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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Personality disorder(s)

191 replies

Cherrypop23 · 12/09/2023 20:25

Been with my bf a year and half, and we have recently discussed the possibility of moving in together in the future. Nothing immediate, but possibly over the next year.
As part of this discussion we have had some more serious conversations, and he did disclose that he has a personality disorder with a bad rep. I knew that he was seeing a therapist regularly, but I never pried since he hadn't volunteered any information about it.

Part of me is heartbroken that he never told me before, and I feel somewhat betrayed, but I also feel guilty for thinking this because that's obviously the reason why he didn't tell me. He is stable and reliable, has a very good job, and he is very self aware, incredibly intuitive and attentive most of the time. I know that he has done nothing wrong, and now I feel like a bitch for questioning his personality because of a label :(

He said he wanted me to know because he doesn't want to keep it secret from me, which I appreciate, but now I wonder if this is some sort of a test? Though he has never done anything like that before.

I really don't want to offend anyone and I appreciate that I do not have first hand knowledge on this topic. One of my friends is dating a guy with a PD and he is constantly threatening suicide etc and she is a wreck so maybe I am just tarring a whole group with one brush. I am talking cluster B here, but any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks

OP posts:
Cherrypop23 · 15/09/2023 22:40

I would like to have children, but only if I think that it's the right thing to do. Right now I'm not sure if it would be so it's not an option because I'd want to be sure.

I'm sorry that the thread is causing upset, which is nothing I had wanted. I can ask whether it should be closed if it causes harm.

OP posts:
Siameasy · 15/09/2023 23:00

I find the attempts by some posters to make your thread all about them and to use emotional blackmail to try to get you to feel guilty to be red flags and sadly typical of my experience with PDs.
No I wouldn’t date someone with a PD and you’re within your rights to reject anyone for any reason. I avoid them as intimates whether friend or lover.
Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t talk about reality. That is a slippery slope and something narcissists love to do.

Rheia1983 · 15/09/2023 23:38

OP, you have not caused any harm. You had a valid question and people responded to it with their experiences and thoughts and, in my view, it is an interesting as well as important thread.

As for your partner, I find what you have revealed so far to be concerning. I judge the fact that he waited 18 months to disclose that he has a diagnosis of ASPD very negatively and agree with some previous posters that this is manipulative. If you wish to continue this relationship, please proceed with caution and care.

I do not say this lightly. I have psychological issues due to childhood abuse, the resulting trauma and depression and make sure to disclose this to potential partners within a few weeks of meeting. In my view, not disclosing issues that may affect the relationship in a serious manner is dishonourable since this takes away the other person's informed choice on whether to proceed with a relationship.

Please remember that you can reject a relationship at any time for any reason. If you do not feel safe or if you feel misled, manipulated or undermined in any way, you are free to walk away.

IHateLegDay · 16/09/2023 00:53

Siameasy · 15/09/2023 23:00

I find the attempts by some posters to make your thread all about them and to use emotional blackmail to try to get you to feel guilty to be red flags and sadly typical of my experience with PDs.
No I wouldn’t date someone with a PD and you’re within your rights to reject anyone for any reason. I avoid them as intimates whether friend or lover.
Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t talk about reality. That is a slippery slope and something narcissists love to do.

Or maybe people are just trying to explain that it's ridiculous to tar every PD sufferer with the same brush?

junbean · 16/09/2023 05:42

You’ve been with him long enough to know if he treats you well or not. He’s dealing with his issues very appropriately. I don’t know many men who actively work on themselves or go to therapy. Everyone has issues but few actually do something about it. I think you should go forward with an open mind- keeping an eye out for issues, but hoping for the best, like anyone would. It would have been better if he had been more upfront and sooner, but I think it’s understandable given the situation.

MenopauseSucks · 16/09/2023 06:19

I suffer from bipolar & am in remission - not been hospitalised for over a decade, stick solidly by my treatment regime. In spite of all this, I'm not able to work.
When I started a serious relationship, he came along & met my psychiatrist & treatment team so he could see how things can be.
I would ask for information regarding his previous convictions - what they were for, was he jailed, etc. He should bring you to see his therapist to discuss his progress so you can see how things are now. Talk to the ex girlfriend & see how he treated her.

Siameasy · 16/09/2023 07:42

IHateLegDay · 16/09/2023 00:53

Or maybe people are just trying to explain that it's ridiculous to tar every PD sufferer with the same brush?

They’re not though. Suicide has been mentioned, for instance - very manipulative behaviour and further outlining why she should steer clear.

Vijia · 16/09/2023 08:13

The clear cold unwelcome fact is that men with LD or not are always charming and lovely in the courtship faze, they would have to be, otherwise no woman would marry them.

It's down the line when things change. Pregnancy is usually the starting point when women are at their most vulnerable.

The amount of DV that goes on is staggering. Then the woman feels trapped into staying when with young DC as it's so hard to leave.

The 2 women who get murdered every single week that does not make the news because it's so common by their partners often saw a red flag or 2 but chose to ignore it, or didn't believe it could happen to them or were in denial or were in love... the end result is always the same, children left without their mum's, families, lives, destroyed.

And the cruelest cherry on top? Once their prison terms are up, these male perpetrators get to resume being daddy having removed the woman from the picture. They also often have their DC visit them with their grandparents in prison visiting times.

Not only that, but irony of all this is that women often think they are protecting their DC by staying, when in reality the chances are higher that he will remove you altogether from their lives if he has a spur of the moment burst of anger .

As that is all what it takes with a man capable of assault. A spur of the moment loss of control which no one can predict.

Basically a ticking time bomb. Same when babies are very young, at their most vulnerable to attack by men who have a lapse of control.

The thing is you will never know when he may be triggered.

Domestic situations are triggering because family life can be stressful even for the calmest of personalities.

Add PD into the mix then you don't know what will happen. You are playing with fire.

Op you sound thoughtful, young, kind and want to help him and try to understand him. You are the absolute perfect victim to a nightmare down the line.

Of all the men in the world you have been hooked by someone who is no good for you or your future babies as you will always have to put his needs first and not theirs.

If you choose not to heed the advice you have been given because you are blinded by your love and devotion to a much older man who has already manipulated you and has a serious P.D has a prison record and is love bombing you, then all I can say is that you must wish for the drama that will undoubtedly unfold, so prepare yourself.

Vijia · 16/09/2023 08:14

PD*

Vijia · 16/09/2023 08:15

Phase*

MrsMcisaCt · 16/09/2023 08:35

Siameasy · 16/09/2023 07:42

They’re not though. Suicide has been mentioned, for instance - very manipulative behaviour and further outlining why she should steer clear.

That was mentioned by someone who was trying to help others understand that not everyone with a PD is some sort of evil person, but a person with emotional problems. I don't think you are being fair.
This thread reminds me that although people say nowadays "talk about your mental health problems ", it very much depends what that problem is. Depression and anxiety = acceptable to admit to, personality disorders = avoid admitting to at all costs.

PaintedEgg · 16/09/2023 08:41

@MrsMcisaCt that's not what that post was about. It literally suggested that people with PD may become suicidal reading some of the replies

some of these posters also suggested that it's discriminatory and ableist to have doubts about relationship with someone who has a serious disorder that affects their emotions and behaviour, and who has already proven themself to be violent in the past.

So what would be the appropriate course of action? Pretend none of this matters and nothing bad will happen despite this man's own history suggesting otherwise?

Dolores87 · 16/09/2023 08:50

Feeling suicidal or having suicidal ideation is not by itself manipulation

Zanatdy · 16/09/2023 08:56

A friend of mine was married to someone with borderline personality disorder and him it presented with self inflicted cutting / suicide threats. She went through hell with him for years, never leaving as she felt he needed her. Then he left her for one of the nurses he met during an admission. So for me, it would definitely make me question if I wanted to move in with someone with a personality disorder. If he’s never disclosed it before then he needs to tell you a lot more and be honest with how it affects him day to day. You can’t keep that from someone you live with, hence him telling you now. But I’d have liked to have known this way before 18 months

PaintedEgg · 16/09/2023 08:58

Dolores87 · 16/09/2023 08:50

Feeling suicidal or having suicidal ideation is not by itself manipulation

but saying to not discuss experiences of relationships with people with these disorders or someone may feel suicidal is very manipulative

Dolores87 · 16/09/2023 09:07

Some of the comments here extend past sharing experience and are pretty stigmatising. There's definitely a line being crossed in places. I don't think acknowledging that such stigmatising commentary does increase the likelihood of suicidal feelings in someone diagnosed with a condition is manipulation.

Manipulation would be someone coming along and saying "if you talk about this I will kill myself" and as far as I can see that hasn't happened.

Siameasy · 16/09/2023 09:13

Dolores87 · 16/09/2023 09:07

Some of the comments here extend past sharing experience and are pretty stigmatising. There's definitely a line being crossed in places. I don't think acknowledging that such stigmatising commentary does increase the likelihood of suicidal feelings in someone diagnosed with a condition is manipulation.

Manipulation would be someone coming along and saying "if you talk about this I will kill myself" and as far as I can see that hasn't happened.

If people feel suicidal based on comments on Mumsnet that aren’t even about them then that is further evidence that they are unstable, a liability and to be avoided.

manymanytimes · 16/09/2023 09:21

To be honest, as someone diagnosed with BPD years ago I've found the "someone might kill themselves if they read this" and "you shouldn't tell a woman not to date a literal psychopath because it hurts my feelings" to be pretty manipulative and childish.

Shutting down conversations because you have made it about you and your hurt feelings, and completely derailing the thread so that the OP is now apologising for asking if she is wrong to be nervous about her older boyfriend revealing he has a diagnosis of ASPD and a history of criminality, violence, and assault is just bloody ridiculous.

OP, don't be guilted into staying in a situation that is not right for you by randomers on the internet who can't seem to visit an advice board without somehow making it about themselves and their issues. Their issues are not your responsibility. Take care of yourself and if something is making you take pause, as it clearly has done because you posted here, pay very special attention to it. Your intuition is priceless.

PaintedEgg · 16/09/2023 09:22

@Dolores87 but "don't talk about it negatively or someone may harm themselves" is very manipulative as it effectively stops people from discussing even their lived experience

Just like not disclosing one's very serious disorder for 18 months...yes, there is a lot of prejudice and it's understandable that people don't share their medical history with everyone. However, you partner is not "everyone", and OPs boyfriend was very sneaky with what he shared and how he shared it.

So comments about tendency to be manipulative are not entirely baseless

MrsMcisaCt · 16/09/2023 09:27

manymanytimes · 16/09/2023 09:21

To be honest, as someone diagnosed with BPD years ago I've found the "someone might kill themselves if they read this" and "you shouldn't tell a woman not to date a literal psychopath because it hurts my feelings" to be pretty manipulative and childish.

Shutting down conversations because you have made it about you and your hurt feelings, and completely derailing the thread so that the OP is now apologising for asking if she is wrong to be nervous about her older boyfriend revealing he has a diagnosis of ASPD and a history of criminality, violence, and assault is just bloody ridiculous.

OP, don't be guilted into staying in a situation that is not right for you by randomers on the internet who can't seem to visit an advice board without somehow making it about themselves and their issues. Their issues are not your responsibility. Take care of yourself and if something is making you take pause, as it clearly has done because you posted here, pay very special attention to it. Your intuition is priceless.

Not everyone with a PD is a psychopath though. That's the point.
If people are upset by being called a psychopath when they are not, then that's understandable and they are allowed to express that opinion.

manymanytimes · 16/09/2023 09:34

@MrsMcisaCt

We're talking about anti social personality disorder here, not random disorders, this one in particular. It's been clear from the very beginning that OP was talking about either narcissistic PD or ASPD, then confirmed ASPD.

Nobody has been called a psychopath on this thread, but the boyfriend has had it mentioned about him as that is what his disorder is.

www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/

Dolores87 · 16/09/2023 09:39

Wow what a horrendous comment.

Dolores87 · 16/09/2023 09:40

Dolores87 · 16/09/2023 09:39

Wow what a horrendous comment.

This was aimed at the unstable, liability and to be avoided comment above. For some reason the quote didn't work.

Dolores87 · 16/09/2023 09:45

PaintedEgg · 16/09/2023 09:22

@Dolores87 but "don't talk about it negatively or someone may harm themselves" is very manipulative as it effectively stops people from discussing even their lived experience

Just like not disclosing one's very serious disorder for 18 months...yes, there is a lot of prejudice and it's understandable that people don't share their medical history with everyone. However, you partner is not "everyone", and OPs boyfriend was very sneaky with what he shared and how he shared it.

So comments about tendency to be manipulative are not entirely baseless

I don't think anyone is implying that you can't talk about it negatively at all, but the implications in some of these comments that someone with a pd diagnosis who is in treatment and seems to be doing well in it, seems to have a lot of self awareness and who hasn't behaved dangerously in the whole 18 month relationship should now be ditched and avoided because they have a diagnosis is stigmatising and harmful.

I mean I'm not surprised he hasn't disclosed it until now considering alot of these comments. He runs the risk of people running for the hills before they even get to know him no matter how much he engages with treatment, and when he has disclosed it his girlfriend of 18 months who hasn't seen any dangerous behaviour in him in line with a pd has taken to an internet forum to discuss whether she should leave him 😕

PaintedEgg · 16/09/2023 09:53

On the other hand this is someone who has a multiple charges in the past and requires ongoing treatment to stay stable

18 months is not that long, especially if nothing major has happened in that time to "test" how well is this therapy working

This is someone who already was violent in the past - this leads to a serious concern that any lapse in treatment may lead to this person becoming violent again.

You know what other prejudice exist and is very strong? the one against victims of domestic violence who knew about their partner's violent past but wanted to give them a chance. They can often hope for very little sympathy because "they should have known.."

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