I don't like what I heard

[Fassbender2020]

My partner and father of my children had a female friend over today. I've been suspecious of them before but he assured me nothing was going on and he'd never leave our children

Anyway, today I was having a nap and overheard something I didn't like. She asked him why he was being weird hugging her differently here and he said what do you mean and she said you aren't hugging me properly like we normally do, you're giving me weird one arm hugs, and sitting away from her and what's wrong with you. It was jokey tone wise but it was obvious she sounded genuine confused. He just got flustered and said nothing and then it just went quiet.

I don't know what to think. Well maybe I do but what does anyone else think?

He needs to cop the fuck on, does he really think you are going to tolerate this silly nonsense, he disrespecting you by having this kind of close relationship with a mother female………how is he not capable of seeing this!
No man who loves his partner continues on with this kind of very close friendship

Yeah it's romantic even if it never gets past hugging. Trust me. And it becomes even more so because it's this little illicit thing between you.

OP
people compartmentalise. Just because he says he could never leave the children, it doesn’t mean he would try his luck elsewhere, and just work at lying convincingly.

Is it still romantic if there’s nothing physical more than a hug?

Yes, in an emotional affair like this, there is a spark, romantic closeness, and reliance. Is this a dealbreaker for you?

Of course, except for the embracing, you have no idea what the physical parameters of their relationship are. They’re attracted and closely bonded, feel entitled to share elements of a boyfriend/girlfriend dynamic, and are out together frequently, so there’s always the chance of physical involvement.

Knowing they’ve been on outings together with the children is troubling.

Well done for assertIng your boundaries and self-respect and taking space, @Fassbender2020. As you signed up for monogamy, it’s entirely inappropriate for him to be in this intimate bubble with this OW he fancies.

He’s got me and if he doesn’t want me then he should go.

He’s not going to say he doesn’t want you. He’s greedy. He clearly wants to maintain both relationships, as together they meet his wants/needs. He will attempt to manipulate you so he can keep the status quo at home, with an affair in plain sight. Don’t allow him to bamboozle you with denial, feigned cluelessness, or deflective accusations (insecurity, unreasonableness, overreacting, jealousy, etc.).

Tell him what you’ll no longer tolerate. Tell him he can keep his girlfriend, but not while married to you, and mean it. Personally, I’d end the marriage and leave them to it.

I didn't really sleep so im exhausted today. I did something crazy last night and looked at his phone and dont feel better for it. He talks to her in some form most days and he apparently had her birthday off with her in the summer and I thought he was at work and her thanking him for her dinner. Texts to her when he's drunk. Why is he thinking of her drunk?! There was also a photo of them on his phone, just sitting next to each other but he hates photos. There's nothing sexual that I've seen and I went back a few months but. I feel sick and need to get my strength up before I tell him what I saw

Yes definitely get some sleep and get your energy up with good food, you’ll be able to think and communicate better when you confront him as he’s sure to be ready with excuses.

Him not telling you about the birthday is a red flag as well. He knew it would bother you so instead of just not doing it he did it behind your back.

It doesn’t have to be overtly sexual, it seems more romantic which in some ways is even worse unfortunately.

It’s one thing a man looking at a best friend and imagining what they would be like in bed together (still not nice) and a man who sees their best friend in a tender loving way, wants to talk or be around them daily and likely puts them on a pedestal even when it bothers their wife (much worse).

As I said I have a close guy friend and had many others in the past - but we certainly don’t talk every day. Not even every week. Even when they’ve been single.

And I wouldn’t spend my birthday with them unless I’d invited a bunch of people out for dinner or something and they were among the guests invited.

I’ve read most of the thread and didn’t see anyone else pick up on it so apologies if I’ve missed it. What also keeps sticking out to me is the ‘he agreed to having another baby after we’d had problems’ bit. This suggests that things weren’t great then either. And as most people know, having a baby to try and make things better is the worst thing you can do as it creates extra stress and pressure.

It’s messy. And I don’t think I could stay in it. It’s one thing having an opposite sex best friend prior to meeting but after being together for a couple of years it’s just a different dynamic.

My husband has a really close female friend he’d known prior to being together - she is also his sister’s best friend and they were all close together - going out clubbing etc. When I came on the scene, I joined them regularly and we all became good friends - it was natural not forced or anything. My husband also acquired a new female friend about 8 years in to our relationship and there was some insecurity on my side because it was new and unknown. I don’t think there were ever any lines crossed but there was a closeness between them that made me a bit jealous. I think my insecurity was probably heightened by some stuff I was going though at the time as well though. Over the years they’re not as close as they don’t work together anymore and she’s now married with kids. They still keep in touch now and then and will go out for a bite to eat about twice a year. It doesn’t bother me at all now because my husband has always been up front and consistently loving and caring towards me. This is where I see the difference between my story and yours. Your husband made the comment about not seeing the kids’ faces every day and not yours. It could be explained away of course but it just seems like the kids are the ONLY important things in this side of his life, if that makes sense.

As I’ve only skim read and may have missed it, what is your relationship like with him otherwise nowadays? Does he put you first at times? Spend quality time with just you? (I know you may not be able to go out if you haven’t got childcare but you can still have a good time when the kids are in bed - film, takeaway that sort of thing). Does he make any effort in your marriage on par with the effort of maintaining this friendship?

If so, it may be worth trying to resolve but if not, I think I’d be cutting my losses and telling him to leave.

I'm sorry but the stuff on his phone...

I really am so sorry. You shouldn't have to unravel all of this when you have a new baby.

It's the he's hiding it thats worse. If he had told me, it wouldn't worry me. Why would you hide seeing a friend on their birthday, I wouldn't care if I knew. I also saw drs appts in his calendar that I was unaware of too. When we fought in the past he shouted something about settling and I thought he was just lashing out in the moment but after reading some replies here it's come back to me and that he really wanted to make us work for the children. At the time I thought he was being a lovely father but I'm hearing it differently now

You know deep down.

He went out with her on her birthday, and lied to you, saying that he was at work. That for me would be another nail in the coffin, a big one.
He loves her. That's very clear. He wants his marriage with you and his relationship with her as well. He wants you to turn a blind eye.

What made you say he loves her?

IMO perhaps it’s not love yet but something that could blossom into that if she let it.

All the little things he does for her, not out of duty or because they have kids together but purely because he wants to.

He maintains this friendship even if it makes you uncomfortable and hides things instead of stepping back from her. To throw his marriage into potential jeopardy without sex being involved - and I don’t think it is - it would have to be something close to love.

I have close male friends and can’t imagine them taking a day off work to spend my birthday alone with me. It just sounds like something a man does if he’s falling for a woman. And the fact he didn’t disclose it to you shows he knows what it looks like.

That said you know your partner far better than anyone on here and have seen them together whereas we haven’t . We could be totally wrong . Definitely best to have a proper sit down chat with him.

I think you know deep down that this isn't an innocent friendship.

I really feel for you. I have been through something similar to this and he was keen to make it seem as though my jealousy was the problem...he let me think and act as though it was...but turned out that it was a completely appropriate response.
Trust your gut.
Don't give him the choices here IMO, the choice it yours...do you want this kind of relationship? he is not honest. He is sneaky and deceitful and there's no way round that. I feel really bad for you. It is NOT your fault. Have your own back. Be calm and don't keep lowering the bar here...I know it is hard to let go of what you want something to be like, but when it isn't that thing in reality...it is better to look it in the face and see it for what it really is.
From what you have said, you are capable of being loyal and committed and consistent. Don't now waste those wonderful qualities on someone who cannot reciprocate. I know that it is easier said than done, but I suspect this guy is going to make you slowly lose your mind. Peace and power to you. xx

One more thing...if you tell him you looked through the phone etc. I suspect this will all get turned on you, it will all become about "I can't trust you - you looked at my phone!" and next thing you'll be apologising. I am NOT saying looking at phones is recommended, but you've done it now because you were getting gaslit and actually it's the information you have found you need to deal with now. He is not going to clear it up for you is what I mean...don't get side tracked by him deflecting onto your behaviour. Good luck to you and your babies. x

I could be completely wrong of course but it’s a feeling from everything you’ve said.
The hugging. Hugging her differently in your home to be “cautious”. Why does he need to be cautious? Her finding the different hugging and sitting apart weird. He’s obviously much more affectionate with her when they are not in your house. That isn’t normal or OK for a married man.
Talking to her almost every day. Texting her when he’s drunk. Alcohol brings down barriers. It’s telling that he thinks of her when he’s drunk.
Shopping together and her buying him clothes (him giving her the money is irrelevant). That suggests a closeness.
The birthday thing is terrible. He took her out to dinner on her birthday, presumably just the two of them. He actually took the DAY OFF to be with her on her birthday, and lied to you about it. That suggests that they are VERY close. Do you think it’s normal for a married person to secretly take a day off to be with their single opposite sex friend? Did he take a day off to be with you on your birthday?
I can’t imagine doing all that with an opposite sex married friend and I’ve never known anyone be that close to such a friend. It’s all too cosy and intimate.
She’s a bit of an idiot if she sees him just as a normal friend while he’s mooning over her. Either that, or as PPs have suggested, they do have a romantic relationship and she believes you don’t mind.

what did you do in the end

although i sadly suspect… nothing

Well that's unnecessarily nasty. I hope you got what you want from that comment and feel better for posting it

that’s answer enough

Hi OP, I was wondering how you were too? And in the nicest way possible? Have you managed to get sorted. X

Yours wasn't spiteful in tone, so thank you for caring to ask. I posted an updated thread, but he lives with her now. I'm not ok but I'm better being without someone who doesn't love me and living authentically

I suppose its not so bad ad you were there... but surely he doesn't hang out in private with her at yours or hers? That's not ok. It's disrespectful af.

Even if I've known a guy my whole life and only ever been friends, I would likely never hang out alone with him in a private residence if either of us had a partner. It's just not ok. It's disrespectful to the partners.

And this woman is what? A work 'friend'. Yeah...they're both taking the fucking piss out of you unfortunately.

Female friends (one or two) are ok but not being alone privately with them. No respectful woman would do that to you either.

As for the specific comment, I would have taken it to mean that he hugs her differently normally. Perhaps he was trying to be respectful to you, worried you wpuld misunderstand if he hugged her the usual way. But it's more likely he's just hiding how affectionate he normally is with her as its inappropriate and he knows it.

You've tolerated bs. So you're getting more bs.

Are you affectionate with him around her? Can you be sure he isn't just telling her you two are 'only together for the kids'. Does he have form for making random female friends and hanging out one on one with them?

Sorry just seen your update.
What a dick he is. I hope she knows he'll do exactly the same thing to her one day.
Not your circus anymore though. Well done on getting away.

Thank you. To be honest, they seem very happy which in done odd way makes it a bit easier so I can't see him doing it to her. He's a different person. He maintains he didn't cheat but it doesn't really matter now. I actually want them to stay together as this train wreck would then not be for nothing