When you hear the phrase ‘She won’t let me see the children’ what do you think?

[Gardenerboo]

This is my ex husband’s narrative to anyone who will listen and it’s simple not the case.

We have 2 teenagers who have (at present) chosen not to see him following abuse.

Although my priority is obviously the children, I have moments where I feel angry at the injustice of what he is telling people. I know it shouldn’t matter, but it’s hard.

There is actual peer reviewed research which shows children are better off with two involved parents.

But what about in the case where they aren't very involved?

There is similarly research that shows that the further apart the parents live, the better the educational outcomes - as ever, it's not simple.

In my case, I think that having occasional visits, but not expecting much from their father is the best way - he's not going to put in the effort, so it's best not to raise their expectations!

@Newbutoldfather Of course children are better off with two involved parents. But this entire thread is about men who claim they have crazy ex's. And in most cases like this, women are either desperate for their ex's to be more involved and he's just using her "crazy' as an excuse OR, if she is resistant, it's because of poor care/other issues.

The "odd McDonalds" is also NOT what I was referring to. I'm referring to the women on MN who regularly have children returned to them who, over the previous 48 hours have not had a single piece of fruit or vegetable, have not been washed, have not been put to bed and so return tired, dirty, hungry and undernourished.

That he has chosen not to see them. Or he is an abusive nightmare. Or-occasionally, that the children's mother is an abusive nightmare. But I'd need receipts.

I am not criticising individual parents for how they share their children, as long as they feel that they are doing their best. Parenting can be hard enough without believing that there is only one way that ‘works’.

I do think, however, that the MN demographic judges men badly. All the divorced fathers I know parent pretty well, care about their children, provide balanced meals, give them bedtimes, help with homework etc (including me).

Maybe I live in a rare section of society, or maybe MN, like all social media, has an intrinsic bias. Or maybe the truth is somewhere in between….

I always think "if he wanted to he would"

@Newbutoldfather "All the divorced fathers I know parent pretty well,"

But they also don't tell people that "she won't let me see the children." By definition.

I wonder what the full story is...

yes, this.

I know a number of men who are divorced and great parents - involved, engaged etc.

Those men are NOT the men that OP is asking about. They aren't bitching about their exes or claiming they can't see their children because of their ex.

90% of the time I think 'I wonder why'.....

However a male friend of mine is close to getting full custody of his 5 year old daughter due to her mothers abusive behaviour. It has slightly changed my perspective but not much. He's been through hell and the courts are now finally seeing the mother in her true light.

My question would be 'and what have you done to try rectify this?'

The answer would tell me all I need to know.

My sons dad is a massive selfish twat. I will have no problem stopping my son from having contact with him if needs be in order to put my son first. I can guarantee he would tell everyone what an evil mother I am. However those that know me and are closest to me know the truth and that's all that really matters.

I take it with a massive pinch of salt, and ask about legal proceedings.

When I met my ex, he told this story, and he was right, his ex DID try to write him out of the pic.

BUT, it was his mother pushing and paying for contact, the same way she had walked all over his ex, and it was me doing the most of the work when we did have them. When the battle was won, it was still his mother having them when she wanted, me doing the work. Then when I left, he gave them over to his mother entirely.

Now with my DC, mummy dearest isn't fussed as she has the older ones, so he never bothered even when begged until she hit her teens and is less hard work. Hasn't stopped him telling her and everyone we know it's because I withheld contact, destroyed his mental health and blah blah. Same old excuses and victim mentality he gave me years ago, and the latest victim does all the work and runs round feeling sorry for him. Silly cow.

One does't have to be a violent abuser to continually go and camp outside someone's house and continually beg and plead to see the kids. You said that is what you would do and I am telling you, that wouldn't end well. You can't stalk and try to control another person. You would also probably get charged with harrassment and trespassing and stalking and it woudn't be behaviour that a judge would see in a good way if you were trying to fight for custody.

My EX isnt interested in DD, he has his new girlfriend and her kids to focus on. But he tells anyone who will listen i am using DD as a weapon and stop him from seeing her. No, he just cant be arsed.

He did say to me once that he will take me to court, i actually laughed my head off, told him that he wont as he is too fucking lazy and doing that requires effort. Honestly he is that lazy that if he did try for court access he would bring the forms round for me to fill in for him.

yet his new girlfriend bangs the drum about how her kids dads need to be in their life and how its good for kids but is happy to be with a useless man who cant be bothered to put the effort in to see his daughter.

So when i hear it i just think "tell the real story"

By the general rule of the thumb: she doesn't let me see the children is most of the time followed by "and I don't put to much effort in seeing them", "but I'm not going to tell you that because it makes me look like a prick".

There are of course exceptions to that rule. In your case is the error is 0%

I think, "She probably has good reason."

See also, "my dc are my life" all over Instagram and Facebook. Usually by men who couldn't tell you the name of their' child's best friend, teacher or favourite book.

It doesn't remotely surprise me. Abusive men are more likely, in my experience, to go to court because the process allows them to still exert an element of control over their ex partner than the average lazy deadbeat.

And it's very rare for a father who does go to court not to get some access. Especially if the abusive was "only" aimed at the mother, not the children.

*I say "only" because I think that's how the courts see it. Not how I personally see it.

I largely assume hes barely tried.

Thank you. Reassuring to know. I understand that it shouldn’t matter to me but it’s good to know that most people appreciate that there are other sides to the story.

I think when it's teens it can be not so much 'parental alienation' as 'mum has taken 500 steps back and is leaving it to me and without her facilitation I am at a fucking loss how to connect with these teens who are not making my life particularly easy.' So I do amend my previous statement a little, it's not always abusive fuckwittery.

However I know from experience that indifference harms a child almost as much as abuse and out and out neglect.

And mum has taken a step back and said it’s up to me and it’s a bit boring at Dads and she’s in a strop when I get bone and makes comments about dad in a passive agressive way and she said it’s up to me if I see him because she’s not getting involved so I won’t bother and I’ll ignore dad when he contacts me until I can be bothered.

i can absolutely see this. I was that teen .

honestly i usually think 'yeh right, what's the real story' but that's probably because my ex does this . DD decided 2 yrs ago she didn't want to see him anymore when she was 12 and i backed her up.

I think 'bullshit' I'm always wary of men who say 'my ex won't let me see the dc' there are very few woman who won't at least try to sort child contact and if it's ever withdrawn it's usually for good reason.

Children are often used as weapons.

It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to work out the numerous ways this can be manipulated.

This