwise decent bloke who doesn’t know anything about boundaries and consent, and thinks his behaviour is acceptable. Just makes it so much worse.

Show quote history

Decent men understand boundaries and consent. You cannot be a decent man if you don't. Boundaries and consent are not actually difficult concepts, really.

OP posts:
Original poster
boundarypushingbastards · 29/09/2023 14:27

Iateallthechocolate · 29/09/2023 14:21

Online dating is like swimming in a sewer sometimes .

I quickly changed to coffee dates only as first dates. Over in half an hour. Table between you. In a public place. Consolation cake if they're rubbish. Option to extend date or make 2nd date if they're OK.

That made me laugh! I love the idea of consolation cake!

OP posts:
Frodofeeling · 29/09/2023 14:30

I know so many perfectly lovely men professionally and socially, but something happens when there's the threat or promise of a relationship/sex.

Last week I had a drink with a man I've known for years. There may or may not be (have been) potential for something else there, but he expressed an interest in something I do quite frequently, so I invited him to join me this weekend. Nothing. Not even a one word response. I don't really care if he comes or not, but this decent bloke with lovely manners and social skills, can't manage to text yes or no?

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 29/09/2023 14:32

beatrix1234 · 29/09/2023 13:41

Maybe he’s not a jerk, maybe he’s been married all his life and completely socially akward, doesn’t know how women in real life operate. I don’t know which one but s scarier TBH. Congrats on the quick escape.

Sorry but any man who thinks he's entitled to sexual activity when meeting for the first time is a useless asshole.

OhComeOnFFS · 29/09/2023 14:34

I'm so glad you had your own way of getting home. It's sad that your idea of going for a good walk with someone, getting to know them and having a great talk with ruined by this utter twat who thought you - or anyone - would want him groping them after fifteen minutes.

Watchkeys · 29/09/2023 14:35

I am bitter at the moment, yes

Then rally against that, not against men. It's like never eating strawberries again because you had 1 bad punnet.

AmazingSnakeHead · 29/09/2023 14:38

I am so angry for you OP, but also grately admire how you responded.

C1N1C · 29/09/2023 14:42

I'm just glad you weren't further into the forest...

Whattodowithit88 · 29/09/2023 14:45

Wanker.
Good thing it was just a walk, imagine having to sit through dinner with it…urrggghhhh.

Devilsmommy · 29/09/2023 14:47

apostrophewoman · 29/09/2023 13:52

I feel your pain! I'm 53 and online dating, and some of the first (only) dates I've had have been excruciating. I usually suggest a dog walk so there's a definite beginning and end, and I can escape pretty quickly by taking the short cuts! I had one like yours, where he was all hands from the get go and actually put his hand up my top and undid my bra strap in a second. He was revolting and it amazes me that they think this is in any way appropriate. He was surprised when I said no to a second date and said 'is that not what men do?'. I said 'not in my world'. I had a first date two weeks ago, which was ok, nothing special, and he texted me the next night at 9pm to see if I fancied travelling 40 miles to his house for a shag. I have a first date tonight. My hopes aren't high from previous experience, but he seems nice and I'm always up for being proved wrong.

Edited

Wow you are brave 😁 hope your first date goes well

Canisaysomething · 29/09/2023 14:55

The key to online dating is to meet in a cafe or bar in a busy place for an hour after work or at a time that means you can still get on with what you would do normally at the weekends. Do that until you feel you can trust them and then normal “dates” can happen.

It’s so much easier to shrug off a creep and a shit date if you haven’t blocked out hours to do it and you haven’t met in a place you feel exposed and vulnerable.

Lucylightning · 29/09/2023 14:57

I’ve got into a couple of dangerous situations with poor date locations. Please can women meet somewhere public!
not at your house or theirs, a forest walk etc
Sorry he was horrible op, it’s scary how many weirdos there are

MysteryBelle · 29/09/2023 15:00

You sized him up perfectly. It’s scary that he got you in an isolated place then made aggressive moves on you. I think you are right to never have anything to do with him again.

Don’t feel that he represents all men, there are good ones. But I can certainly understand how you feel, it does seem that way at times.

Tabitha005 · 29/09/2023 15:03

What an absolute creep, OP. I'm really glad you were able to clearly state your boundaries and get away from him. I'm not sure I'd have the stomach for online dating now (I'm 50 and married and met my husband through an online dating website 17 years ago). I think, if I was single and was thinking about trying to meet someone, I'd hang around in bookshops and libraries looking for quiet, intelligent, literary types who might be at least somewhat able to comprehend that most women don't want to be propositioned and groped within 15 minutes of meeting. I bet I'd still manage to find a tosser, though - from what single friends tell me, there's a lot of them about.

bonzaitree · 29/09/2023 15:04

Make sure you’re safe on dates OP. A walk yes, but in a busy park, not alone. Ask a friend to track you on what’s app and send them a screenshot of the dating profile plus telephone number etc.

You can’t be too careful.

As for this « man » you did the exact right thing.

YukoandHiro · 29/09/2023 15:05

Please please please send him a copy of what you've just posted. He needs to hear it

BygoneDays · 29/09/2023 15:06

Yep. That is every man that ever existed. Ever.

Jl2014 · 29/09/2023 15:10

That’s grim, OP. Sorry you had to deal with that. Good on you though for going back to your car and sticking to your own boundaries. Power to you.

maddiemookins16mum · 29/09/2023 15:12

BygoneDays · 29/09/2023 15:06

Yep. That is every man that ever existed. Ever.

It isn’t.

coxesorangepippin · 29/09/2023 15:15

'in my defence' = admission of guilt