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Original poster

Personality disorder(s)

191 replies

Cherrypop23 · 12/09/2023 20:25

Been with my bf a year and half, and we have recently discussed the possibility of moving in together in the future. Nothing immediate, but possibly over the next year.
As part of this discussion we have had some more serious conversations, and he did disclose that he has a personality disorder with a bad rep. I knew that he was seeing a therapist regularly, but I never pried since he hadn't volunteered any information about it.

Part of me is heartbroken that he never told me before, and I feel somewhat betrayed, but I also feel guilty for thinking this because that's obviously the reason why he didn't tell me. He is stable and reliable, has a very good job, and he is very self aware, incredibly intuitive and attentive most of the time. I know that he has done nothing wrong, and now I feel like a bitch for questioning his personality because of a label :(

He said he wanted me to know because he doesn't want to keep it secret from me, which I appreciate, but now I wonder if this is some sort of a test? Though he has never done anything like that before.

I really don't want to offend anyone and I appreciate that I do not have first hand knowledge on this topic. One of my friends is dating a guy with a PD and he is constantly threatening suicide etc and she is a wreck so maybe I am just tarring a whole group with one brush. I am talking cluster B here, but any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks

OP posts:
Justgonefishing · 16/09/2023 09:55

from the NHS website "In the past, antisocial personality disorder was thought to be a lifelong disorder, but that's not always the case and it can sometimes be managed and treated.
Evidence suggests behaviour can improve over time with therapy, even if core characteristics such as lack of empathy remain."
i would like to remind people that there is no "test" for someone to be diagnosed with a PD, it is ultimately a diagnosis based on clinical assessment and judgement. Are we to write off everyone who has a diagnosis as never being able to have a relationship for the rest of their lives or perhaps we could treat people as individuals?

PaintedEgg · 16/09/2023 10:05

treating this person as an individual - he has multiple charges

in my eyes that would be a reason enough to run - even without his diagnosis. in my opinion it's too great of a risk

mushroomushroom · 16/09/2023 10:11

Exactly, and the OPs boyfriend was deemed to have exhibited at least three of these patterns of behaviour:

•	repeatedly breaking the law
•	repeatedly being deceitful
•	being impulsive or incapable of planning ahead
•	being irritable and aggressive
•	having a reckless disregard for their safety or the safety of others
•	being consistently irresponsible
•	lack of remorse

Do any of those sound like qualities in a good partner?

@PaintedEgg's comment here was absolutely spot on

You know what other prejudice exist and is very strong? the one against victims of domestic violence who knew about their partner's violent past but wanted to give them a chance. They can often hope for very little sympathy because "they should have known.."

Dolores87 · 16/09/2023 10:13

PaintedEgg · 16/09/2023 09:53

On the other hand this is someone who has a multiple charges in the past and requires ongoing treatment to stay stable

18 months is not that long, especially if nothing major has happened in that time to "test" how well is this therapy working

This is someone who already was violent in the past - this leads to a serious concern that any lapse in treatment may lead to this person becoming violent again.

You know what other prejudice exist and is very strong? the one against victims of domestic violence who knew about their partner's violent past but wanted to give them a chance. They can often hope for very little sympathy because "they should have known.."

But he hasn't been violent to her. We don't know the context for the assaults (I mean are we taking DV or bar fights here for example?) and he is in active treatment, he is engaging with it and he seems to have the awareness that he must carry on doing so.

If this was a "my boyfriend has disclosed this PD and is telling me he no longer needs to stay in treatment" my opinion would be one of caution but that is not what is happening here.

Furthermore PDS are misdiagnosised really frequently and she hasn't seen any pd behaviour in him so far this guy deserves to be treated like an individual not a diagnostic label he was once given of which apparently means he shouldn't be able to have meaningful relationships in his life no matter how engaged he is with treatment.

Thmssngvwlsrnd · 16/09/2023 10:19

manymanytimes · 16/09/2023 09:34

@MrsMcisaCt

We're talking about anti social personality disorder here, not random disorders, this one in particular. It's been clear from the very beginning that OP was talking about either narcissistic PD or ASPD, then confirmed ASPD.

Nobody has been called a psychopath on this thread, but the boyfriend has had it mentioned about him as that is what his disorder is.

www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/

You're the one who used the word psychopath - "tell a woman she shouldn't date a literal psychopath".
So yes, people with PDs have been called psychopaths on this thread - by you!

SquirrelSoShiny · 16/09/2023 10:39

OP - as others have said you have the right to walk away from a relationship even if the person is doing the therapy etc.

I urge you to search for Firekitten's threads. I understand how difficult it can be to walk away from love bombing men - they really do seem like the love of fairytales. Unfortunately just like fairytales they are not the reality.

The truth is when your partner says therapy is helpful he likely means that it makes life easier for him to 'blend in' and avoid disruption to his own life e.g. a prison sentence.

18 months is a very short time.

sallytarific · 16/09/2023 11:03

I casually dated a guys with BPD.
He told me about it fairly early on because it's part of the BPD game - testing how strong your boundaries are and your support network.

If you explained the situation to your friends and family and asked them for their honest advice and support what would they say?
3 possibilities:

  1. Let's assume it would go like the majority of the posts on here. If so then you have a strong and supportive network around you and know your worth and that you should not get involved with someone with BPD who waits 18 MONTHS to tell you. You would walk away and move on.
  1. Your F&F network isn't very strong or supportive, they aren't worried about the situation or interested. They don't particularly care or are invested in your future. They say, give it a go, he seems nice and he's had therapy (what are you moaning about?). You don't have much faith in the value you have and feel you might never find a better relationship than the possibility of this one, even with all the risks. You stay.
You likely will be destroyed by him.
  1. You don't ask your F&F because you don't want to reach out to them. You think it will all be ok. (You don't reach out to them because you have low self-esteem). You are therefore the perfect victim and have passed the test for being his emotional punching ball until he destroys you and moves on.

Mine was a very casual thing, no chance of me being involved with him long-term as I was in the middle of a drawn out divorce and leaving the country in the next year. I was safe because of those 2 external forces. I also have prior knowledge of BPD as a female friend was diagnosed with it. The diagnosed friend deliberately stays single because they know they are unlikely to be have a happy healthy partnership. They throw themselves into work and friendships and hobbies and have a good life. That would be over if they tried another relationship, it's just something they can't do. Just like an alcoholic, they can't just have a drink and pretend to be a normal drinker.

Back to me, if I wasn't protected by my circumstances he would have destroyed me I'm sure. I had a glimpse of his life and he seemed to gain all his esteem by seducing woman after woman (he was a great shag to be fair!) and hanging onto them all, giving them the bare minimum to keep them in his circle. Needless to say they were all vulnerable, not on the surface, they seemed successful, but they had real issues underneath. Probably like me, but I was lucky, I got away.

manymanytimes · 16/09/2023 11:25

@Thmssngvwlsrnd you know you're right, technically not everyone who has ASPD is a psychopath, apologies to the boyfriend.

manymanytimes · 16/09/2023 11:35

Of all the things on this thread that I think might actually be stigmatising and inappropriate was this, in the context of a female friend with BPD.

"They throw themselves into work and friendships and hobbies and have a good life. That would be over if they tried another relationship, it's just something they can't do. Just like an alcoholic, they can't just have a drink and pretend to be a normal drinker."

People with BPD can absolutely have good relationships with others, wtf 😅 avoiding relationships when you're actively suffering is one thing, but saying people with BPD are like alcoholics and can never be in a relationship is absurd and unhelpful.

Also, the OPs boyfriend has ASPD, not BPD.

PaintedEgg · 16/09/2023 11:56

@Dolores87 are you for real? so she should wait until he is violent towards her, otherwise she's discriminating? He was violent, repeatedly, and charged for it. If you want to date criminals - go ahead. Just make sure you have a food dentist.

Sarcasm aside, if someone needs an active treatment to now get involved in violent bar fights then this person is absolutely not safe as a potential partner

Original poster
Cherrypop23 · 16/09/2023 12:12

@SquirrelSoShiny I have read them now...

OP posts:
SquirrelSoShiny · 16/09/2023 12:14

Cherrypop23 · 16/09/2023 12:12

@SquirrelSoShiny I have read them now...

I'm really interested in whether or not you see any parallels with your situation. I wish you all the best whatever you decide x

Original poster
Cherrypop23 · 16/09/2023 12:18

SquirrelSoShiny · 16/09/2023 12:14

I'm really interested in whether or not you see any parallels with your situation. I wish you all the best whatever you decide x

Show quote history

Yes, I see some even though I don't want to

Thank you

OP posts:
Bonniethewestie · 16/09/2023 12:59

To be clear I was the one that mention suicide - in relation to Caroline Flack and the whole ‘Be Kind’ outwave.

My point was that the same people who came on here and told OP to ‘avoid at all costs’ ‘run a mile’ before even knowing which PD she was speaking about were being extremely bigoted. In my eyes some of the comments on here verged on hate speech against people with PD’s and I wanted to call that out in the same way I would of there were racist or homophobic remarks.

My point was:
a) You absolutely cannot tarnish everyone with the same brush. If you have had a bad experience with someone with a PD that does not prevent other people with PD’s growing/changing/being wonderful parents/partners. As I’ve said already PDs are a grouping of behaviour traits usually driven by past trauma/issues growing up. Therefore, they are not a physical illness and completely capable of people changing. It would be extremely distressing for someone with a vulnerable history to come on here and read people saying everyone should avoid them at all costs/dump them based on a label from many years before and no knowledge of their individual circumstances.

b) I suspect the same people who make these remarks probably go about their lives pretending they care about mental health and would support their friends or family in a crisis. However, they are spewing out hate about people that don’t fit their definition of an acceptable mental illness.

I just thought at one point the thread was taking a dark turn. People were telling me and others that our advice was ‘wrong’ without any explanation. I understand that people will have had bad experiences and wish to warn others. However, you cannot treat every person with a PD the same. That is prejudiced and wrong.

Bonniethewestie · 16/09/2023 13:11

There was one response I did report which was @omgsally saying this:

‘Its not discrimination. It’s not prejudice. It’s not a mental disorder. People with PDs are typically abusive and choose their victims carefully. They put a mask on in public and then reveal the monster in private. It’s a choice to behave in this way, even if it is as a result of trauma.’

I think that is incredibly prejudiced and damaging thing to say. To treat every PD the same is so uneducated and everything she/he wrote was just completely wrong.

It also was completely missing the point of the fact these are mental health conditions driven by trauma. It’s a high percentage of people that have PD’s so we aren’t talking about ‘monsters’ we are talking about people that you know and likely just need some help. Many of the PD’s are ones you grow out of as you age and life might become more stable - the NHS website mentions that for BPD and ASPD.

Having the support and care of a loving partner can be a big reason why someone previously with mental health struggles might completely change and be in the right place to engage in therapy and overcome their past.

Not every PD or personality are the same. You can’t just make sweeping generalisations based on someone you knew or a tv programme you’ve watched.

Dolores87 · 16/09/2023 13:46

PaintedEgg · 16/09/2023 11:56

@Dolores87 are you for real? so she should wait until he is violent towards her, otherwise she's discriminating? He was violent, repeatedly, and charged for it. If you want to date criminals - go ahead. Just make sure you have a food dentist.

Sarcasm aside, if someone needs an active treatment to now get involved in violent bar fights then this person is absolutely not safe as a potential partner

If he is in active treatment, stays in active treatment the ASPD is a cureable condition according to the NHS guidance. So she is not waiting for him to he violent to her... and he may never ever be so. Should we leave all relationships because they might one day be violent to us? There is nothing in this thread that implies boyfriend is a risk currently other then he has a history that he has the self awareness to do something about to stop it happening again.

The amount of prejudice and stigmatisation in this thread is unreal.

People should not be forever defined by their past actions if they actively do something about their behaviours and take responsibility for it and change and it very much seems like this guy has done that.
When we are talking about PDs we are usually talking about traumatised people. The idea that someone could experience symptoms in line with a personality disorder and then be permanently tarnished with that diagnosis even when they fully engage in treatment and are no longer behaving in line with their diagnosis is awful and shows a serious lack of compassion. Is he meant to life his whole life without meaningful relationships because of his past behaviour no matter how much he engages in making sure he doesn't behave like that again?

If the guy starts to show damaging or red flag behaviour then yes she should leave but basically ditching her boyfriend because he disclosed a disorder she hasn't even noticed he has for 18 months and that he is actively engaged in treatment for isnt fair. I mean she can and should leave if she wants but I feel bad for the guy.

Bonniethewestie · 16/09/2023 13:58

sallytarific · 16/09/2023 11:03

I casually dated a guys with BPD.
He told me about it fairly early on because it's part of the BPD game - testing how strong your boundaries are and your support network.

If you explained the situation to your friends and family and asked them for their honest advice and support what would they say?
3 possibilities:

  1. Let's assume it would go like the majority of the posts on here. If so then you have a strong and supportive network around you and know your worth and that you should not get involved with someone with BPD who waits 18 MONTHS to tell you. You would walk away and move on.
  1. Your F&F network isn't very strong or supportive, they aren't worried about the situation or interested. They don't particularly care or are invested in your future. They say, give it a go, he seems nice and he's had therapy (what are you moaning about?). You don't have much faith in the value you have and feel you might never find a better relationship than the possibility of this one, even with all the risks. You stay.
You likely will be destroyed by him.
  1. You don't ask your F&F because you don't want to reach out to them. You think it will all be ok. (You don't reach out to them because you have low self-esteem). You are therefore the perfect victim and have passed the test for being his emotional punching ball until he destroys you and moves on.

Mine was a very casual thing, no chance of me being involved with him long-term as I was in the middle of a drawn out divorce and leaving the country in the next year. I was safe because of those 2 external forces. I also have prior knowledge of BPD as a female friend was diagnosed with it. The diagnosed friend deliberately stays single because they know they are unlikely to be have a happy healthy partnership. They throw themselves into work and friendships and hobbies and have a good life. That would be over if they tried another relationship, it's just something they can't do. Just like an alcoholic, they can't just have a drink and pretend to be a normal drinker.

Back to me, if I wasn't protected by my circumstances he would have destroyed me I'm sure. I had a glimpse of his life and he seemed to gain all his esteem by seducing woman after woman (he was a great shag to be fair!) and hanging onto them all, giving them the bare minimum to keep them in his circle. Needless to say they were all vulnerable, not on the surface, they seemed successful, but they had real issues underneath. Probably like me, but I was lucky, I got away.

What on earth 😂😂😂

IHateLegDay · 16/09/2023 14:15

I'm going to hide this thread now as it's becoming incredibly upsetting but can I just say to the person who called it the 'bpd game', BPD is not a 'game'. It is incredibly debilitating for the sufferer.

To the person saying 'PD sufferers are typically abusive and violent' myself nor any of the people I know with PDs have ever been either of these things. I have been with my husband for nearly a decade and we have a healthy communication, never argue and I have NEVER been violent with anyone.

This thread is proof that the stigma is very much alive and the understanding of PDs is very limited.

Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

PaintedEgg · 16/09/2023 14:46

@Dolores87 I disagree, not on account of the PD, but on the account that his charges were repeated. It was not a one off. Even without knowing of the diagnosis I would never advise someone to be in a relationship with someone who has been violent in the past on multiple occasions that led to criminal charges

I could be co-workers or friends with someone like this, but never get in a relationship with such person, I would never put my safety on the line in the name of "everyone deserves a second chance". Besides, he clearly used up quite a few of those chances already.

Frogger8395 · 16/09/2023 14:57

basically ditching her boyfriend because he disclosed a disorder she hasn't even noticed he has for 18 months and that he is actively engaged in treatment for isnt fair.

She should continue dating someone she doesn’t want to date because it’s not fair. Ffs.

She doesn’t owe him a relationship.

Dolores87 · 16/09/2023 16:06

PaintedEgg · 16/09/2023 14:46

@Dolores87 I disagree, not on account of the PD, but on the account that his charges were repeated. It was not a one off. Even without knowing of the diagnosis I would never advise someone to be in a relationship with someone who has been violent in the past on multiple occasions that led to criminal charges

I could be co-workers or friends with someone like this, but never get in a relationship with such person, I would never put my safety on the line in the name of "everyone deserves a second chance". Besides, he clearly used up quite a few of those chances already.

To me, if all those occasions were in the same time period in his life I would lump those together as a turmoil time and a past he can regret and be active in dealing with and change his behaviour and I don't think people's past should be held forever against them if they are commited to and do change..

I would think differently if he had multiple charges like ten years apart of something for example as that shows no change.

PaintedEgg · 16/09/2023 17:20

@Dolores87 if it wouldn't bother you - that's your choice and your risk. But don't try to guilt-trip someone into taking the same risk.

There are certain actions that will cast a long shadow on how people perceive you - violence, criminal records, cheating, addictions, financial debts... it's not unreasonable to write off any relationship once you learn someone has this kind of history.

There are plenty of people who are willing to look past any mistakes someone may have made when they were younger - shame that these people get zero sympathy when their good faith comes back to bite them

omgsally · 16/09/2023 17:30

Bonniethewestie · 16/09/2023 13:11

There was one response I did report which was @omgsally saying this:

‘Its not discrimination. It’s not prejudice. It’s not a mental disorder. People with PDs are typically abusive and choose their victims carefully. They put a mask on in public and then reveal the monster in private. It’s a choice to behave in this way, even if it is as a result of trauma.’

I think that is incredibly prejudiced and damaging thing to say. To treat every PD the same is so uneducated and everything she/he wrote was just completely wrong.

It also was completely missing the point of the fact these are mental health conditions driven by trauma. It’s a high percentage of people that have PD’s so we aren’t talking about ‘monsters’ we are talking about people that you know and likely just need some help. Many of the PD’s are ones you grow out of as you age and life might become more stable - the NHS website mentions that for BPD and ASPD.

Having the support and care of a loving partner can be a big reason why someone previously with mental health struggles might completely change and be in the right place to engage in therapy and overcome their past.

Not every PD or personality are the same. You can’t just make sweeping generalisations based on someone you knew or a tv programme you’ve watched.

I did go on to clarify that I was specifically referring to narcissists and psychopaths.

Radiodread · 16/09/2023 17:40

@Bonniethewestie i do think you’re failing to recognize what lots of people said, which is that comments about personality disorders were specifically about ASPD and NPD. Active and untreated (and let’s face it, NPD is essentially untreatable in most cases) those disorders can put intimate partners at significant risk of violence and emotional abuse. Do you not accept that? You’d be absolutely mad to shack up with someone with active correct diagnoses of either of these disorders.

SquirrelSoShiny · 16/09/2023 18:14

Radiodread · 16/09/2023 17:40

@Bonniethewestie i do think you’re failing to recognize what lots of people said, which is that comments about personality disorders were specifically about ASPD and NPD. Active and untreated (and let’s face it, NPD is essentially untreatable in most cases) those disorders can put intimate partners at significant risk of violence and emotional abuse. Do you not accept that? You’d be absolutely mad to shack up with someone with active correct diagnoses of either of these disorders.

This x 1000. I'm actually fucking sick of people half reading threads and then leaping on their own agenda which has NOTHING to do with what the OP has written.

If anything people with Borderline/ EUPD (like Firekitten who I keep mentioning ) are MOST LIKELY TO BE THE VICTIMS in ASPD / NPD relationships.