This is how low men's bar for themselves is

[boundarypushingbastards]

So I am just back from a date. Guy seemed really nice when chatting before date, and I was really hopeful. He just seemed like a nice, regular guy. We are both outdoorsy and he suggested a nature walk. I thought this was a great idea. Off we went. Within 15 mins he was like, lets sit down. I did feel a bit 'hmm' as I thought we were doing a walk but ok. So we sit down and he immediately puts his hand on mine. I don't like this as I don't really know him so I move my hand away. He asks me if I want to see him again. I say ' I don't know I have only just met you.' He says he fancies me, I reply, ' You don't actually know me yet'. He asks for a kiss. I say no. He asks three more times whilst moving in closer for a kiss. I give him a firm no each time and by the fourth time I am really pissed off with this boundary ignoring shit and so I stand up and say, ' I've had enough of this.' and start to walk back to my car. He apologises but says, ' In my defence, I didn't actually do anything.'

This has really, really pissed me off. So in his world, because he hasn't actually assaulted me, he's a decent guy and I should give him another chance? Repeatedly ignoring a woman saying, ' No I don't want to', and continually pushing her to relent and using his greater size to move in on her physically, is ok if you don't actually assault her? That's how low his fucking bar is for himself and all men??

Fuck off! We are in our 50s! His other defence was ' Its been a long time I am out of practice'. What? He forgot women were humans with choice and agency in his shagless years? Fuck off!

Oh, and to make it worse, he has two teenage daughters. Is this how he wants men to treat them too?

I'm quite upset. It was a really horrible experience, being ignored and loomed towards like that. Made me feel really dehumanised and really shit.

Out of order. I've had this before and it's really awful. Send him a 'you've been a total penis, this is why.....' then block the spanner.

The saddest thing about men like this is they won't care if someone is like that with their daughters, they view women as objects ti be owned by men. Because he kept asking, he thinks it's okay. It's only if a woman is violently attacked they might get angry but that's their boundary.

This sounds like the kind of pressurising nonsense I experienced on dates age 16/17 OP but not as a grown woman! As you say it just comes across very desperate! Glad you did what you did and I wish I'd had the confidence to do that sort of thing when I was younger.

yep

I came off dating apps for this reason- loads of men would write things like "dont you wish we were snuggled up together watching a film" before I had even met them, if I responded with "not yet , we dont know each other" it was seen as me not 'playing the game' men seem to need women to say certain things and if we don't, then we are cold or whatever. It reminds me of the Caitlin Moran 'men see women as jukeboxes' thing

“An otherwise decent bloke.” ”Otherwise.” List the qualities that make a decent bloke. I’ve met so many many in my life that seem capable of ticking every other box except this one. And they don’t realise there’s anything wrong with it. Even worse, some of them think it makes them charming. It’s such a horrendous set of circumstances.

Actually I completely disagree. Even BEFORE he refused to take no for an answer, the fact that he even thought 15 minutes into the first date was appropriate time to have passed before the first kiss is ICKY.

As a teenager, part of the fun was anticipating that first (possible) kiss at the end of the evening!!! Not 15 minutes in.

Well in his defence, he didn't drag you into the bushes and rape you, so definitely worth giving him a chance on a second date.

What a nice guy

It's a shame you met up with someone who tried to push the boundaries, it's not on no matter what the excuse p. There are loads of good guys out there but I do think if you are bitter at the moment, yes it's maybe not the right time for you start dating again yet.

He's in his fifties, not his seventies. He might not have been born in 1972!

stop excusing this shit behaviour.

"can i have a kiss"
"no"

that is the end of it. FFS

@GingerIsBest Yes I'm sure that's normally the case if the boy is a similar age etc: I'm glad you had nice non rapey experiences as a teenager...😕good for you.

What a creep! I am sorry that happened to you. How many times do women have to say no before they listen! They must all think with their penises!

While I am usually the last one to be crying NAMALT, and I am truly sorry if your experience as a teenager was awful, I stand by my basic point - which is that the "red flag" as it were, was that he even thought that 15 minutes into the date was the point at which they might get physical. Him refusing to take no for an answer was the second red flag and the cherry on a really unpleasant and awful cake.

I'm sorry but if you made it to your 50s without understanding that women need to consent then you are the jerk

What a horrible experience, I’m not surprised you’re upset. He shouldn’t have expected to kiss you at all, let alone persisted despite your response. No excuses.

Im glad you had the sense to walk away when you did op, who knows how far he might have gone otherwise.

Yuck what revolting man. Id have been off too.

@boundarypushingbastards

OP, I've got to an age where I'm afraid my opinion of men is at an all time low, and it wasn't that high to start with. However, I strongly advise you not to go to on country walks or similar with a strange man on a first (or even second, or third) date. Please be very careful. Arrange to meet where there are other people around and CCTV. If possible tell someone where you are going as well. Look after yourself.

pushy is not attractive.. grim

I had a work man in the house earlier, he seemed very pleasant. I made him a tea. He asked me a question I’m currently experiencing a lot of pain and having to use ear drops and can’t hear properly so I said sorry I’m currently having treatment so I am a bit deaf can you say that again. He made some stupid joke about it and then when I didn’t laugh he switched from being pleasant to unfriendly all the friendliness shown that morning just stopped immediately. It’s nowhere near as horrible as what’s happened to you and good for you for telling him. But it’s just the overall entitlement of men like this. Thinking we need to pander to everything even down to those stupid cheer up love it may never happen comments in the street. Those guys think they are the good ones as well.

This all day. That's a lame excuse, made by someone who likely ALSO has zero respect for women and feels entitled to them.

Ignorance isn't innocence. Even if he's been a jerk by mistake, he's still been a jerk.

I really don’t see why we have to accommodate men’s awkwardness. I always feel worse when other women excuse these behaviours.

Exactly.

DH and I were just good friends for a while, he didn't push it at all. I'd just come out of a LTR and just wasn't looking for anything, not with a colleague which he was at first, and certainly not on the rebound. He wasn't my usual type and I didn't think there was a spark at first, he grew on me because we got on so well. It was months before we got together romantically.

In my youth I worked in a male-dominated industry. Observing the sly digs, coded comments and amusing noises and gestures directed towards women colleagues (and me) - all for their fellow gits' benefit, of course - was bad enough then. I imagine it's worse now, with social media.

Tbh anybody asking 'Can I have a kiss?' is a bit of a tell. Bit weird for a grownup? Admittedly I'm a hard case but I'd have been up and away, date over no hard feelings, at the first time of asking.

Wouldn't surprise me if this jerk knew exactly what he was doing and was trying to get a rise out of you. Same on trains when bloke opposite starts fiddling with himself. Don't feed the trolls! Don't be shocked, don't explain, don't read the feminist riot act - just get away like he's a bad smell.

What a creep! I'm glad you stuck up for yourself. Also, I hope you're feeling okay. That sounds really uncomfortable and weird