Personality disorder(s)

[Cherrypop23]

Been with my bf a year and half, and we have recently discussed the possibility of moving in together in the future. Nothing immediate, but possibly over the next year.
As part of this discussion we have had some more serious conversations, and he did disclose that he has a personality disorder with a bad rep. I knew that he was seeing a therapist regularly, but I never pried since he hadn't volunteered any information about it.

Part of me is heartbroken that he never told me before, and I feel somewhat betrayed, but I also feel guilty for thinking this because that's obviously the reason why he didn't tell me. He is stable and reliable, has a very good job, and he is very self aware, incredibly intuitive and attentive most of the time. I know that he has done nothing wrong, and now I feel like a bitch for questioning his personality because of a label :(

He said he wanted me to know because he doesn't want to keep it secret from me, which I appreciate, but now I wonder if this is some sort of a test? Though he has never done anything like that before.

I really don't want to offend anyone and I appreciate that I do not have first hand knowledge on this topic. One of my friends is dating a guy with a PD and he is constantly threatening suicide etc and she is a wreck so maybe I am just tarring a whole group with one brush. I am talking cluster B here, but any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks

If you go through all the responses on here…

• you have people telling OP to run a mile before even knowing which PD she is talking about or any other information that in her first post
• you have people telling her the biggest red flag was him not revealing this earlier on

Can you imagine being with someone for a year and a half in a happy relationship. You are about to make the next step to move in together, you reveal your past diagnosis off your back and it’s clearly something which is big for you to share. Your partner ends it with you because of that label.

Then we have people on here wondering why he didn’t say it earlier? Gosh I don’t know maybe because he’s experienced or read some of the stigma that comes out of peoples mouths… maybe because he feared OP would read or hear misinformed views and dump him instantly.

Yet we still have people saying there’s no prejudice or stigma. It’s all ok because they were only saying dump him if it was certain PD’s etc.

They’ll be so many people that read this thread and feel absolutely crushed by it. People who aren’t responding but now feel scared to speak out and reveal something. People that in the UK at least struggle to get any mental health support at all with our broken system.

If we don’t take this thread down then I really hope some people reading it will click on the link I shared to minds website and read about the controversy’s in the PD diagnoses and stigma attached.

Anyone with a mental health struggle might be vulnerable to suicide and reading the things people say on here could cause someone very real and serious harm.

Anyone remember the ‘be kind’ comments after Caroline’s suicide? Are we saying be kind but run a mile and don’t engage from anyone with a mental health disorder? Bet some of the worst people on this thread are the same people that would share a mental health slogan and tell people to ‘reach out’.

If anyone has read this thread and feels triggered please know that some of the views on here are based on people’s own bad experiences. They do not reflect the reality of the thousands of different people who have a diagnosis. I hope everyone is ok and please don’t feel alone in being upset to read this stuff. ❤️

But, there is also an element of people not reading the OP’s posts properly. Anyone who is considering a long term relationship with someone (correctly) diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder by a medical professional is putting themselves at huge risk. There is a very, very slim chance things will work out ok, and a very high chance they will become the victims of physical or emotional abuse. NPD can destroy intimate partners’ lives.

ASPD is a quite contested diagnosis but generally people currently diagnosed (ie not a historic diagnosis that has been addressed) are going to have behaviours and traits that are incompatible with a loving, mutually supportive intimate relationship, such as complete disregard for others’ welfare, law breaking behaviour, violence or aggression, be manipulative etc.

both NPD and ASPD have a high degree of overlap with psychopathy.

In this case I wonder is the diagnosis recent, and still considered appropriate? Is the professional who diagnosed it appropriately regulated and impartial? If yes to all those, then you should be hugely wary.

I genuinely don’t think that anyone on here thinks all personality disorder diagnoses are an automatic banning offence. But some personality disorders are more intractable or treatment resistant and have potentially much more serious consequences for intimate partners. I’d argue anyone diagnosed with NPD is possibly the worst candidate for an intimate relationship, ever.

ASPD it would depend on how long ago, whether the diagnosis still pertained and was accurate.

It is quite odd that you’ve noticed nothing amiss in 18 months together unless your radar is no good, or the diagnosis is wrong.

What do the people who care about you think of him? Really and truly? Are they good judges of character?

I do appreciate that people diagnosed with personality disorders could read this and conclude things are hopeless, and I’d just like to say for me at least, that I don’t think that’s generally the case. I’m sure the vast majority of people diagnosed with personality disorders have experienced neglect, abuse, trauma or terrible family dynamics, and therapy can be much more effective for some PDs or patterns of behaviour, however you want to refer to them.

Anything with potential elements of psychopathy, extreme disregard for others’ needs and recklessness endangerment of others’ physical or mental safety is a bit different though. That is why the OP is getting strong reactions.

Sorry but if you start a relationship & have quite a big issue to share with your new partner you do not wait 18 months to tell them

I'm thinking can't have kids, ex was abusive, have an ongoing cancer issue, you get these things out in the open in the first 1-2 months to make sure the other person has all the information at hand to decide whether they want to proceed

In this case he's not mentioned it until the OP is in love & emotionally committed to him. Sorry but that's not right or fair & seems utterly selfish

@Bonniethewestie

There's a few points in your post I'll reply to. I can see where you're coming from, and I do appreciate the points you're making, but some of them are misguided. I'll be the first to admit there is massive stigma associated with a diagnosis of PD, with repercussions one can feel in pretty much every aspect of life. Aside from social/romantic situations, I myself have been excluded from psychiatric coverage on my health insurance when I lived abroad because I disclosed my previous diagnosis of BPD. I know there is stigma, and I hate it.

That said, a lot of my replies will be advice to others with BPD (who I'm assuming you're talking about, and not those with ASPD or NPD), and to OP.

> Can you imagine being with someone for a year and a half in a happy relationship. You are about to make the next step to move in together, you reveal your past diagnosis off your back and it’s clearly something which is big for you to share. Your partner ends it with you because of that label.

This is different for me because once my clothes are off it is obvious I have had mental health difficulties and we need to have the conversation early on, but I can't imagine getting to 1.5 years without a person I was genuinely into not knowing about my past difficulties. If you have BPD or any sort of emotional dysregulation disorder or a history of depression, my advice would not be to hide it infinitely from your partner/potential partners because you're afraid of judgement. Living your life in fear someone will leave you when they discover "the real you" is only feeding into your problems. Early on mention you had troubles when you were younger/currently have troubles. You don't want to be with someone who is on a different wavelength and will judge you for it anyway. If someone breaks up with you because of your mental health difficulties then they weren't the right person for you anyway. Always bear that in mind.

> They’ll be so many people that read this thread and feel absolutely crushed by it. People who aren’t responding but now feel scared to speak out and reveal something.

I hope not. Even in the initial OP she says he has a personality disorder with a bad rep, very clearly meaning anti-social PD or NPD. None of that read to me like it was about BPD. When I was actively ill and very much exhibiting symptoms of BPD, I went out with a guy for years who was in the same boat, and we were terrible for and to each other, I didnt think OP was referring to BPD in her boyf, and I have experience of BPD in men. It was clearly about either NPD or ASPD.

> Anyone with a mental health struggle might be vulnerable to suicide and reading the things people say on here could cause someone very real and serious harm.

The same might be said for more than half of the posts on mumsnet. I don't think encouraging vulnerable young women into the arms of sociopaths or narcissists is quite in line with the harm reduction you're pushing here. To anyone with BPD or a history of depression, do your best to protect yourself in the best way you can now. A big part of that is learning about who you should let into your life, and we tend to be more vulnerable to abusers than most, given our particular struggles. You don't need to be a bleeding heart and stay with someone who is a narcissist or a psychopath because you're worried about hurting them. Take care of yourself because not everyone will. Be smart. This advice is for everyone, not just those with additional vulnerabilities.

OP, there's not a chance in hell I would be with someone who had either NPD or ASPD. To me, him telling you he has it is a manipulation tactic, he already knows you'll be with someone who has a violent past and can demonstrate extreme anger, which is something most women wouldn't be comfortable with. If you stay with him, be really wary. I personally wouldn't move in with him but would continue to see how it goes while maintaining my own space.

There's a very good book called the sociopath next door, have a read of it OP. Good luck.

One thing I wonder: you say he’s chill when everyone else is upset. Is it possible that you’re mistaking ‘lack of empathy’ for ‘chill?’

Do these situations directly impact him, or are they other people’s problems?

I agree this thread is useful and should remain.

I also think how women present /impact those around them is different to men.
Men (in general) are more prone to mismanagement and abusiveness.

I think it's completely valid we have several women posting their experiences and highlighting the prejudice. However, women's lived experience of men with PDs is equally valid.

Personally, the age and status gap and the letting you get 18m in to disclose doesn't sit well with me. At all.
Neither does the PD.

this was exactly the situation my DM was in and she was sure everything was dandy and they married.
the next 20 years were a hot mess downhill. He had a traumatic childhood but that doesn't change the fact he was a terrible husband father and person. I spent years being told by outsiders how wonderful and funny and charming he was. He had therapy and meds and was still a monster. His behaviour didn't really start to escalate/get out of control until 10years in and my DM was heavily pregnant.

i would be looking to exit. Asap.
If for whatever reason I stayed, I would shelf the idea of children completely and forever.

That's my opinion based on my lived experience with my own father.

@Bonniethewestie thank you. I appreciate your posts very much. I am OK, just a little put out by some of the replies I read yesterday. I am definitely not suicidal. I really appreciate your concern for me, and for others with PDs reading this thread x

@Cherrypop23 how does his life look like now? what major stresses he has?

by the sound of it his condition is now well managed, but consider the effort and resources it takes to keep him stable when things sound, overall, pretty good.

Someone asked if you would like to have children - would you? Because this could be a big trigger for future issues. Any serious life event - someone's death, illness, being made redundant etc. can make things worse.

It may be that he will cope well...or he may not. Or he may cope in very unexpected ways - for example, by distancing himself from source of stress.

Finally, I am also of an opinion that 18 months is too long to wait to tell someone. Sure, it may not be a topic for a first date, but something one should mention when things get serious. Yes, there is a lot of prejudice towards personality / mental health disorders, but its an important information for a relationship.

This really does remind me of Firekitten's threads - which I won't link to and would respectfully ask that people don't resurrect by posting on them - BUT they are definitely worth a read OP. A lot of people gave personal accounts of their dealings with these men. I actually wondered if you ARE Firekitten because of the similarities and if you are I hope you are well x

The OP made it clear he has either NPD or antisocial PD within the first few posts on the first page.

PP responses were made with this information in mind. I think people are getting mixed up with other mental health illnesses, which are completely different.

I think people are right to warn the OP off going further with a narcissist or antisocial BD (psychopath[ .
It's not discrimination to not want to take that on and she absolutely should proceed with caution.
Why would anyone want to be in a loving relationship with someone who has no empathy and has already been violent ?

There’s discrimination and stigma against all of the PD’s so I don’t agree that only ASPD and NPD have a bad rep. I think if you google any of them you can read horrible things if you click on the wrong page.

I think it comes down to this, he clearly has violence in his past. What is the nature of that? Are we talking about fights with other guys after a few drinks? Or completely beating someone up? Was this multiple times or one offs? How long ago? Does he feel regret/shame about this? Even on the ASPD NHS page it says people often grow out of it by their 40s.

If he had a turbulent childhood then it’s not a huge surprise he might have struggled to deal with anger in his teens/early 20s. However, has having therapy helped him grow from this? Is he a different person?

I wouldn’t write anyone off but I would be very alarmed by the violence in his past and for me that would be a difficult thing to accept. OP has always known about this though and it sounds as if the answers he’s given her to the above have meant it she’s been able to accept his past.

A label is just a label. It is just grouping behaviour together to help connect some dots/enable doctors to understand the person and how best to help based on other people with similar behaviour. Ultimately it’s understanding his past which matters here. What he’s been through as a kid/teen, what he’s done, how he’s grown.

There are plenty of bad people out there without a PD diagnosis. There are plenty of great people with one.

Will he be a good dad? I don’t know but you definitely cannot decide that purely from a label put on someone potentially many years ago.

I have to assume that you have had a long-term relationship/marriage/children with a personality disordered person as you sound knowledgeable and experienced. How did you do it?

That was in response to Bonniethewestie. I need to find out how to tag people

These comments are breaking my heart.
I have BPD and used to suffer horrendously. I am now stable and have been for 5 years and you couldn't even tell that I have it.
I live a normal life and make healthy choices.

People are so quick to judge personality disorders and make out like we're all monsters and that's why so many people (including myself) don't disclose this info.
A very small handful of people know that I have a PD and it's not because I'm trying to trick them/lie to them (like some comments have said) but because people are too quick to brand us as dangerous.

If you've been with him for a year and a half and have no concerns so far then what's the problem?

Any PD that caused him to be violent to the point of police charges, would have me walk away. No matter how long ago. Because as a woman I'm more physically vulnerable, so would want a life partner who didn't need therapy or medication to control anger/violence/anti social behaviour. I do think women need to put their long term safety/security as a priority over love. It's only been 18 months - he's waited a long time to tell you this crucial information. Which to me feels manipulative and i'd wonder what else he was hiding or manipulating. Like, what will he admit once you're married, and then once you have a kid and it's too late to easily walk away. Also how was he comfortable keeping such a big secret for so long - that's unnerving. Means he's good at putting up a front....

Women marry men who only start abusing them years after the fact. You've only known him 18 months and he kept a big secret the entire time. He isn't the only man you'll ever love. Always put your safety first.

There's a lot of bigotry on thus thread. Can I just point out fir all the posters saying 'oh well I'd understand about BPD but not ASPD' there's actually massive gender differences sadly in the diagnosis people end up with. Far more women than men end up with a BPD diagnosis and far more men than women end up with ASPD diagnosis. There is often ALOT of crossover in the type of ongoing childhood trauma that causes these disorders but they way girls and boys tend to be raised make it far more likely they will end up with these different diagnosis despite it often being a very similar issue. So while your out there sympathising with the women you know who struggled with BPD in their youth and have managed to grow into adulthood with a good level of insight and control over their disorder perhaps consider that this too can be the case for men who had early diagnosis of ASPD due to childhood trauma. How can you write off entire groups of people so easily because you know someone who was abusive who happened to have that diagnosis?!?

As it's ASPD i would not plan a future with this man
It's possible you don't know his personality at all
They are devoid of empathy and most emotions except anger and hate
They present the version of themselves they want you to see
They are manipulative and mirror and learn to project feelings they don't feel
Yes I have experience of a man with ASPD

There's a lot of bigotry on thus thread.

No. There isn’t. The op is not prejudiced to want an emotionally healthy partner.

Bigotry is the possession or expression of strong, unreasonable prejudices or opinions.

lets take the personality disorder out of the equation. This is someone who has a violent history, who has been arrested because of these actions.

Yes, he has done the work and seems to be coping well.

but there is a very high probability that he will slip again. It's not an unfair bias to say that people who were violent in the past have higher probability of being violent again

Imagine a thread about someone who in the past had multiple charges related to drugs. Yes, its possible that this person became clean and is doing great in life - but when you decide to enter a relationship with this person you are taking on a risk that they will relapse, and if you are going to take this risk it has to be an educated decision.

A PD is exactly that and very difficult to treat without years of therapy and commitment from the person with the PD.

I have just given many years to a person with a PD, never again. Their predatory behaviours are horrifying when you finally realise what's going on and I had a terrible fight on my hands to get out. They stop at nothing, I lost a lot of money but I got past that just to get out. Thankfully I never had children with this individual.

I agree that choosing an intimate partner is one of those areas where people absolutely have to be able to discriminate on any grounds, or they are not freely choosing the relationship. Nobody owes anyone the benefit of the doubt, or a second chance, when taking the risk of sharing their home, finances, and body.

I would not move in with someone who disclosed violent assault charges in his past. If he told me I was a bigot for not continuing with the relationship on this basis, that would constitute coercion - and would make me think I was totally right in not wanting a relationship with this person. Because he would be demonstrating that he didn’t give a toss about my boundaries, preferences, autonomy, or right to protect myself. He only cared about his own feelings of hurt and anger.

Nobody owes anyone an intimate relationship if it doesn’t suit them. It’s not ‘fair’ but that’s how it goes. I wouldn’t move in with someone who has kids or was allergic to cats. Not because I think people with kids or allergies are bad, or because I’ve been influenced by ignorant smear campaigns about people with kids and allergies and need to educate myself. But because I get to choose who shares my life, on whatever grounds feel right to me. And people will choose against me, too. And that will hurt. But that’s life.

Completely agree with @uncomfortablydumb53 i am convinced my ex has ASPD along with HFA. The most quiet, reserved, slightly aloof man you’d ever meet. Has a stable job and lifelong friends.

You would never think for one second this man grew up in trauma, got into physical fights all through his teenage years, drinks to excess, has the most vicious temper, callous tongue, is completely devoid of empathy, laughs in your face when you’re upset and honestly doesn’t seem to give two shits about anyone but himself.

He led me right up the garden path and only for I was so used to dealing with a very domineering mother I would not have survived. Even to this day, years later, people empathise with him and not me for the demise of our marriage. He is a master of playing the victim.

Please think very carefully about what you’re getting into OP. I’m not saying it has to be all doom and gloom and credit where credit is due, he is getting help and has self awareness, two things my ex refused to have. I wish you well OP.

Sounds like ASPD to me. Be careful OP.

I am not the same poster!
But I will check their thread