When you hear the phrase ‘She won’t let me see the children’ what do you think?

[Gardenerboo]

This is my ex husband’s narrative to anyone who will listen and it’s simple not the case.

We have 2 teenagers who have (at present) chosen not to see him following abuse.

Although my priority is obviously the children, I have moments where I feel angry at the injustice of what he is telling people. I know it shouldn’t matter, but it’s hard.

I do think (so shoot me !) than there is a major and maybe biological difference between men and women here

if someone toxic tried to prevent me from seeing my kids I’d hunt them down and use eveything in my arsenal to protect my kids

some men (not all I hasten to add) so seem to be able to ‘live’ without their kids in a way I couldn’t . I wouldn’t be able to

i think some men are able to function without their kids , whereas most women can’t

I'd think that there's either a major reason why he's not allowed to see his children or that he can't be arsed to fight for access and doesn't care about seeing them. Bad father either way.

Oh Christ yes my ex put in his statement to the court that I was restricting access, and in particular wasn't letting him see his elder son on a Sunday.

He has never requested access on a Sunday.

He cancelled access more often than I did (and I only did it when the kids were sick, or when he requested with short notice and they already had something on that they wanted me to take them to)

Massive history re-write/sob story created in his head. He just can't be bothered.

I think it's rarely (but not never) the truth.

@Thisisworsethananticpated this is sort of how I feel. Nothing would stop me seeing the children.

His behaviour and accusations make no sense to me.

The cases where single mothers deny good dads contact out of spite are so rare I would assume he is lying. Either he was abusive, can’t be bothered or only wants to see the kids on his terms.
I knew a man who claimed he ‘wasn’t allowed’ but what he really meant was that his ex wouldn’t permit him anymore to randomly swoop in and disrupt their lives, pick up the kids for a couple of hours of Disney dad and then dump them home late at night with no firm plans to see them again. He could not get it into his thick head that this unpredictability was harmful to his young children who ended up very distressed when they then didn’t hear from him for weeks.

I reserve judgment until I know more. In a lot of cases, the man is a twat and has done bad things. In others, the woman is withholding access as punishment. This happened in my brother's case. He is a good, kind man and a very loving dad. My ex SIL used their son as a weapon against him. As the son got older, he realised what was happening. He and his dad are now very close and the best of friends.

I think "Oh really? And what do you want from me because I wont believe another word you say to me".

Young children I would have real concerns as there's no reason not to see primary school aged children if you've sensibly gone through the courts unless the man has been abusive / unreasonable etc.

Teens not so much. I think at that point it's much more nuanced. Whilst the ex may never say that a teen cant see their father I definitely think that there may be an element of trying to keep the peace and not upset the mother if the relationship between the parents is poor. Whilst the mother may never have stopped a teen seeing a father there's an element of what she hasn't said, which may influence a teens decision not to see their other parent. I think saying that it's up to teens to choose to see their parent and that they have a phone can can make their own plans can be very simplistic, a teen often feels stuck between 2 parents and the lack of encouragement can make them feel like they'll upset their mum if they continue a relationship with their dad and so they'll default to not seeing dad so as not to upset mum. Then time goes on and it makes it harder and harder. I would however, expect dad to be continuing to keep the lines of communication open with texts, bday presents, attempted calls etc. if he wasn't doing that then yes, I would have a problem.

My ex tells anyone who listens I took his daughter away.
Funny that.. he only has 2 hours of supervised contact ordered by the court.
Sure you can picture why that is.

I would assume that there must be a bloody good reason why! It's not often mothers refuse access to the children just out of pure spite. I heard this a few times back in my dating days before I met my husband. I wasn't even interested in sides of stories, if men started slagging off their ex or complained they had no access to their kids it was the last I saw of them.

Sorry you're going through this OP but most people will see through that BS. Anyone that stays around him long enough to listen to it isn't worth bothering about.

I immediately assume narcissist, abusive, possibly an alcoholic, and if she really “won’t let him” then there is a very very good reason that the courts have said no contact, or that the woman herself has decided it is best for the child, after sporadic contact that was damaging for the child, or that he actually has the option to see the child but just doesn’t bother.

Big fat red flag for me.. I have a similar story sadly and my delightful exH has painted a very different picture to anyone who'll listen. It used to really p*ss me off but now I have realised that it says more about him than me. Kids soon grow up and realise who was there for them!

I've said this before on MN but local to me, there was a man who was well known and well liked at work, hard worker etc and said 'my wife won't let me see my kids, she's unreasonable etc'
A few weeks later a video went viral of this man as he'd been at home, wife called the police on him and he was removed from the house for violence etc, calling her names, threatening her. The amount of comments under that video from people who knew him who had NO idea.
It really goes to show you there are always two sides to a story. When I hear 'she won't let me see the kids' I always do keep in mind that the man is giving me the side of the story he wants me to hear, not necessarily the full story.

I have seen the odd woman withhold access in this sort of situation - but usually because she's extremely angry for some reason (the woman who came home with her six month old baby from a day out to find her H in HER bed with another woman, springs to mind). Often that anger is because he wants access but won't pay even the bare minimum (I know LOTS of these - one friend's ex gave her £5 per week and honestly couldn't understand why she hated him).

It's not okay but I'm still actually on the side of the women in these situations. The lack of payment especially - a woman who can't house and feed and clothe her children is NOT seen positively by society, but a man who abdicates all financial and practical responsibility seems to get a ridiculous pass.

@ANiceBigCupOfTea this is almost precisely what we’ve been living. Ex is very charming, works in a caring role. The mask has only ever slipped at home.

I wouldn’t judge either way. If it was a friend, I would listen to the whole story. If an acquaintance, I would just think it was none of my business.

It could be a pack of lies but it could, equally, be genuine. Children who ‘choose not’ to see their dads have often been fed a pack of lies after an acrimonious split.

It is a sad outcome, whatever the cause, as children benefit greatly from two involved parents.

I'd be suspicious from all I've heard. It's rare for mothers to withold children seeing their father unless there's a very good reason - men say this because it feeds into the stereotype that women are mean and manipulative and do nasty things just because they're in a strop. I suspect a lot of separated mums would like their kids' father to have them some of them time so he can see them and also so she has some time off, but so many dads seem to fight for an agreement, then mess their exes around until the kids end up with her full time anyway.

I would say I agree with most, there's a lot of men that do this for their own gain. However, I am in that situation now, my marriage was abusive and has turned into post separation abuse.

I have not had any contact with my children in five months, and to make things worse, neither has the entire family on both sides. They are isolated.

All because I said enough to the manipulation and being used, so she took everything.

It's the "two involved parents" I find so difficult because mostly these men aren't. Women I know who are resistant to letting their ex's have their DC are usually women who have legitimate reason to be angry - as mentioned above - or are concerned about the quality of the care their children will get in their ex's care. I've lost count of the times I've read posts from women on here who are endlessly frustrated because their children come back from 3 days with their dads having eaten nothing but McDonalds, not had a shower, no homework done etc etc etc.

I had a friend growing up whose father had been physically abusive to their mother but who still saw them EOW. They hated it, not least because while at his house, they were not allowed to attend social events, call their friends or do anything. As we got older, we all just got into the rhythm of planning parties or activities around their mum's weekend and accepted that they were MIA for 2 days a fortnight. I bet that their mum would have LOVED to have simply stopped the DC from going to him...

Same. Pre-MN I'd have probably thought that she was terribly unfair, but having been on MN for a while I'd automatically assume he's possibly a bit of a dickhead after sympathy.

I know of two recently separated fathers. One is going through a court battle to get more access to his DC. His ex doesn't let him have overnights and he's only allowed to see him if he goes round his ex-in law's house. He's doing everything he can to be able to see his kids. He is a bit of an oddball, but his heart is in the right place with the kids.

The other one I could imagine saying something like this "oh woe is me - I've been kicked out of my house and have to live in this crappy flat and I haven't seen or spoken to the kids for ages" translates to "I walked out and left my wife with no warning, thought I was being generous to offer to continue to pay half the mortgage but nothing towards the one child who is still a minor, and when my DC do get in touch to say that they are visiting my new hometown I ignore their messages completely because I'm too busy shagging my new girlfriend."

That's he has chosen not to see them, can't be bothered to see them, or a court has said he's allowed to see them...

NOT allowed!

I do know a situation where the mother is that manipulative and nasty and I still wouldn't assume that a man saying he was being denied visitation was being truthful.

@SavBlancTonight ,

I am sure there are fathers like that but how rare or common is hard to know, as all we have is anecdote.

There is actual peer reviewed research which shows children are better off with two involved parents.

I wouldn’t judge the odd McDonald’s or different standards of tidiness (it’s not always mothers who are tidier) but clearly parents have to do their best to help their children develop into kind educated adults.

I am not sure there is any point in stereotyping in this (although I guess that is the point of the thread!). It is impossible to know the reality. I do think, with young children, if a father is not actively pursuing contact through the court system (if he claims to have been denied it), then I wouldn’t think much of him.